OT: MLB commish - Las Vegas being considered for expansion team

[garnetpalmetto]

Reaching waaaaaaaaaay back to quote, but no way it could. It's a beautiful park but it's small and it's essentially in a residential neighborhood...I mean, a lot of people park on the street to go to games. Not nearly the right area to sustain a pro sports franchise.

Pro sports yes, major league sports, no. But thanks there, I suspected it couldn't be upgraded.

 

[KevFu]

I thought I read somewhere they built it with the potential for adding thousands of extra seats in the outfield; and part of the reason the Oakland A’s signed on with Nashville was because the stadium had potential to be used by the A’s if building a new MLB stadium became impossible.

But that could be a figment of my imagination.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I thought I read somewhere they built it with the potential for adding thousands of extra seats in the outfield; and part of the reason the Oakland A’s signed on with Nashville was because the stadium had potential to be used by the A’s if building a new MLB stadium became impossible.

But that could be a figment of my imagination.

I can't really see it, but I haven't been there in a couple years. I know there's nearby lots/industrial sites, but they're already redeveloping them into mixed-use residential/commercial. It probably has the bones to be built up as a stadium...wide, flat layout with ample concourses, and I was surprised to see it had a 10,000 capacity because it feels smaller. Logistically I don't know how it would be a fit from a parking standpoint unless they built an enormous garage. Tennessee and Nashville are not public transit/walking friendly places, and First Tennessee is sandwiched between downtown and the upscale residential Germantown neighborhood.

Nashville is already building an MLS stadium, so don't know how the politics would play. I personally see MLS stadiums as just horrible investments because I don't see that league growing/aging all that well, but who knows.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I thought I read somewhere they built it with the potential for adding thousands of extra seats in the outfield; and part of the reason the Oakland A’s signed on with Nashville was because the stadium had potential to be used by the A’s if building a new MLB stadium became impossible.

But that could be a figment of my imagination.

Sorry, Kev, but I think figment. Upon digging some I found this:

Further complicating an MLB expansion push in Nashville: Metro government just recently spent $91 million to build 10,000-seat First Tennessee Park, home of minor league baseball’s Nashville Sounds, that opened in 2015. The Sounds are the affiliate of MLB’s Oakland Athletics.

Doug Scopel, vice president of operations for the Sounds, said the team has “one of the top, if not the top, minor league ballparks” in the country — one that cannot be expanded for MLB, he said.

“We look to continue having success here for many years,” Scopel said. “If and when the time comes for Nashville to consider Major League Baseball, that’s a conversation for city government and other folks to have.”

 

[StreetHawk]

I can't really see it, but I haven't been there in a couple years. I know there's nearby lots/industrial sites, but they're already redeveloping them into mixed-use residential/commercial. It probably has the bones to be built up as a stadium...wide, flat layout with ample concourses, and I was surprised to see it had a 10,000 capacity because it feels smaller. Logistically I don't know how it would be a fit from a parking standpoint unless they built an enormous garage. Tennessee and Nashville are not public transit/walking friendly places, and First Tennessee is sandwiched between downtown and the upscale residential Germantown neighborhood.

Nashville is already building an MLS stadium, so don't know how the politics would play. I personally see MLS stadiums as just horrible investments because I don't see that league growing/aging all that well, but who knows.

Ideally you would have soccer and football share a stadium, but in North America soccer isn’t like it is in Europe so they don’t need 70k stadiums. 30k max is right. Almost like nhl vs chl 18k vs 6k.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Ideally you would have soccer and football share a stadium, but in North America soccer isn’t like it is in Europe so they don’t need 70k stadiums. 30k max is right. Almost like nhl vs chl 18k vs 6k.

I wonder if we'll ever get another 25k+ seat NHL/NBA arena. There's cities that could fill it, and the view is fine from the very top of the United Center. I'm excited for the next generation of arenas.

 

[LadyStanley]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to media markets. Pittsburgh has western Pennsylvania, Cincinnati has Kentucky and Southern Ohio, Kansas City has western Missouri and most of Kansas/Nebraska, etc. etc. etc.

Las Vegas has the Las Vegas Valley, Tonopah, Kingman, AZ, and perhaps St. George. It's a small media market for baseball unless MLB hooks a Las Vegas team up the way the NHL did. It's also worth considering that MLB already considers Las Vegas home territory for six teams.

VGK has entire states of Nevada, Idaho, Montana and Utah as part of its media market.

 

[StreetHawk]

I wonder if we'll ever get another 25k+ seat NHL/NBA arena. There's cities that could fill it, and the view is fine from the very top of the United Center. I'm excited for the next generation of arenas.

Doubt that. Seems that they prefer the luxury/premium seating vs expanded seating. Better for pricing to keep the demand high.

 

[Rich Nixon]

VGK has entire states of Nevada, Idaho, Montana and Utah as part of its media market.

That's what I wonder about with Seattle expansion, since much of western Montana is usually lumped into that media market. Interested in how they sort that out.

 

[LadyStanley]

Washington state and Oregon perhaps.

 

[BattleBorn]

VGK has entire states of Nevada, Idaho, Montana and Utah as part of its media market.

Well, right. That's kind of the point. The further you get away from Las Vegas, the less natural interest there is. For example, the VGK radio network only has four affiliates outside of Nevada, all of them in places where the people are more likely to travel to Las Vegas for "big city" needs than any other place. Zero in SLC metro, Zero in Idaho, Zero in Montana.

Having the rights to the area doesn't mean you can monetize it. It's not a good recipe for success in the MLB.

Plus, Nevada, Utah, and Idaho's population is just about the same as Washington State's.

I'm a pretty huge advocate for everything Las Vegas, as I'm sure I've shown over the past years. I just don't see MLB working until the population growth I mentioned earlier comes to pass, at the very least. The longer the Golden Knights go with a vast majority of the people in the stands being local, the less likely an MLB team would work, IMO. We'll have to wait for the Raiders and the results of that prior to even considering MLB with the current population or anything close. If that's half tourists, I could see a little more of a case.

 

[KevFu]

Sorry, Kev, but I think figment. Upon digging some I found this:

Must have been Memphis or Charlotte or something.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Must have been Memphis or Charlotte or something.

It might have been Charlotte's old park (Knight's Castle/Knight's Stadium). I know for a fact it could be converted into an MLB park and there was talk of that being a potential landing spot for the White Sox if they didn't get a new park to replace Comiskey.

 

[powerstuck]

VGK has entire states of Nevada, Idaho, Montana and Utah as part of its media market.

That's what I wonder about with Seattle expansion, since much of western Montana is usually lumped into that media market. Interested in how they sort that out.

It shouldn't matter. Teams have only 50 miles radius to take as exclusive market. Media markets overlap somewhat without many issues.

The way it works is that Team A partners with Channel A and Team B with Channel B. In a given state you have access to both, but have to pay for both, so they all get their $.

 

[LadyStanley]

It shouldn't matter. Teams have only 50 miles radius to take as exclusive market. Media markets overlap somewhat without many issues.

The way it works is that Team A partners with Channel A and Team B with Channel B. In a given state you have access to both, but have to pay for both, so they all get their $.

Not necessarily. Teams may blackout their games on "other" regional carriers, so you can't get a team on CI because it's local, but can't see it as it's been blackout on the station you can get.

 

[KevFu]

Yeah, the league carves up the territory. The 50 mile thing is really only protection from someone moving in, not media.

You look at a League TV map and the entire thing is covered with exclusive territory. Shared or overlapping territory exists, but that overlap doesn't make multiple teams necessarily accessible. I don't think what you said was "wrong," powerstruck, it's just that it simply doesn't happen often...

For example, when I lived in Dayton, Ohio... it's shared TV territory for Cincinnati, Cleveland and Detroit. They're blacked out on MLB Extra Innings and MLBTV -- you have to watch on cable. But I could ONLY watch the Reds on cable. Fox Sports Ohio gave me Reds, not Indians, and I never saw a Detroit game. (And what's worse is that Detroit at NY Mets, I can't watch on extra innings because it's blacked out. Like I'm going to drive to Detroit to watch a Tigers road game?).

Aside from two-team markets (NY, CHI, LA, BA, DC, Missouri), the only place I know of where you can get multiple teams broadcasting from separate markets is Las Vegas (although I'm not totally sure on Illinois, Iowa, New Mexico, Oklahoma, etc).

 

[KevFu]

Oh, when I lived in Austin, Texas, we got the Astros and not the Rangers.

Which was quite interesting at the time, because I was there working for the Round Rock Express while the club was about to transfer affiliations from Houston to Texas upon the sale of the Texas Rangers.

And I explained this exact thing I'm explaining to you guys now about exclusive territory....

... in the Round Rock press box. To a guy holding a remote looking for the Rangers game. Because he wanted to watch the Rangers. Because he was about to purchase them. Because he was Nolan Ryan.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Iowa doesn't get anybody even though they are considered Twins, Brewers, White Sox, Cubs and I believe Cardinals and Royals territory as well. You can't get them on cable and they're blacked out on MLB.tv.

 

[KevFu]

You know. we're talking about Vegas and TV stuff...

but the market that's probably best suited to join MLB with Montreal ASAP would be San Antonio.

San Antonio is moving up to Triple A (replacing Colorado Springs), so they're trying to build a new Triple A stadium. But they can't get any movement on the stadium front with the local government.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You know. we're talking about Vegas and TV stuff...

but the market that's probably best suited to join MLB with Montreal ASAP would be San Antonio.

San Antonio is moving up to Triple A (replacing Colorado Springs), so they're trying to build a new Triple A stadium. But they can't get any movement on the stadium front with the local government.

because of Austin FC, Kev....aka the Columbus Crew

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

The good old days... I grew up in London, Ontario, which had wide penetration (like everyone I knew) "cable TV" since the late 60's. Only 13 stations, but there were three from Detroit, three from Cleveland, and three from Erie, PA. So we pretty much had every Tigers, every Indians, every Pirates, every Expos (on CBC, then every Jays and some Expos). Those stations also showed the double headers, too. Plus NBC Games of the Week. Kind of golden age!!

 

[LadyStanley]

MLB Oakland's new affiliation is Las Vegas. Brand new stadium opening for next season. Literally next to VGK practice arena.

With all their stadium issues, wouldn't it be interesting if they moved to Vegas, following Raiders.

 

[MikeCubs]

MLB Oakland's new affiliation is Las Vegas. Brand new stadium opening for next season. Literally next to VGK practice arena.

With all their stadium issues, wouldn't it be interesting if they moved to Vegas, following Raiders.

Not going to happen. Oakland is going to build a privately funded park downtown at Howard Terminal or if that falls through the Coliseum site.
I doubt Vegas is going to spend more public $$$ on a domed ballpark after giving the Raiders $750M.

The A's are trying to buy the Coliseum site for $135M. They want to do a redevelopment there regardless of where the ballpark goes. The A's obstacle of getting a park was the Raiders. Both teams wanted to develop the Coliseum land(The Raiders also wanted $400M in public $$$). Before the Raiders relocation was approved Roger Goodall asked the mayor to do an early termination of the A's Coliseum lease and give the land to the Raiders. She replied back that doing that was "problematic".

Raiders' move to Las Vegas looks like a certain bet

The Raiders themselves in the article above admitted the city picked the A's and there was nothing wrong with that.

On the day the NFL announced the relocation of the Raiders to Las Vegas one hour after the announcement the Oakland A's team president came down to city hall along with the team mascot Stomper to raise an Oakland A's flag over city hall(signifying the A's victory over the Raiders).

Oakland Mayor Literally Raises A's Flag Over City Hall An Hour After Raiders-To-Vegas Vote | East Bay Express

Right after the Raiders announcement the A's went with a "Rooted in Oakland" marketing campaign.

'Rooted in Oakland': A's Committed to East Bay

Team president Dave Kaval expects with a new ballpark the A's will be in the top quartile in spending on players.

Rooted in Oakland: A’s president Dave Kaval provides hope

Oakland isn't like Tampa where you need a bunch of public $$$ since the market would be barely passable with a new park(though much improved by Tampa standards).

The only obstacle left is passing a Howard Terminal environmental review. The legislature passed a bill last month to help the A's streamline construction.

Legislature passes bill to help Oakland A's streamline construction of a Howard Terminal stadium

 

[Melrose Munch]

Not going to happen. Oakland is going to build a privately funded park downtown at Howard Terminal or if that falls through the Coliseum site.
I doubt Vegas is going to spend more public $$$ on a domed ballpark after giving the Raiders $750M.

The A's are trying to buy the Coliseum site for $135M. They want to do a redevelopment there regardless of where the ballpark goes. The A's obstacle of getting a park was the Raiders. Both teams wanted to develop the Coliseum land(The Raiders also wanted $400M in public $$$). Before the Raiders relocation was approved Roger Goodall asked the mayor to do an early termination of the A's Coliseum lease and give the land to the Raiders. She replied back that doing that was "problematic".

Raiders' move to Las Vegas looks like a certain bet

The Raiders themselves in the article above admitted the city picked the A's and there was nothing wrong with that.

On the day the NFL announced the relocation of the Raiders to Las Vegas one hour after the announcement the Oakland A's team president came down to city hall along with the team mascot Stomper to raise an Oakland A's flag over city hall(signifying the A's victory over the Raiders).

Oakland Mayor Literally Raises A's Flag Over City Hall An Hour After Raiders-To-Vegas Vote | East Bay Express

Right after the Raiders announcement the A's went with a "Rooted in Oakland" marketing campaign.

'Rooted in Oakland': A's Committed to East Bay

Team president Dave Kaval expects with a new ballpark the A's will be in the top quartile in spending on players.

Rooted in Oakland: A’s president Dave Kaval provides hope

Oakland isn't like Tampa where you need a bunch of public $$$ since the market would be barely passable with a new park(though much improved by Tampa standards).

The only obstacle left is passing a Howard Terminal environmental review. The legislature passed a bill last month to help the A's streamline construction.

Legislature passes bill to help Oakland A's streamline construction of a Howard Terminal stadium

They said this 12 years ago imo.

 

[MikeCubs]

They said this 12 years ago imo.

12 years ago the Raiders were still in Oakland as were the Warriors so that was a totally different scenario. Both are gone soon. There was only enough land to develop to keep 1 team. With no tax dollars being available and 3 teams the city/previous mayors like Quan were paralyzed on what to do/which team to pick. Once the Warriors figured out they could privately finance a San Francisco arena they were gone and there was nothing Oakland could do. The Warriors are doing something never seen outside the NFL with the new arena. They are selling PSL's.

Warriors unveil personal seat licenses for Chase Arena: Interest-free loans or good investment?

So it became Raiders vs. A's. Libby Schaff the current mayor wasn't afraid to pick a team unlike previous mayors. She was for the 81 home games(and no tax $$$) vs. the 8 for football(and $400M going to the Raiders). The A's now have the site to themselves to develop. If they choose Howard Terminal they are going to do additional development on that.

The A's recently hired 2 architects one to design a park and another for the water front development if Howard Terminal is chosen.

Oakland A's hire design-forward architect to oversee new ballpark

The A's are being phased out of revenue sharing. MLB's 15 biggest markets demographically are not eligible for revenue sharing but the A's were allowed to have revenue sharing until a new park opened. MLB ended it last CBA regardless or a new park or not.

A's being phased out of revenue sharing, so ballpark urgency

This is why there is so much urgency to open a park in 2023 besides things breaking there way with the Raiders leaving.