Confirmed Trade: [OTT/CBJ] Duchene and Bergman for Abramov, Davidson, 1st, and Conditional 1st - Part 2

[Kakko Schmakko]

Their great haul was getting saddled with Spooner and Beleskey lol

Spooner was going to be an RFA and was a positive asset at the time and Beleskey was 50% retained. So Beleskey buried in AHL is only about 1 mil cap hit.

Spooner had a great finish to last season and would have brought a decent return if traded before they re-signed him to overpriced contract. In the end he got us Strome who has been very solid for us.

I think Beleskey will get to play more next season still a solid player and will possibly be traded closer to the deadline for something.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Not a bad deal on its own merits. If you start to account for sunk cost past trades then you have to account for what it cost to get Turris, which was a song.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Not a bad deal on its own merits. If you start to account for sunk cost past trades then you have to account for what it cost to get Turris, which was a song.

I think you are contradicting yourself. Who cares what they paid for Turris. Turris was a high draft pick, but he never lived up to the expectations.

 

[grindline]

I keep reading the same couple of things that are factually wrong and it is probably the time to clarify them.

1. Columbus is not about to enter a rebuild. Yes Panarin and Bobrovsky are leaving but the roster is not a bunch of AHLers without them. Many of the best players still have room for growth (Dubois, Jones). Some people seem to have failed to notice the Islanders are top of their division after Tavares walked so it is not as simple as ‘lose a great player...get worse’. Plus we are not likely to want Bob on the contract that he wants, which is why we have not been sending him offers like we have with Panarin.

2. Buying Duchene does not automatically mean keeping
Panarin. If we trade Panarin for equal to what we used in the Duchene trade, then we have rebalanced our forwards by swapping a wing for a centre (as well as giving us a player far more likely to resign). Yes Panarin is a better player than Duchene but it isn’t like we got rid of Gretzky and brought in Zach Kassian as his replacement.

 

[jonlin]

Bold move by Jarmo. I think its a great trade for Columbus. Now they are ready for a playoff-run.

 

[BelovedIsles]

This should, once again, be a reminder to all. You do not acquire bluechippers w rentals, unless there’s an anomaly GM.

Modest return for Ottawa. They’ll get a 15-20 first rounder. Unless they strike gold again, aka EK in the mid first, this pick won’t materialize into anything close to Duchene. Secondly, they didn’t return an A level prospect.

More proof that rentals don’t cost as much as fans think. Who knows, good chance he re-signs. IMHO, if you are in the playoff mix, more often than not, it’s better to augment. Most of the picks or prospects don’t materialize into much compared to the player you just acquired.

 

[Frenzy31]

I think this is a ballsy move by the Jackets. It likely raises the return for Bread and it means they can compete and not have to trade him for scraps.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

I think you are contradicting yourself. Who cares what they paid for Turris. Turris was a high draft pick, but he never lived up to the expectations.

No.

 

[The don godfather]

This should, once again, be a reminder to all. You do not acquire bluechippers w rentals, unless there’s an anomaly GM.

Modest return for Ottawa. They’ll get a 15-20 first rounder. Unless they strike gold again, aka EK in the mid first, this pick won’t materialize into anything close to Duchene. Secondly, they didn’t return an A level prospect.

More proof that rentals don’t cost as much as fans think. Who knows, good chance he re-signs. IMHO, if you are in the playoff mix, more often than not, it’s better to augment. Most of the picks or prospects don’t materialize into much compared to the player you just acquired.

Yes I agree the prospects were not overwhelming to say the least. Dorion I'm sure tried but what I would have wanted was foudy instead of those 2. It should have been sweet and simple . Foudy and 1st round pick for duchene. That would have been a better more effective package of sens instead of getting maybe prospects. Foudy was the solid more upside blue chip .

 

[DaStinger]

Spooner was going to be an RFA and was a positive asset at the time and Beleskey was 50% retained. So Beleskey buried in AHL is only about 1 mil cap hit.

Spooner had a great finish to last season and would have brought a decent return if traded before they re-signed him to overpriced contract. In the end he got us Strome who has been very solid for us.

I think Beleskey will get to play more next season still a solid player and will possibly be traded closer to the deadline for something.

If you think Beleskey is an NHL asset that will net anything other that a negative return I'd like you to come down to the beach with me and take a look at this sand I'm selling.

 

[Avsboy]

Someone please start keeping track of the Matt Duchene spiderweb of trades. All of the pieces involved in his two trades and what they all turn into.

I sense the Sens' first will be the best out of everything, but I could be jinxing it.

 

[Eso]

I dont really understand why Columbus did this. Outside of getting to a Conference final, you lose your now 3 best players to UFA and your first round pick. That is a lot for a team that still is imo in that 5-10 spot in the East.

The wise move would have been to trade Panarin and Bobs and have 3+ first round picks going into the draft.

They want to loose 3 top UFAs instead of 2. It's obivous, isn't it? Because loosing of Torts would make much sense...

 

[SensFactor]

This should, once again, be a reminder to all. You do not acquire bluechippers w rentals, unless there’s an anomaly GM.

Modest return for Ottawa. They’ll get a 15-20 first rounder. Unless they strike gold again, aka EK in the mid first, this pick won’t materialize into anything close to Duchene. Secondly, they didn’t return an A level prospect.

More proof that rentals don’t cost as much as fans think. Who knows, good chance he re-signs. IMHO, if you are in the playoff mix, more often than not, it’s better to augment. Most of the picks or prospects don’t materialize into much compared to the player you just acquired.

Duchene is a rental and likely to walk especially when the blue jackets are either eliminated from the playoffs and or eliminated in the first round.

 

[shello]

Whatever happens to the Jackets it's nice to see them going for it

 

[JoemAvs]

Whatever happens to the Jackets it's nice to see them going for it

I disagree. I just believe the price is too high. Even if they somehow get out of their division, I don't think they would have much chance against whoever comes out of the Atlantic.
And that only if they keep all of Panarin, Bob and Duchene as rentals for the run. Too steep of a price IMO.

That said. I think the worst case scenario might just be Duchene re-signing with them while Bob and Panarin walk. That has the potential to lock them into mediocrity for another 5+ years (while costing them yet another 1st).
Not good enough to consistently make the playoffs or even threaten to win a round and not bad enough to ever get enough talent through the draft realistically to change it.

That was always a risk once Panarin and Bob had their feet out of the door but I worry that re-signing Duchene would only make it worse.

That said. Now that Duchenes performance has no impact on the Avs anymore, I wish him all the best. If the Jackets make it to the playoffs, I will probably pick them as my Eastern team and root for them to go as far as possible and for Duchene to light the world on fire and prove everyone wrong.

 

[JT Kreider]

I disagree. I just believe the price is too high. Even if they somehow get out of their division, I don't think they would have much chance against whoever comes out of the Atlantic.
And that only if they keep all of Panarin, Bob and Duchene as rentals for the run. Too steep of a price IMO.

That said. I think the worst case scenario might just be Duchene re-signing with them while Bob and Panarin walk. That has the potential to lock them into mediocrity for another 5+ years (while costing them yet another 1st).
Not good enough to consistently make the playoffs or even threaten to win a round and not bad enough to ever get enough talent through the draft realistically to change it.

That was always a risk once Panarin and Bob had their feet out of the door but I worry that re-signing Duchene would only make it worse.

That said. Now that Duchenes performance has no impact on the Avs anymore, I wish him all the best. If the Jackets make it to the playoffs, I will probably pick them as my Eastern team and root for them to go as far as possible and for Duchene to light the world on fire and prove everyone wrong.

Which is why I believe Jarmo included the second conditional pick to seal the deal. Dorion was probably hung up on it being included in the trade so he could use smoke and mirrors to manipulate the Senators fanbase into thinking this return is better than it actually is.

There is no way CBJ signs Duchene but loses Panarin and Bobrovsky, and risks regressing back to being one of the bottom teams in the East, and all this without a first round pick for the second year in a row. Duchene has already proven he can't be 'The Man' and be your lead offensive force. Two teams in a row where things wen't very sour for him. Maybe not totally all his fault but still it is not a good look.

I respect Jarmo for not letting himself be held hostage by his two pending UFA's and at least taking some sort of action. Standing pat would have been the worst thing to do. And there is no way you can go to your owner and tell him he has to lose out on what might be your best chance at making the playoffs for the next 2-3 seasons and everything that comes with it (extra revenue most importantly), and trade off two of your best players for futures instead.

You can't sell anyone on that. It would also probably demoralize the fanbase (which I feel is just on the cusp of being the next Nashville). Or maybe they say they understand and would rather take a step back instead. But it is one thing to say it and another thing to be home with no playoffs in April. That sucks big time.

 

[maplepred]

I’m just so glad my preds didn’t get him!
Phew!

Thank you Columbus for taking him

 

[JamieG19]

Columbus are suckers. Duchene is a loser and a cancer. Always has been, always will be. Can’t believe teams are still willing to invest in this guy.

 

[LoveCBJ]

Columbus are suckers. Duchene is a loser and a cancer. Always has been, always will be. Can’t believe teams are still willing to invest in this guy.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[The don godfather]

Columbus are suckers. Duchene is a loser and a cancer. Always has been, always will be. Can’t believe teams are still willing to invest in this guy.

Yea but he scores like a beast in today's nhl that's premium.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

I think it’s strange that everyone is hung up on Panarin and Bob walking. Assuming they leave, Columbus will have 20-25M in cap space. Sure it’s a risk to acquire another UFA, but it’s also a risk to sell off all your assets for futures when you’re in a playoff spot. It’s a risk to sign a goalie to an 8 x 8 deal. They will have space and they will try to fill the void that Panarin and bob leave.

But considering what the void that Duchene is filling in the current lineup, and the potential to re-sign him, it is a risk that makes sense to take. They have struggled to find consistent offense from any line aside from their first line for the last two seasons, in large part because of the play of the centers. Wennberg has struggled to create offense at even strength for a while now, and he has been expected to be the second line center (really the first line center prior to Dubois’ emergence). Duchene pushes everyone down a slot into a more comfortable position. Dubois can have mismatches playing on the 2nd line. Jenner and Wennberg can be used in the bottom 6 in more defensive situations. Dubinsky, Nash, and Sedlak become just depth, fighting over a final roster spot, rather than relied on to produce.

This team is only a few wins out of first in the division, and a couple losses from missing the playoffs. Filling their biggest need without giving up anything from the roster can potentially make this team very good right now. It’s a risk to load up, but it might also be the right time to do it.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

This should, once again, be a reminder to all. You do not acquire bluechippers w rentals, unless there’s an anomaly GM.

Modest return for Ottawa. They’ll get a 15-20 first rounder. Unless they strike gold again, aka EK in the mid first, this pick won’t materialize into anything close to Duchene. Secondly, they didn’t return an A level prospect.

More proof that rentals don’t cost as much as fans think. Who knows, good chance he re-signs. IMHO, if you are in the playoff mix, more often than not, it’s better to augment. Most of the picks or prospects don’t materialize into much compared to the player you just acquired.

They got exactly what most people on the Sens boards thought they'd get. A first and two decent prospects, or one very good prospect and a conditional pick on re-sign.

Stone we're expecting a bit more for. Guess we'll see

 

[DFC]

I'm actually surprised at how fair this deal seems.

 

[Mr Positive]

The conditional 1st rounder is a joke. Why would Duchene re-sign to play under a psycho coach like Tortorella in boring Columbus, OH rather than hitting open market? Senators should have asked for 2 more mediocre prospects instead.

if they win a bunch of playoff games I would bet players would be more likely to stay.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

A very weird time to go for it with Tampa being what they are.

I probably would have kept the assets, gotten more for Panarin + Bobrovsky, and continued building around Jones, Werenski and Dubois, who are all still very young.