OT: Other Sports aka Denver Broncos Thread XVI

[chet1926]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the piss poor reffing from tonight. Or how John Fox is the worst coach on the planet. We actually win despite him, he is the most conservative coach on the planet. If John Fox had his way every possession would be 1st down run, 2nd down run, 3rd down dink pass hopefully get 1st down, and then repeat until you have to punt. It's what he did in Carolina all those years, but he was able to get away with it there because they had a top flight defense.

The O-line sucks because 3 of our starters are out. You can't expect to lose two pro bowl caliber tackles in Clady and Franklin and do well, and no one mentions the fact that our best center hasn't played a snap all year. Plus Champ obviously was never right, our stud/captain middle LB Woodyard has been out for 2.5 games. Our best defensive player finally played his first game tonight. I know injuries happen but it's virtually impossible to win when you are missing so many key players. The fact we've won 6 out of 7 is still mind blowing to me. I don't think there is a team in the league that has had this big of an injury problem to key players.

I picture this team as a wild card team now with the way the injuries have gone against us. But that would almost guarantee us a re-match with Indy, and I would give anything to play them again with a slightly healthier team and without the refs in their back pocket. I would love for PFM to go into Indy in the playoffs and wipe the floor clean with them.

 

[Alex Jones]

I thought it was hilarious at the time that the Broncos hired John Fox, a washed up coach that was coming off the worst season of his career. The only reason the Broncos don't have an offense that is 70% running right up the gut is because of Manning.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

The officiating was very one sided. I dunno why Fox never threw the challenge flag, especially on what should have been a Decker TD. And why was Hillman even in the game

Still think Denver wins this division though. KC is nothing but a paper tiger.

 

[chet1926]

The officiating was very one sided. I dunno why Fox never threw the challenge flag, especially on what should have been a Decker TD. And why was Hillman even in the game

Still think Denver wins this division though. KC is nothing but a paper tiger.

I also find it ridiculous that you can't challenge who recovers a fumble. The replays I saw it appears Hillman recovers his fumble only to have an Indy player come in way after the fact and take it from him, because Hillman could only put one arm around it. But it looked like he had possession with arm around it and it pinned under his body. What the point of replay if you are not going to get the full call correct?

 

[tigervixxxen]

KC might be a paper tiger but look at their joke of a schedule. They are 7-0, they can't be written off any more. There are only so many games left and it's setting up that the Broncos will have to win both against them to win the division. I feel like the season is preordained to set up Broncos at Pats first week of the playoffs.

I'm glad the Broncos at least made it a game. After that second touchdown to get them within 6 the crowd was ******** their pants. But that was ugly. Way too conservative. I don't know if that's all on Fox though. Gase calls the plays and Peyton basically has veto power. Completely agree with injuries finally exposing the depth problems. It should have happened weeks ago.

I never saw one reply. The Colts showed absolutely nothing. I have no clue if we should have challenged any of those calls.

 

[hockeyfish]

I also find it ridiculous that you can't challenge who recovers a fumble. The replays I saw it appears Hillman recovers his fumble only to have an Indy player come in way after the fact and take it from him, because Hillman could only put one arm around it. But it looked like he had possession with arm around it and it pinned under his body. What the point of replay if you are not going to get the full call correct?

Neither of those plays would have been overturned.

 

[Bonzai12]

I’m absolutely fumed about the game too but the Broncos don’t have many excuses for this one.

Referees: They are such an easy excuse. If you can come up with a single facet of the Broncos game that was superior to the Colts, I’d be shocked. Special Teams? Colts…Defensive Line? Colts…Secondary? Colts….O-Line play? Colts………Face it, we just got our #*$@#$ kicked all over the field. That’s on the coaches, players, and the injuries. In the 3rd quarter they REALLY became unraveled. The calls would have had to have gone completely the other way (one sided to the Broncos) to make the game even. The Vickerson penalties were just plain stupid on his part. That guy really needs to get control of his temper.

Decker catch: If the challenge flag had been thrown, they would have lost that one. It’s the NFL continuation rule, which is one of the more idiotic rules in the book. He has to complete the catch all the way through (beyond just having 2 feet down). Decker landed both feet, fell to the ground and the ball came lose out of his hand. This is the same BS rule that Calvin Johnson has been exposed on now I think two times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqAuFs6Deko I don’t know if Decker could have made that catch and continued through and kept control of the ball. He stretched the ball over the pylon but in doing so when his hand hit the ground, the ball came out. Whether it was in bound or out of bounds doesn’t matter. Again, it’s a horrible rule but it’s the rule. We would have burned a TO on that challenge.

Injuries/Depth: Seriously I wish I could sign a petition to have them sign a tackle. It’s crazy. Trade a draft pick, sign a guy…whatever. If Valasquez or Chris Clark gets injured in a game, it will certainly cost us another one. I understand they don’t want to bring on a Pro Bowl guy to replace two Pro Bowl caliber ones, but get at least someone that’s decent just to fill a gap. Not having Woodyard really affected them as well last night, although the run defense was at last mediocre. The pass defense was horrible. Rahim Moore is still pretty awful, and Champ seems to be on the last legs of his career for sure. I thought Kayvon Webster had a decent game though. Chris Harris looks like he’s definitely come back down to earth from where he was last year.

RB’s: I think RB is a huge problem right now on this team as well. Hillman and Ball both have so much learning to do. Each of them fumbles, Hillman can’t run between the tackles and Ball can’t catch passes. Neither can block in pass protection. Very one-dimensional backs. I’d like to see CJ Anderson get some junk time still rather than Ball/Hillman. They’ve had their chances – Anderson hasn’t gotten any. The poor thing about all of this is that Moreno isn’t the best option there – he’s the ONLY option. I still to this day don’t understand the hate/discontent on McGahee. Sure he was old but the guy was producing, dependable, and could squeak out yards. They need someone like that with Moreno right now, and no one is stepping up.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Can't disagree with much there. The Willis situation was probably about money. Wasn't he going to make like 5 mil? They'll regret not having a real RB at some point (Willis wouldnt be it either). Knowshon does ok but he's using every inch of his talent to get there. And the turnovers. There is no explanation or excuse for that, I have no idea. Clear trap game. I never really expected to win this one.

 

[chet1926]

I’m absolutely fumed about the game too but the Broncos don’t have many excuses for this one.

Referees: They are such an easy excuse. If you can come up with a single facet of the Broncos game that was superior to the Colts, I’d be shocked. Special Teams? Colts…Defensive Line? Colts…Secondary? Colts….O-Line play? Colts………Face it, we just got our #*$@#$ kicked all over the field. That’s on the coaches, players, and the injuries. In the 3rd quarter they REALLY became unraveled. The calls would have had to have gone completely the other way (one sided to the Broncos) to make the game even. The Vickerson penalties were just plain stupid on his part. That guy really needs to get control of his temper.

Decker catch: If the challenge flag had been thrown, they would have lost that one. It’s the NFL continuation rule, which is one of the more idiotic rules in the book. He has to complete the catch all the way through (beyond just having 2 feet down). Decker landed both feet, fell to the ground and the ball came lose out of his hand. This is the same BS rule that Calvin Johnson has been exposed on now I think two times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqAuFs6Deko I don’t know if Decker could have made that catch and continued through and kept control of the ball. He stretched the ball over the pylon but in doing so when his hand hit the ground, the ball came out. Whether it was in bound or out of bounds doesn’t matter. Again, it’s a horrible rule but it’s the rule. We would have burned a TO on that challenge.

Injuries/Depth: Seriously I wish I could sign a petition to have them sign a tackle. It’s crazy. Trade a draft pick, sign a guy…whatever. If Valasquez or Chris Clark gets injured in a game, it will certainly cost us another one. I understand they don’t want to bring on a Pro Bowl guy to replace two Pro Bowl caliber ones, but get at least someone that’s decent just to fill a gap. Not having Woodyard really affected them as well last night, although the run defense was at last mediocre. The pass defense was horrible. Rahim Moore is still pretty awful, and Champ seems to be on the last legs of his career for sure. I thought Kayvon Webster had a decent game though. Chris Harris looks like he’s definitely come back down to earth from where he was last year.

RB’s: I think RB is a huge problem right now on this team as well. Hillman and Ball both have so much learning to do. Each of them fumbles, Hillman can’t run between the tackles and Ball can’t catch passes. Neither can block in pass protection. Very one-dimensional backs. I’d like to see CJ Anderson get some junk time still rather than Ball/Hillman. They’ve had their chances – Anderson hasn’t gotten any. The poor thing about all of this is that Moreno isn’t the best option there – he’s the ONLY option. I still to this day don’t understand the hate/discontent on McGahee. Sure he was old but the guy was producing, dependable, and could squeak out yards. They need someone like that with Moreno right now, and no one is stepping up.

Totally disagree, that was a TD, even the booth guys said it was. Its a totally different play than the Calvin Johnson ones. Decker makes the catch, make a football move and dives to the pylon which he hits then loses the ball after he hits the ground. As soon as Decker makes a football move its a valid catch, and then at that point as soon as the ball breaks the goal line its a TD, you don't have to posses it all the way to the ground.

Either way my point is why not challenge such a close call, maybe you are right and they don't overturn the play, but you got to at least give it a shot. It potentially took 4 points off the board by not at least looking at it.

 

[madman]

Fox is such a mediocre coach.

 

[Bonzai12]

Fox was a very safe choice from what was available. I wouldn't have wanted a rookie coach in here with such a veteran laden team. Would you have rather brought in Cower or Dungy? Both defensive coaches that would have left the offense in Adam Gases hands as well. The best offensive mind out there probably was Norv Turner...no thanks.

Anyways, the running game sucks. Non-existant. You've got one of the best OL minds ever (Alex Gibbs) helping them and they still can't get it done. No running game = teams being able to tee up on Peyton like they did last night. You have to at least have SOME running game.

Honestly the best offense they had last night was when they finally did commit to the short passing game and Wes Welker in the 4th quarter. That's conservative, but worked efficiently. I was begging them all game to run picks and slants for Welker. It opens up the whole field.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The OL sucks. Franklin, Clady and Vasquez are the three best linemen and two of them were out last night. Ramirez sucks, Clark is attempting to learn how to become a left tackle and the rest outside of Beadles is a ragtag patchwork group. No **** Peyton felt pressure and the run game wasn't working. Hopefully Franklin comes back next week, that should be a noticeable improvement. They need Woodyard back too.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

Random thought here...anyone think the Vikings would give us Jared Allen for a 2nd round pick?

 

[Bonzai12]

Random thought here...anyone think the Vikings would give us Jared Allen for a 2nd round pick?

Would he fit under the cap? We don't have a lot of room, although I love how we "save" room for injuries and we're not using it.

 

[chet1926]

Fox was a very safe choice from what was available. I wouldn't have wanted a rookie coach in here with such a veteran laden team. Would you have rather brought in Cower or Dungy? Both defensive coaches that would have left the offense in Adam Gases hands as well. The best offensive mind out there probably was Norv Turner...no thanks.

Anyways, the running game sucks. Non-existant. You've got one of the best OL minds ever (Alex Gibbs) helping them and they still can't get it done. No running game = teams being able to tee up on Peyton like they did last night. You have to at least have SOME running game.

Honestly the best offense they had last night was when they finally did commit to the short passing game and Wes Welker in the 4th quarter. That's conservative, but worked efficiently. I was begging them all game to run picks and slants for Welker. It opens up the whole field.

You're probably right at the time Fox was the "safe" pick, but now there is a much better option on our sideline of all places. If the Broncos are serious about winning they will can Fox and promote Del Rio, the guy is such an under-rated head coach. He was given nothing in Jacksonville, and his teams always played hard and were competitive. I always hated seeing Jacksonville on the schedule because I knew it was a game we probably should win, but in the back of my mind I knew they were going to be harder to beat than anticipated. And look how pathetic they are now since they fired him, they went from being an average team that had no talent, to a no talent laughing stock of the league.

If the Broncos keep Fox and let Del Rio walk after this season, I'm going to be pissed. The only way Fox should get to stay is if the Broncos win the Super Bowl, short of that he better be getting a pink slip, so we don't lose Del Rio.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I like Del Rio but the defense is a mess. Or do we pin injuries on a majority of that? Honestly it's probably injuries, teams playing catch up most of the time and players who were playing way above their talent level. Fox deserves his criticism but I blame a stagnant offense just as much on Gase and Peyton, there is no excuse when it comes to play calling from those two.

 

[chet1926]

I like Del Rio but the defense is a mess. Or do we pin injuries on a majority of that? Honestly it's probably injuries, teams playing catch up most of the time and players who were playing way above their talent level. Fox deserves his criticism but I blame a stagnant offense just as much on Gase and Peyton, there is no excuse when it comes to play calling from those two.

The defense was perfectly fine until Woodyard went down, its tough to lose your middle linebacker/captain. Woodyard is the most important player outside of Von Miller. Von has played all of 1 game and the defense only went to **** after Woodyard went down.

I'm not saying we had a top flight defense before Woodyard's injury but they were a middle of the road one, even with Champ and Von out for most of that time.

 

[Huis Clos*]

One loss and you guys want the head coach canned. You guys are hilarious.

 

[Pokecheque]

One loss and you guys want the head coach canned. You guys are hilarious.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I've maintained since the beginning that Fox is ultimately too conservative to be a Super Bowl-winning coach. And he's starting to exhibit Marty Schottenheimer Syndrome and making some inexplicably bad decisions come crunch time.

That said, firing him NOW would be ridiculous. But I won't be entirely shocked if he gets canned at the end of the season.

Right now it's just a very bad run of injuries that's decimating the lineup. What was supposed to be a very good defense is limping along badly, especially with Woodyard out. Also, the O-line is become more and more porous by the week. Can't build a championship team off that. Whatever the case, I'm not too concerned about this season because I didn't enter it with "Super Bowl or Bust" expectations. All I ask is that we don't get embarrassed in the first round by the frickin' Ravens or some other mediocre team that gets hot at the right time again.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Fox isn't going anywhere until Peyton is done. He'd probably walk right out if he had to deal with a head coaching change.

I know overall game decisions are on Fox and he is too conservative but still, I'm not absolving Gase and yes even Peyton himself for conservative play calling.

The defensive unit was never as good as last year. Outside of Wolfe the entire line are fill-ins. I agree Woodyard is a big key to getting the defense back on track and it's going to take more than one game for Von to get his game back. Champ might possibly be done too. I'm getting the same feeling when Rod Smith packed it in. I like Harris and DRC so it's not devastating but this defense is a huge work in progress.

I never expected a team that can't win a playoff game to win the Super Bowl so it's all wait and see to me. I see the inevitable road loss in the first round to New England like a freaking movie in my head. But yeah, not getting embarrassed would be nice.

 

[Bonzai12]

Suicidal thoughts here on the Broncos. yeesh...

I think Fox is fine as a head coach. If you really think he's horrible, start throwing out names. If he's too conservative, give a name of an experienced head coach who has long tenure, can handle veterans, is organized, and won't turn over the offense to an OC. There's not too many out there, if there is even one. Cowher, Dungy, Lovie Smith, Del Rio....all those guys are defensive minded. Gruden is the only one that I can come up with, and that's just not happening. I think that dude's in the booth for life. That leaves your inexperienced college guys/assistants left.

Del Rio - man I really like the guy. I mean I have claimed Jacksonville as my team up until this offseason because they're just $*(#ing around with MJD so badly, but Del Rio's got his flaws. Very good defensive coach but very poor offensive guy. If you think Fox is conservative, Del Rio is three times that. I think Jack's idea of a good game was winning 10-3.

A quick look at David Garrard and Byron Leftwich. Between 2003 and 2012, they have a combined 8 games with 300+ yards passing. eight..... The games where they did score big was when MJD rambled for 200+ or Fred Taylor and MJD both rambled for 100+. Del Rio is not the opposite of John Fox at all in terms of conservative play. Honestly he's probably more extreme.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

If you think its bad on the board try listening to Denver Sports Talk radio....yeesh.

If Fox is guilty of anything it's letting the players believe their own press clippings. Nobody called him too safe when Peyton tossed for 7 TD's and we were hanging 50 on the hapless Eagles.

It's one loss. We are still going to the playoffs. We are still gonna win the division. It's all good.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Still going to win the division? Do the math there, it's far from a guarantee. Is the assumption we'll easily roll the Chiefs twice?

A 6-1 record is fantastic and one loss in a tough game is nothing to be ashamed of but the road gets considerably tougher from here on out. The assumption that the Broncos will hang 50 on everyone and roll through the playoffs is what worries me.

 

[LazRNN]

I'm not that concerned about the Broncos going in as a Wild Card team. History obviously favors division winners with byes but recent history actually does not. Plus I'd dig the parallels between the 1996-1997 teams and the 2012-2013 teams if the Broncos were again Wild Card to KC's division winner following a blown 13-3 season.

 

[Hasbro]

he is the most conservative coach on the planet.

Dan Reeves died?