Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LXIV: Cactus League

[clydesdale line]

I don't deny the first comment.
I used to believe the second, now I think we have to wait and see. Never underestimate the incompetence of the Sox player development dept.

Luckily Eloy pretty much had his key development in the Cubs lower minor league system.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I don't deny the first comment.
I used to believe the second, now I think we have to wait and see. Never underestimate the incompetence of the Sox player development dept.

Weather or not the Sox gave Machado 10 years has no baring on Eloy

 

[Malagahawks]

What are the opinions on Hahn's presser?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Weather or not the Sox gave Machado 10 years has no baring on Eloy

While true, I'm more skeptical of the Sox FO's player eval than anything. Their incompetence has thrown everyone and everything into question.

 

[Malagahawks]

A buddy sent me a link to his presser. Listened to 5 minutes of it and he just spewed garbage, nothing close to reality. Wow.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

A buddy sent me a link to his presser. Listened to 5 minutes of it and he just spewed garbage, nothing close to reality. Wow.

No, you think?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

There's a difference between roasting the FO and with what he was doing roasting our prospects and such. Hell he still thinks the Quintana trade was a win for the Cubs. By his logic, the Sox won the James Shields trade.

Jeez not this again....

Shields was a 25 WAR career pitcher when he was traded. It was the Sox who ruined him. His worst seasons of his career happened on the Sox and he still managed 200 plus innings last year. Who on that pathetic staff was giving the Sox 200 innings? Fulmer? He's a bust.

Will Tatis be better? Sure, Shields had little or no impact on the Sox, who pretty much ruined the guy. The bar is low.

As for Q, he would be the number one on the Sox every year since he was traded. Eloy hasn't done anything in the majors and its questionable if he can hit MLB pitching. Cease is a former Cubs pitching prospect, a team with a resume for developing pitching or drafting pitching, yeah?

Not really. And with the haul the Sox got in all those quantity trades, none of the players have actually come thru on the MLB level while all their supposedly great draft picks are all hitting bust stage.

Oh, and BTW, Madrigal, the five foot five kid the Sox wasted a high pick on, wasn't even on one top 100 prospect list on account of he brings no power what so ever offensively with an upside of a weaker Ben Zobrist.

Who drafts a weaker Ben Zobrist with a top four pick?

 

[HawksBeerFan]

The Q trade for the Cubs was at least defensible. They needed a controlled SP and Q had been very good in his career. They are currently in their competitive window.

The Shields trade for the Sox was made when it was fairly obvious they weren't a contender. Giving up a prospect for an innings eater when you're not competing is just bad asset management.

 

[ColdSteel2]

The Cubs got curb stomped in that trade. Q fell off a cliff after that first start in Baltimore. Whatever Eloy and Cease become, this Quintana was not what the Cubs were trading for. He performed much better in the stronger AL.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

The Cubs got curb stomped in that trade. Q fell off a cliff after that first start in Baltimore. Whatever Eloy and Cease become, this Quintana was not what the Cubs were trading for. He performed much better in the stronger AL.

The writing was on the wall, too. Sox fans were expecting a diminished return. The Sox got paid for 2014-2016 Quintana and not 2017-present Quintana. We all thought the Sox blew it by not moving him in the 2016-17 offseason. I could understand why the Cubs would think that he'd go back to being the 15-16 guy and that maybe he had a down half season, but it was a trend rather than a blip.

If you look at 2017 and 2018 it is clear what type of pitcher Q is now.
Jose Quintana Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

It might look like the Cubs got curb stomped, but we have to see what Eloy and Cease do at the MLB level. If Cease spends a lot of time on the injured list and Eloy is a 2.5 WAR DH (Both are real possibilities) then it is at best a wash. When the Sox traded for Eloy, they compared him to Carlos Lee. Go look at Lee's career averages and tell me if it is a fair trade.
Carlos Lee Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

To be honest with everyone, I think that Sox fans are going to look at Kopech and Cease a lot like Cubs fans look at Prior and Wood.

 

[Malagahawks]

Which Cubs players might be targets for potential extensions this spring or in the offseason? I think they need to target Schwarber & Javi. KB will be really difficult and will probably go year to year in Arb until he hkts FA.

 

[LDF]

the problem i have with this question is, you are making an assumption that Hah was responsible for everything good or bad. this goes back to my believe that it was KW who orchestrated the Tatis for Shields trade. now Hahn has to accept the all finger pointing that everyone is doing.

just like this presser, Hahn has to do the company line, paint a rosier picture of the situation.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

The Cubs got curb stomped in that trade. Q fell off a cliff after that first start in Baltimore. Whatever Eloy and Cease become, this Quintana was not what the Cubs were trading for. He performed much better in the stronger AL.

Lmk when Eloy or Cease do anything on the MLB level for this "curbstomp" thanks

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

To be honest with everyone, I think that Sox fans are going to look at Kopech and Cease a lot like Cubs fans look at Prior and Wood.

A pitcher who was used up in high school and a *cough* naturally gifted pitcher*cough* with huge calves?

Sox fans need to aim higher

 

[piteus]

Lmk when Eloy or Cease do anything on the MLB level for this "curbstomp" thanks

It's not like Q's done much for the Cubs except be a #4 ... and looks to be the #5 this year.

 

[Kurtosis]

Lmk when Eloy or Cease do anything on the MLB level for this "curbstomp" thanks

Would much rather have those 2 than Q.

 

[clydesdale line]

Lmk when Eloy or Cease do anything on the MLB level for this "curbstomp" thanks

Same with Tatis.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

It's not like Q's done much for the Cubs except be a #4 ... and looks to be the #5 this year.

He wasnt brought in to be a number one guy.

4 or 5 is fine he's eating MLB innings

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Would much rather have those 2 than Q.

So would the Sox.

They are a last place team.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Same with Tatis.

Didn't I say the Sox won the Shields trade so far a couple posts ago?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

A pitcher who was used up in high school and a *cough* naturally gifted pitcher*cough* with huge calves?

Sox fans need to aim higher

Of course we do, it doesn't mean that I don't think they're going to be really good when on the mound but they're only going to give you 110-120 innings per year until they get injured and flame out/moved to the bullpen.
Even though I know you're a bridge dwelling troll I'll agree with your hyperbole because the Sox are incompetent boobs.

 

[Kurtosis]

So would the Sox.

They are a last place team.

Okay, we agree that both teams would rather have Eloy and Cease.

 

[Kurtosis]

He wasnt brought in to be a number one guy.

4 or 5 is fine he's eating MLB innings

He was brought in to be more than a 4 or 5. For what the Cubs gave up they should expect more than he has given them.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Okay, we agree that both teams would rather have Eloy and Cease.

No, you and the Sox agree.

I want nothing to do with prospects when the Cubs window is open now.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

He was brought in to be more than a 4 or 5. For what the Cubs gave up they should expect more than he has given them.

(Looks at last year's Sox stats, looks for Eloy and Cease...finds nothing)

What did the Cubs give up?