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Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LXI: Bulls Talk

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BK

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Minneapolis, MN
piteus said:
It doesn't look good. I want to know the details. This is not about the Cubs. This is about booting him from Major League Baseball. It's a fair ask.

The facts and details matter if you want to set a proper precedent. Otherwise you have another Osuna pitching in the playoffs in 2 years because we don't know the details.
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I agree.
 

HawksBeerFan

Registered User
Nov 9, 2014
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piteus said:
I don't understand why people are so amped to jump to conclusions before gathering all the facts. I never said you were wrong to be skeptical of Russell.

However, what's so hard with waiting for the facts to come out? Theo is. You and I would have been BOTH wrong regarding Rueben Foster if we decided to move at first blush.

This is the same reasoning why the Phi Kappa Psi House was attacked with students in the residence when the Rolling Stone article came out. The protest was led by professors. This set back sexual assault victims on college campuses a decade. That's why you have idiot policians attacking Dr. Ford's credible testimony.

People don't understand getting the facts from BOTH sides not only protects future victims, but also gives the alleged a fair chance.

I find both ends of the spectrum idiots. One wants to crucify before the facts. The other wants to label the accuser a liar. No one wants the truth before coming to an informed opinion. Extremist on either side are dangerous. It's why we can't have a rational discourse about a serious topic. They are all pushing a narrative.
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You're conflating two things that are not the same. It's not a police investigation, but MLB did look into the Russell allegations and now has delivered a judgment. After the Foster allegations were investigated, it was proved he did not do what he was accused of and he was not suspended.

The facts may not have come out but the facts have been investigated, and the body who investigated determined he violated their policy on domestic violence. Frankly, the public doesn't need to know all the details, it's a delicate matter and the fact that you're more worried about knowing exactly what kind of domestic abuse took place instead of being concerned for the victim and her privacy, yeah that's a real unfortunate stance.
 
BK

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
HawksBeerFan said:
You're conflating two things that are not the same. It's not a police investigation, but MLB did look into the Russell allegations and now has delivered a judgment. After the Foster allegations were investigated, it was proved he did not do what he was accused of and he was not suspended.

The facts may not have come out but the facts have been investigated, and the body who investigated determined he violated their policy on domestic violence. Frankly, the public doesn't need to know all the details, it's a delicate matter and the fact that you're more worried about knowing exactly what kind of domestic abuse took place instead of being concerned for the victim and her privacy, yeah that's a real unfortunate stance.
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The bold in not true. You can have concern and what to know what happened at the same time.
 
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HawksBeerFan

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Nov 9, 2014
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BK said:
The bold in not true. You can have concern and what to know what happened at the same time.
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I think she told us what happened though, or as much as she was willing to share with the entire world. Why isn't that enough?
 
piteus

piteus

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Dec 20, 2015
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HawksBeerFan said:
You're conflating two things that are not the same. It's not a police investigation, but MLB did look into the Russell allegations and now has delivered a judgment. After the Foster allegations were investigated, it was proved he did not do what he was accused of and he was not suspended.

The facts may not have come out but the facts have been investigated, and the body who investigated determined he violated their policy on domestic violence. Frankly, the public doesn't need to know all the details, it's a delicate matter and the fact that you're more worried about knowing exactly what kind of domestic abuse took place instead of being concerned for the victim and her privacy, yeah that's a real unfortunate stance.
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What did I tell YOU. Why do we think MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, or Universities can do a better job investigating a domestic / sexual assault case than the police. They can't! It's been proven over and over again. That's why most Americans are demanding the FBI take the time to do a thorough investigation into Kavanaugh instead of the politicians, an independent body.

How many times have these professional leagues and Univerties screwed up investigating a domestic / sexual assault case?!?! They are not equipped.

If you actually read my post, I already said that this is NOT a police investigation. Thus, it's not a court of law. Circumstantial evidence could be enough to find Russell guilty. IF it's as bad as Russell's wife says it is ... this needs to go to the POLICE. The statute if limitations is not up. The police does not have to indict Russell to have him found guilty in the court of public opinion.

Russell's wife smashed her privacy argument when she went public on social media. This story will ultimately come out if police does do an investigation ... Freedom of information act. So please spare me "privacy laws" when she went public after being afforded her privacy the year before. She wanted a platform to be heard. She even said it.

What's unfortunate is that you have a narrative without asking for more details. Do you trust OSU's investigation into Courtney Smith's allegations? Did you trust MSU's investigation into their sexual assault allegations against their football and basketball players? Do you trust the NFL when it comes to domestic assault investigations? MLB and the NBA also has a spotty record. The NHL isn't much better.

I don't think anyone can say with a straight face MLB has a good track record looking into domestic assault allegations.
 

HawksBeerFan

Registered User
Nov 9, 2014
5,667
2,515
piteus said:
What did I tell YOU. Why do we think MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, or Universities can do a better job investigating a domestic / sexual assault case than the police. They can't! It's been proven over and over again. That's why most Americans are demanding the FBI take the time to do a thorough investigation into Kavanaugh instead of the politicians, an independent body.

How many times have these professional leagues and Univerties screwed up investigating a domestic / sexual assault case?!?! They are not equipped.

If you actually read my post, I already said that this is NOT a police investigation. Thus, it's not a court of law. Circumstantial evidence could be enough to find Russell guilty. IF it's as bad as Russell's wife says it is ... this needs to go to the POLICE. The statute if limitations is not up. The police does not have to indict Russell to have him found guilty in the court of public opinion.

Russell's wife smashed her privacy argument when she went public on social media. This story will ultimately come out if police does do an investigation ... Freedom of information act. So please spare me "privacy laws" when she went public after being afforded her privacy the year before. She wanted a platform to be heard. She even said it.

What's unfortunate is that you have a narrative without asking for more details. Do you trust OSU's investigation into Courtney Smith's allegations? Did you trust MSU's investigation into their sexual assault allegations against their football and basketball players? Do you trust the NFL when it comes to domestic assault investigations? MLB and the NBA also has a spotty record. The NHL isn't much better.

I don't think anyone can say with a straight face MLB has a good track record looking into domestic assault allegations.
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Alright, I accept I won't be able to change your mind on this. We'll agree to disagree.
 
piteus

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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NYC
HawksBeerFan said:
Alright, I accept I won't be able to change your mind on this. We'll agree to disagree.
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I'm not against you. I'm actually for you. I admire your stance on protecting the vulnerable. However, by doing things right ... getting the facts ... making rational decisions ... you don't have idiots calling every accuser a liar or delusional.

Furthermore, if we get the details ... and it's abhorrent, the public can demand a bigger punishment. That sets a precedent where we won't have another Osuna fiasco. I'm with you. Domestic / Sexual assaults should have bigger consequences. That said, I just want to make it air tight so the idiots can't poke holes in the precedent.

By the way, if Russell is guilty of what's been alleged, 40 games is not enough.
 

Easy E

Registered User
Jun 9, 2015
2,762
358
RayP said:
Stop it BWC Jr.
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Ooooooooooooo so smooth

082117_baez_slide_med.gif
 
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hawksrule

Lot of brains but no polish
May 18, 2014
20,912
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piteus said:
One thing I learned about sexual / domestic assault cases ... never take any statements on either side for granted. You give the proper sensitivity and do your own work to vet the truth. That was the same with Rueben Foster (where I jumped to conclusions because of his past), Derrick Rose, Patrick Kane, Rasheed Sulaimon, UVA Rape Hoax, Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, etc.

Every domestic / sexual assault case is unique. There is no template except give the proper time and effort to find the truth. You have to try your best to verify her statement.

I'm not grasping at straws. I'm just trying to be fair. And I also realize the court of public / professional opinion has a far lower bar than a court of law. That's why I wanted to read the police report. Russell can be "most likely" guilty without being indicted. That I understand.

I want to know what Russell is admitting to. I want to know the details. I think it's a fair ask before forming a rational opinion. However, I will say it doesn't look good.

I'm no Russell fan. I never have been. He's a utility infielder. There's no ulterior motive. I just want to be sure we have all the facts before coming to a decision. Then no one has a reason to complain.
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Some of these things are not like the others...
 
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OhCaptainMyCaptain

OhCaptainMyCaptain

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May 5, 2014
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Earth
I just realized what I want from this playoffs.

Yankees vs. Rockies in the World Series. People would go nuts complaining about the two ballparks.
 
Blackhawkswincup

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
187,576
21,091
Chicagoland
A's doing what they do best

Failing when it matters most

6-0 Yanks in 6th now as A's bullpen has given up 4 runs to Yanks here

Rodney imploded and A's manager put his closer in who has done nothing to turn tide
 
OhCaptainMyCaptain

OhCaptainMyCaptain

Registered User
May 5, 2014
22,247
2,354
Earth
Blackhawkswincup said:
A's doing what they do best

Failing when it matters most

6-0 Yanks in 6th now as A's bullpen has given up 4 runs to Yanks here

Rodney imploded and A's manager put his closer in who has done nothing to turn tide
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He didn’t really have a chance. He knew he needed to stop them there or the game would be over. Guy just didn’t get it done.
 
piteus

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
12,122
3,367
NYC
hawksrule said:
Some of these things are not like the others...
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I was making it clear that there are injustices on both sides without getting all the information. More importantly, these professional leagues and Universities are terrible investigating domestic and sexual assaults. In fact, they are far worse to alleged victims ... who are usually powerless. We just never hear about them because they usually don't have the platform.

I'm all for fairness.
 
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