Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LXIV: Cactus League

[Kaners Bald Spot]

July 31, 1997 was worse

Not even close. They made the right move then. Making trades to buy in that position is exactly how you end up trading a guy like Fernando Tatis Jr.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

We're the Sox the only team to make Louis Robert a real or serious offer? Or were the Sox just the team to value his services (or willing to take the risk) more than the others?

I can't remember the details, but I believe the Cardinals offer was very similar, and he was drawn by the other Cubans and the better city to play in.

It's apples and oranges. We're talking about an offer that was $50 MILLION short. I'm sorry, but offering 83% of what he signed for says to me they really weren't as serious as they made it out to be over the last several months. And the 2 option years they included were insulting.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I can't remember the details, but I believe the Cardinals offer was very similar, and he was drawn by the other Cubans and the better city to play in.

It's apples and oranges. We're talking about an offer that was $50 MILLION short. I'm sorry, but offering 83% of what he signed for says to me they really weren't as serious as they made it out to be over the last several months. And the 2 option years they included were insulting.

Luis Robert is apples and oranges and there might have been other considerations.

But change it to whoever the last big free agent who signed to the highest bidder and my point remains the same. Did no other team make a serious or real off for Hosmer/Darvish/whoever last year or were teams just not willing to pay what the Pads or Cubs ultimately offered?

It's 50 mil short and two years shorter. But it was ultimately the 2nd best offer out there, unless I'm missing something. The Sox and every other team (apparently) weren't willing to go to 10/300. I don't take that to mean that the Padres were the only team to have serious interest and make a real offer.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Luis Robert is apples and oranges and there might have been other considerations.

But change it to whoever the last big free agent who signed to the highest bidder and my point remains the same. Did no other team make a serious or real off for Hosmer/Darvish/whoever last year or were teams just not willing to pay what the Pads or Cubs ultimately offered?

It's 50 mil short and two years shorter. But it was ultimately the 2nd best offer out there, unless I'm missing something. The Sox and every other team (apparently) weren't willing to go to 10/300. I don't take that to mean that the Padres were the only team to have serious interest and make a real offer.

RE the bolded: The Padres were the only team to have serious interest and make a real offer.
300M was the bare minimum.
Regardless of that, the Sox always have just enough financial restraint to finish 2nd. Whether it be A-Rod, the MLB payroll from 2001-04, or now Machado. They always seem to finish 2nd, and always on purpose.

 

[Any Colour You Like]

I mean, if you were willing to pay $250M guaranteed, what's the damn difference? Pay the man his money if you think he's worth it.

And they obviously thought he was worth the effort if they tried to lure their dancing partner into the ballroom using his buddies as bait.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

when it rains it pours.

25 of the most over rated players in mlb under 25 ....... guess how many the Sox have on the list and which player lead off the list at #1 .

Ranking MLB's 25 Most Overhyped Players Age 25 and Under Entering 2019

That article is good stuff.

I'd throw in Burger, Zach Collins and Robert. All are high potential busts.

So much for the Sox "great" system. The biggest question is;

Who ruins young players worse?

The White Sox or the Oilers?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

That article is good stuff.

I'd throw in Burger, Zach Collins and Robert. All are high potential busts.

So much for the Sox "great" system. The biggest question is;

Who ruins young players worse?

The White Sox or the Oilers?

Push. The Sox haven't developed a drafted hitter since Crede and an International hitter since El Caballo. They haven't developed a drafted pitcher since McCarthy and an international pitcher since god knows when. Sale doesn't count because he was up about three weeks after signing out of college. Quintana did most of his developing in the Yankee system.

I know you're trolling but I'm ok with anyone willing to rip the Sox FO a new bunghole today. They deserve it.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Lol this thread...

 

[Malagahawks]

Im with @KanersBaldSpot

As a sox fan I'm just disgusted with the whole organization. To sit there and proclaim your deserve a seat at the table and act like a big boy team financially, yet fall short by quite a lot. I fell for it hook line and sinker this was the year to get a big free agent without the real big teams being involved.
I know the offered $250 with incentives and opt ins valued at $350.
That's a great looking and sounding proposal until the player you offer it to continues to say I want $300 million guaranteed, nothing less.

But don't worry we sox fans have great prospects to get excited for.

Not a Sox fan but it is really disappointing to here Hahn state as early as last year there would be money to spend when the time was right to pursue FA's and then essentially lowball Machado with the 2 vesting options. They knew full well going in Machado's floor was 300M guaranteed. Whether he is worth it long term is another story. Like the Bulls the FO is just incompetant.

 

[LDF]

Not a Sox fan but it is really disappointing to here Hahn state as early as last year there would be money to spend when the time was right to pursue FA's and then essentially lowball Machado with the 2 vesting options. They knew full well going in Machado's floor was 300M guaranteed. Whether he is worth it long term is another story. Like the Bulls the FO is just incompetant.

 

[Illinihockey]

Not a Sox fan but it is really disappointing to here Hahn state as early as last year there would be money to spend when the time was right to pursue FA's and then essentially lowball Machado with the 2 vesting options. They knew full well going in Machado's floor was 300M guaranteed. Whether he is worth it long term is another story. Like the Bulls the FO is just incompetant.

Apparently they also wouldn't give him any opt outs. If they were serious and just came in with $300 for 10 he'd be a Sox player now.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Apparently they also wouldn't give him any opt outs. If they were serious and just came in with $300 for 10 he'd be a Sox player now.

I don’t know if that’s true. I think @piteus is onto something with his wife’s influence. San Diego offered that deal so he went there. For him to choose the Sox, it seems like they would have had to best the San Diego offer by a significant amount.

 

[Illinihockey]

I don’t know if that’s true. I think @piteus is onto something with his wife’s influence. San Diego offered that deal so he went there. For him to choose the Sox, it seems like they would have had to best the San Diego offer by a significant amount.

San Diego never would have offered him anything if the Sox came in with a real offer 2 months ago. The Sox never got within $50 mil of what he wanted guaranteed. The Sox made their offer and then hoped there was no market for him so they could get him for cheaper than he wanted to be paid.

 

[ColdSteel2]

San Diego never would have offered him anything if the Sox came in with a real offer 2 months ago. The Sox never got within $50 mil of what he wanted guaranteed. The Sox made their offer and then hoped there was no market for him so they could get him for cheaper than he wanted to be paid.

Yeah, hard to know for sure. You don’t think there was any indication of interest from San Diego until the 11th hour?

It seems like he just didn’t want to go to the Sox unless it was the middle of spring training and nobody else put in another offer.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

I don’t know if that’s true. I think @piteus is onto something with his wife’s influence. San Diego offered that deal so he went there. For him to choose the Sox, it seems like they would have had to best the San Diego offer by a significant amount.

Maybe. The reality is though they were significantly under what he accepted.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Maybe. The reality is though they were significantly under what he accepted.

Yeah, at the end of the day, since they didn’t match the San Diego offer, they failed. Obviously people would be less frustrated if there were identical offers and he simply chose San Diego.

 

[ndgt10]

Williams on the Padres going to $300 million: "That level wasn't feasible to us because we still have to project putting together a total winning roster and keeping the young players that will ultimately earn into greater dollars themselves."

0 chance they ever land a whale going forward with this attitude. Just wait until they have to compete against the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs for one.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Yeah, at the end of the day, since they didn’t match the San Diego offer, they failed. Obviously people would be less frustrated if there were identical offers and he simply chose San Diego.

I think people would be less upset if they were close. The Heyward free agency decision is a good comparable. There were like 3 teams all within like $5-10 million if I recall and he actually took a slight discount to sign with the Cubs due to the opt outs.

If the Sox were at say, $285-290 million with some options to bring it to $330ish... fans owuld be a lot less upset.

 

[Illinihockey]

Williams on the Padres going to $300 million: "That level wasn't feasible to us because we still have to project putting together a total winning roster and keeping the young players that will ultimately earn into greater dollars themselves."

0 chance they ever land a whale going forward with this attitude. Just wait until they have to compete against the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs for one.

That statement literally makes no sense. They were offering 250 for 8 so a little over 30 per year, he took 300 for 10 so 30 a year.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Williams on the Padres going to $300 million: "That level wasn't feasible to us because we still have to project putting together a total winning roster and keeping the young players that will ultimately earn into greater dollars themselves."

0 chance they ever land a whale going forward with this attitude. Just wait until they have to compete against the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs for one.

This would seriously piss me off if I were a Sox fan. Look at their team payroll by year...

Chicago White Sox Multi-Year Payroll

They don't have ANY significant money committed beyond the 2019 season. What a joke.

 

[ColdSteel2]

This would seriously piss me off if I were a Sox fan. Look at their team payroll by year...

Chicago White Sox Multi-Year Payroll

They don't have ANY significant money committed beyond the 2019 season. What a joke.

Yeah, that seems like their main problem. If a big time player signs there, they might go straight back into cheap mode. Then guess where all of the fingers are going to point to when the team is struggling. They kind of have to sign 2 of them in the same offseason or at least go on some kind of spending spree to show that times have changed. Signing a couple of relievers isn’t going to convince anyone.

 

[Illinihockey]

when it rains it pours.

25 of the most over rated players in mlb under 25 ....... guess how many the Sox have on the list and which player lead off the list at #1 .

Ranking MLB's 25 Most Overhyped Players Age 25 and Under Entering 2019

Ouch

 

[Malagahawks]

Williams on the Padres going to $300 million: "That level wasn't feasible to us because we still have to project putting together a total winning roster and keeping the young players that will ultimately earn into greater dollars themselves."

0 chance they ever land a whale going forward with this attitude. Just wait until they have to compete against the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs for one.

Again going back to my prior post why would Hahn butter up the fanbase literally promising to use all of that financial flexibility when the time was right and then whiff spectacularly. Their damage control is even more disastrous than their lying about using that financial flexibility.

 

[ndgt10]

Again going back to my prior post why would Hahn butter up the fanbase literally promising to use all of that financial flexibility when the time was right and then whiff spectacularly. Their damage control is even more disastrous than their lying about using that financial flexibility.

They should know you have to pay for a player to come to such a shit organization.

10 years 325 mill opt out with no incentives should have been the offer

 

[Malagahawks]

They should know you have to pay for a player to come to such a **** organization.

10 years 325 mill opt out with no incentives should have been the offer

Additionally, today's MLB market and the dynamics of negotiating have changed dramatically. They are dinosaurs who have been left far behind.