Other Chicago & General Sports Thread XXXIX: What awards aren't the Cubs winning?

[hawksrule]

White Sox had the trifecta of ROTY, MOTY, and Cy Young winner in '83. Took 22 years to win a World Series. Just a heads up Cub fans.

Difference is that Kittle and Hoyt weren't good baseball players, whereas Arietta and Bryant are quite awesome.

 

[blams]

Difference is that Kittle and Hoyt weren't good baseball players, whereas Arietta and Bryant are quite awesome.

 

[Kurtosis]

Yeah, it is laughable that those 2 Sox players would get lumped in with Arrieta and Bryant.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Difference is that Kittle and Hoyt weren't good baseball players, whereas Arietta and Bryant are quite awesome.

Hoyt was brilliant that year. He was a horse for three years on the Sox. You don't see guys with double digit complete games and he did it three years in a row. His problems wernt baseball.

Kittle, I agree

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Theo meets with Shark.

Watch The fleece the A's of all that talent and bring Shark back.

 

[hawksrule]

Hoyt was brilliant that year. He was a horse for three years on the Sox. You don't see guys with double digit complete games and he did it three years in a row. His problems wernt baseball.

Kittle, I agree

Hoyt struck out no one and was 17th in era.

 

[Duke33]

I have thought the same. Then you would need Clemson to well, Clemson. Bama to slip up against Auburn or Florida, or the Buckeyes to lose, but NOT to an undefeated Iowa team in the Big Ten Championship.

I think this weekend will be very telling. I think Ohio State will lose against Michigan State (assuming Cook is honestly good to go), and I do think the Boilermakers have a serious shot of knocking off the Hawkeyes. Last week the Pac 12 died, and I think the Big Ten has a chance to eat it this weekend.

Back to Oklahoma though, it would still somewhat surprise me if they won out and got in over a one loss ND team. This is based solely on the fact that ND's loss is on the road, in the rain, against the #1 team in the nation, whereas Oklahoma's is against the pitiful Texas Longhorns. Surely that would launch ND over OK even though ND won't play for a Conference Championship?

I would agree. If that's the common opponent between ND and OU, ND beat Texas by 35. I think if ND wins out they're in, although Stanford won't be easy.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Yeah, it is laughable that those 2 Sox players would get lumped in with Arrieta and Bryant.

Hoyt and Arrieta has the same amount of 5+ fWAR years.

 

[Kurtosis]

Hoyt and Arrieta has the same amount of 5+ fWAR years.

Valid point. We can reevaluate next year on that.

Kittle and Bryant isn't even close. Like not at all.

 

[hawksrule]

Arietta's past two seasons blow away anything Hoyt accomplished in his career. Like, not close.

 

[blams]

Valid point. We can reevaluate next year on that.

Kittle and Bryant isn't even close. Like not at all.

Look at the numbers 818 OPS for Kittle and 858 OPS for Bryant.


Era wise, that was a ****ing amazing year for Kittle. 35 HR/100 RBI/818 OPS for that era is right about on par with the 858 OPS/26 HR/99 RBI that Bryant put up.

 

[hawksrule]

Look at the numbers 818 OPS for Kittle and 858 OPS for Bryant.


Era wise, that was a ****ing amazing year for Kittle. 35 HR/100 RBI/818 OPS for that era is right about on par with the 858 OPS/26 HR/99 RBI that Bryant put up.

Kris Bryant 2015 fwar 6.5

Kittle 1983-1991 cumulative fwar 5.2

The comparison is laughable.

 

[blams]

Kris Bryant 2015 fwar 6.5

Kittle 1983-1991 cumulative fwar 5.2

The comparison is laughable.

You can't use any season but the rookie of the year season. It's a one year award.


Did I say Kittle was better? No. But it is not laughable. Numbers don't translate era to era.


And again, rookie of the year is only a 1 YEAR award, Where Kittle went with his career afterwards is 100 percent irrelevant.

 

[emeyezee]

This seems like a lot pf petty arguing. The game is different now than it was over 30 years ago.

I just think it's cool that ROTY, MOTY and Cy Young on one team has only occurred twice, and it happens to be exclusive to Chicago. Woot.

 

[hawksrule]

You can't use any season but the rookie of the year season. It's a one year award.


Did I say Kittle was better? No. But it is not laughable. Numbers don't translate era to era.


And again, rookie of the year is only a 1 YEAR award, Where Kittle went with his career afterwards is 100 percent irrelevant.

I think it's relevant that Kris Bryant achieved a higher war in one season than Kittle for his entire career. But if you want to compare rookies seasons -

Kris Bryant 2015 fwar 6.5.

Ron Kittle 1983 fwar 2.

Not close.

 

[blams]

I think it's relevant that Kris Bryant achieved a higher war in one season than Kittle for his entire career. But if you want to compare rookies seasons -

Kris Bryant 2015 fwar 6.5.

Ron Kittle 1983 fwar 2.

Not close.

I'm not referring to fielding, first of all. I'm talking about hitting.


And like I said, the stats do not translate from era to era. A career is irrelevant.

I'm referring to one season hitting stats. Rookie season, that's it. Of course I believe Bryant will be much better than Kittle.


But in no world is a .040 better OPS with 9 less HR's and 1 less RBI a 'much better' hitting season. Actually, it's significantly less productive considering Kittle had 39 less at bats...

Fielding wise, Kittle is way behind.


Career is irrelevant for a one season award.

 

[Kurtosis]

Why are you trying to compare OPS across eras when baseball is in a dead ball era now as well? It's not close, just stop it.

 

[Kurtosis]

And it's not close for the season or the career. At all. Full stop.

 

[hawksrule]

I'm not referring to fielding, first of all. I'm talking about hitting.


And like I said, the stats do not translate from era to era. A career is irrelevant.

I'm referring to one season hitting stats. Rookie season, that's it. Of course I believe Bryant will be much better than Kittle.


But in no world is a .040 better OPS with 9 less HR's and 1 less RBI a 'much better' hitting season. Actually, it's significantly less productive considering Kittle had 39 less at bats...

Fielding wise, Kittle is way behind.


Career is irrelevant for a one season award.

So let me get this straight. For a conversation that you didn't start, and in fact entered after me, you're declaring the parameters of what seasons I'm allowed to discuss, and also excluding stats which paint the complete picture in favor of only focusing on those which don't? Even then, you lose. Sheesh.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

Hoyt and Arrieta has the same amount of 5+ fWAR years.

Innings pitched

EDIT: Their WAR/200 breaks down like this

Hoyt - 4.42/4.14

Arrieta - 6.39/6.38

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

This Golden State-Clippers game is very fun to watch.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Hoyt struck out no one and was 17th in era.

He also had 11 complete games and walked 31 in 260 innings!!

 

[Martin Riggs]

Sheesh.. I was only trying to make a friendly joke about the Cubs not winning a World Series for another 22 years. Didn't expect a Hoyt/Kittle vs Arrieta/Bryant debate to spill out.

 

[blams]

So let me get this straight. For a conversation that you didn't start, and in fact entered after me, you're declaring the parameters of what seasons I'm allowed to discuss, and also excluding stats which paint the complete picture in favor of only focusing on those which don't? Even then, you lose. Sheesh.

It's a one season award. Kittle wasn't good after that season. This isn't a HOF voting session its an assessment of the ROY award.

And it's not close for the season or the career. At all. Full stop.

Actually, hitting wise, it is. You're way wrong. Period.

 

[hawksrule]

It's a one season award. Kittle wasn't good after that season. This isn't a HOF voting session its an assessment of the ROY award.

Actually, hitting wise, it is. You're way wrong. Period.

If you refuse to listen, I can't help you. Bryant, who happens to be a very good baseball player, is far better than Ron Kittle, who was not. That's it. No one appointed you my personal mod with veto powers over my right to analyze Kittle's career in aggregate. You don't get to crowbar your way into a conversation and then tell me what I'm restricted to discussing.

Furthermore, you're the only one comparing eras. War, the only stat I've mentioned, transcends eras. While it may be inconvenient for you that war is yet another proof of your erroneous argument, the facts are what they are, whether you want to compare their rookie years or full bodies of work. Your obstinance is silly.