OT: MLB commish - Las Vegas being considered for expansion team

[adsfan]

Honestly ballparks are better off with a Seattle type cover rather than a Miami, Houston, Toronto, Milwaukee enclosed roof.

Harder configuration to close than a football stadium.

In Miami, the sun and humidity are awful! You need the AC down there, especially if you are a visitor from a temperate area. When the Marlins played at Joe Robbie, they couldn't draw flies for a day game.

In Milwaukee, you may have snow for Opening Day. It gets cold at times in early to mid April and late September or early October. My wife used to buy loose Halloween costumes for the kids in case they had to wear their winter coats under it. (It happened at least twice that I remember). Miller Park can be heated 30 F above the outdoor temperature. With the outfield walls and the roof open, it feels and plays like an outdoor stadium. I go to 3 or 4 games a year. The Midwest can get very windy at times. I remember hiding in the men's room at Milwaukee County Stadium a few times because of the wind chill. They had heaters and you could thaw out before going back to your seat. The fan shaped roof closes in 10 minutes or less and makes watching the Brewers a lot more pleasant on many days. On average, the roof is closed 34 games a season or 42% of the time. In 2006, it was closed 49 times. In 2009 and 2012, it was closed 24 times, to give you the high and the low for 17 seasons. The Brewers average 1 million more fans in the 42,000 seat Miller Park versus the 53,000 seat Milwaukee County Stadium. You will be warm and dry and see a game despite wind and rain.

Toronto gives you an outdoors feel, but I have only seen one game at the then Skydome and that was in mid June.

I have never been to Houston.

 

[adsfan]

They did that in 1959 with the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers though. I think if Oakland left for Portland or Vancouver BC it would not be the end of the world, just imo. And maybe Florida needs only one team.

Selig said publically he regretted the A's leaving Philly when he was a kid. The A's have a better history imo.

Are you sure about that? Selig was born and raised in Milwaukee. He also used some elements of Ebbets Field in the Miller Park design. It would make more sense if he said that about the Brooklyn Dodgers, a NL team like the Milwaukee Braves were from 1953 to 1965. Selig was born in 1934, he would have been 19 when the Braves moved here and was 23 when the Dodgers moved and was 20 when the A's decided to move to KC in October of 1954.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Are you sure about that? Selig was born and raised in Milwaukee. He also used some elements of Ebbets Field in the Miller Park design. It would make more sense if he said that about the Brooklyn Dodgers, a NL team like the Milwaukee Braves were from 1953 to 1965. Selig was born in 1934, he would have been 19 when the Braves moved here and was 23 when the Dodgers moved and was 20 when the A's decided to move to KC in October of 1954.

I saw a quote some time ago with Selig maligning Oakland.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

With the outfield walls and the roof open, it feels and plays like an outdoor stadium.

Miller Park doesn't feel like an outdoor stadium at all.

 

[adsfan]

I saw a quote some time ago with Selig maligning Oakland.

I went past the OC in 1978 on BART. It looked like a dump, which was surprising after they won 3 WS in a row a few years before. I have heard that it is a lot worse now, which is hard to believe. That team has needed a new stadium for years. The field is significantly below ground level, maybe 30 or 40 feet. The playing surface has to be below sea level. I could see where it would have drainage and sewer problems just from the design.

 

[adsfan]

Miller Park doesn't feel like an outdoor stadium at all.

If you sit from third base to first base, I would agree. The air can be dead near Home Plate due to the two fixed sections of the roof and the grandstand.

If you sit anywhere else, I would disagree. With the walls open, it can be breezy down the lines, in the outfield seats and the bleachers. I sat in what was the Dew Deck a few times and you can feel the breeze up there. I have probably seen 70 games at Miller Park. I don't think I have ever been there in April, but I have attended games in the other months of the baseball season. In the summer, the wind usually comes from the southwest or the west. (From behind Home Plate for the out of towners. Home to third base is just a little north of due East) In the late afternoons, you can get the wind from the east (off of Lake Michigan) although it isn't as strong at Miller Park as it is in my neighborhood, a mile from the lake. In the fall, the wind tends to come from the northwest to the north (Home to center field and Home to first base respectively).

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Went to the game on June 24th, a fairly strong SE wind and I only occasionally felt the wind, like maybe a couple seconds every few minutes. The walls are just so high that you never actually feel like you're outside.

 

[KevFu]

Fair but does Oakland draw well? I thinknthays the difference.

Well, they don’t draw now because they played in an aging dump, renovated the aging dump for FOOTBALL to appease Al Davis; and they’ve been a broke, “small market” organization for 20 years.

A new modern stadium with modern revenue streams would do wonders for them.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I went past the OC in 1978 on BART. It looked like a dump, which was surprising after they won 3 WS in a row a few years before. I have heard that it is a lot worse now, which is hard to believe. That team has needed a new stadium for years. The field is significantly below ground level, maybe 30 or 40 feet. The playing surface has to be below sea level. I could see where it would have drainage and sewer problems just from the design.

Im not suprised at all. The location of that stadium is so bad. All kt has going dor it is the transit acecess. Ill have to find the selig quote.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Im not suprised at all. The location of that stadium is so bad. All kt has going dor it is the transit acecess. Ill have to find the selig quote.

If I was A’s i would submit development plan for the entire area and demolish the coliseum and build a new one there.

Like what Braves did.

 

[KevFu]

If I was A’s i would submit development plan for the entire area and demolish the coliseum and build a new one there.

Like what Braves did.

The Braves? They moved from downtown to Cobb County... or you mean what the Braves did when they built Turner?

The A's have made an offer to buy the Coliseum site from the city & county so they could develop the whole thing themselves.

 

[tony d]

Got to think all 4 major sports leagues are going to have a team in Vegas within the next 15-20 yrs. if not sooner. The NHL laid the groundwork, will be interesting to see how the other leagues do in going to Vegas.

 

[StreetHawk]

Got to think all 4 major sports leagues are going to have a team in Vegas within the next 15-20 yrs. if not sooner. The NHL laid the groundwork, will be interesting to see how the other leagues do in going to Vegas.

Raiders will be arriving soon. Just a matter of the NBA iMo. They would do well because players would want to go there thus hey shouldn’t be bad for long periods of time.

Baseball, I don’t see it working.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Unless there’s a dramatic rise in metro population Vegas can’t sustain all 4 teams.

 

[KevFu]

Unless there’s a dramatic rise in metro population Vegas can’t sustain all 4 teams.

Vegas has massive corporate money, they'll be fine.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Vegas has massive corporate money, they'll be fine.

Do they? I don't think casinos are enough to sustain 4 major league teams. Need Fortune 500 companies, multiple of them.

 

[KevFu]

Do they? I don't think casinos are enough to sustain 4 major league teams. Need Fortune 500 companies, multiple of them.

There are casinos that are Fortune 500 companies. With the cut throat casino/hotel business, they'll all have tons of ad revenue.

 

[voyageur]

I guess it's foreseeable that all the major leagues will have 32 teams soon.

Baseball I think should go to four divisions per league, with a pair of wild cards, like the NFL. Expand to Montreal and San Antonio, which is probably safer than Mexico City. Switch Colorado and Tampa in leagues.

National League

WEST
San Fran
L..A
San Diego
Arizona

CENTRAL
Chicago Cubs
St. Louis
Milwaukee
Cincinnatti

EAST
Montreal
Mets
Philly
Pittsburgh

SOUTH
Washington
Atlanta
Tampa
Miami

(Can look at moving Tampa to Charlotte)


American League

WEST
Seattle
Colorado
Oakland/S.J (Vegas)
Anaheim

NORTH
Minnesota
Chicago W.S.
Detroit
Cleveland

MIDWEST
Kansas City
Texas
Houston
SanAntonio

EAST
Boston
Yanks
Toronto
Baltimore

 

[KevFu]

My two ideas would be #1:

SF, LA, SD, ARZ
CHC, STL, MIL, HOU
PIT, MON, NYM, PHI
WAS, CIN, ATL, MIA

SEA, OAK, LAA, COL
MIN, CWS, KC, TEX,
DET, CLE, TB, Charlotte/Nashville
BOS, NYY, BAL, TOR

#2 -

American League: CWS, MIN, KC, DET, CLE, BOS, NYY, BAL
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, ATL, CIN, PIT, PHI, Nashville/Charlotte
Pacific League: SF, LAD, SD, ARZ, COL, SEA, OAK, LAA
Continental League: NYM, WAS, MON, TOR, TB, MIA, HOU, TEX

 

[LadyStanley]

Raiders will be arriving soon. Just a matter of the NBA iMo. They would do well because players would want to go there thus hey shouldn’t be bad for long periods of time.

Baseball, I don’t see it working.

Las Vegas does have pro soccer (FC Lights), pro baseball (51s) and pro basketball (Aces). Now those aren't the major league MEN's sports, but they do have that. And the Raiders are coming. 51s are getting a brand-spanking new stadium right next to the VGK practice facility. Ground has been broken. Perhaps it'll be ready for next season.

Unless there’s a dramatic rise in metro population Vegas can’t sustain all 4 teams.

Las Vegas is the 6th fastest growing city in the US.

Do they? I don't think casinos are enough to sustain 4 major league teams. Need Fortune 500 companies, multiple of them.

There are other businesses in the valley, including an Amazon hub. Not all businesses are entertainment nor gaming.

These Are The 100 Largest Companies In Nevada
Now a lot of those companies are entertainment/gaming related, but there are others.

Switch has a location to help companies with their web traffic.


Realize that some sponsors may not be local, but national, as well.

 

[BattleBorn]

Las Vegas would be the smallest MLB market by far, and MLB's financial structure isn't kind to small market teams.

LV is at least a million people, a billion dollar stadium, and a multibillionaire potential owner away from making an MLB team even close to work, IMO.

 

[KevFu]

Las Vegas would be the smallest MLB market by far, and MLB's financial structure isn't kind to small market teams.

LV is at least a million people, a billion dollar stadium, and a multibillionaire potential owner away from making an MLB team even close to work, IMO.

Vegas would be the fifth smallest metro area.

26. Pittsburgh
28. Vegas
29. Cincinnati
30. Kansas City
33. Cleveland
39. Milwaukee


The money in Vegas is there. The long-term viability of a franchise depend on the expensive seats/suites being sold, not how many Joe Sixpacks buy upper bowl seats.

 

[BattleBorn]

Vegas would be the fifth smallest metro area.

26. Pittsburgh
28. Vegas
29. Cincinnati
30. Kansas City
33. Cleveland
39. Milwaukee


The money in Vegas is there. The long-term viability of a franchise depend on the expensive seats/suites being sold, not how many Joe Sixpacks buy upper bowl seats.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to media markets. Pittsburgh has western Pennsylvania, Cincinnati has Kentucky and Southern Ohio, Kansas City has western Missouri and most of Kansas/Nebraska, etc. etc. etc.

Las Vegas has the Las Vegas Valley, Tonopah, Kingman, AZ, and perhaps St. George. It's a small media market for baseball unless MLB hooks a Las Vegas team up the way the NHL did. It's also worth considering that MLB already considers Las Vegas home territory for six teams.

 

[KevFu]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to media markets. Pittsburgh has western Pennsylvania, Cincinnati has Kentucky and Southern Ohio, Kansas City has western Missouri and most of Kansas/Nebraska, etc. etc. etc.

Las Vegas has the Las Vegas Valley, Tonopah, Kingman, AZ, and perhaps St. George. It's a small media market for baseball unless MLB hooks a Las Vegas team up the way the NHL did. It's also worth considering that MLB already considers Las Vegas home territory for six teams.

Yeah, it's all how they carve up the map. But you have to think they'd be relatively generous. For starters, any fan loyal to another team within that area is a potential MLBTV customer for out-of-market games.

I don't think Vegas is a likely destination for MLB as team #32, at all. (Their $150 million minor league stadium with a 10,000 capacity is under construction. (No government is going to approve a new MLB stadium that renders that obsolete that fast. The shortest MLB stadium tenure was Atlanta, which was built for the Olympics and retrofitted for baseball.)


I'm just saying that on this site, there's a tendency to use over-simplified but easily quantified data rather than a deeper assessment of what really matters in the business of sports. We've had dozens and dozens of examples of teams with lousy attendance that have never been in any real danger of moving. We still have people using year-to-year profit/loss as if franchises were mom & pop stores and not part of corporate empires with spending set to the desired result.

Attendance/ticket sales is misleading because people act like there's XX,000 seats, and the average price is XX dollars, so each person is worth the same. They're not. Selling out 5000 suite capacity is probably getting you more revenue than selling out the other 30,000 seats.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Nashville - I'm not sure if the 3-year old First Tennessee Park can be converted or not. Home of the Triple-A Nashville Sounds- Sounds would have to relocate to another city in the Pacific Coast League's footprint

Reaching waaaaaaaaaay back to quote, but no way it could. It's a beautiful park but it's small and it's essentially in a residential neighborhood...I mean, a lot of people park on the street to go to games. Not nearly the right area to sustain a pro sports franchise.