OT: MLB commish - Las Vegas being considered for expansion team

MikeCubs

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May 30, 2018
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FYI kudos to the A's for breaking away from HOK and hiring something fresh for a new park. Dave Kaval the team president has also met with 2 ballpark super fans who have come up with some cool ideas like incorporating the cranes at Howard Terminal into the park and having fake little crains as the light towers on the upper deck. Almost for sure they are going to break away from the traditional model of having mid level suites and put them on top of the upper deck instead thus making the upper deck seats really close like at old Tiger Stadium

Check out the pics!!! Something like this would be awesome

If They Build It, I Will Go | Uni Watch


The A's are proposing aerial gondolas to the site if they pic it.

A's: Aerial gondola could deliver fans to proposed ballpark
 
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snovalleyhockeyfan

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That's what I wonder about with Seattle expansion, since much of western Montana is usually lumped into that media market. Interested in how they sort that out.

Washington state and Oregon perhaps.

The map in KevFu's post (116) will be a good guide for what will probably end up being the Seattle NHL market. Look for it to encompass all areas that are currently taken by the Mariners in MLB (WA, much of OR except for Medford/Klamath Falls/Grants Pass, ID except eastern part including Pocatello/Idaho Falls although there you might see a share with Avalanche, AK and at least western half of MT although the eastern half could also be a share with COL).

Root Sports reaches into all of these areas, and would likely be able to telecast games to much if not all this area.
 

Centrum Hockey

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12 years ago the Raiders were still in Oakland as were the Warriors so that was a totally different scenario. Both are gone soon. There was only enough land to develop to keep 1 team. With no tax dollars being available and 3 teams the city/previous mayors like Quan were paralyzed on what to do/which team to pick. Once the Warriors figured out they could privately finance a San Francisco arena they were gone and there was nothing Oakland could do. The Warriors are doing something never seen outside the NFL with the new arena. They are selling PSL's.

Warriors unveil personal seat licenses for Chase Arena: Interest-free loans or good investment?

So it became Raiders vs. A's. Libby Schaff the current mayor wasn't afraid to pick a team unlike previous mayors. She was for the 81 home games(and no tax $$$) vs. the 8 for football(and $400M going to the Raiders). The A's now have the site to themselves to develop. If they choose Howard Terminal they are going to do additional development on that.

The A's recently hired 2 architects one to design a park and another for the water front development if Howard Terminal is chosen.

Oakland A's hire design-forward architect to oversee new ballpark

The A's are being phased out of revenue sharing. MLB's 15 biggest markets demographically are not eligible for revenue sharing but the A's were allowed to have revenue sharing until a new park opened. MLB ended it last CBA regardless or a new park or not.

A's being phased out of revenue sharing, so ballpark urgency

This is why there is so much urgency to open a park in 2023 besides things breaking there way with the Raiders leaving.
The nba gave the bucks a deadline to get a arena done or they whould have had to take action themselves mlb needs to give the a’s the same treatment Sources: Provision could let NBA buy Bucks
 

MikeCubs

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The nba gave the bucks a deadline to get a arena done or they whould have had to take action themselves mlb needs to give the a’s the same treatment Sources: Provision could let NBA buy Bucks

MLB did do something similar. They cut off/phased out revenue sharing. No revenue sharing and playing in the Coliseum is a massive motivation to get a real park. Manfred said at the all star break he is pleased with the way things are heading in Oakland and that it would be a mistake to leave Oakland and that there is no better open market.
Rob Manfred says it would be 'a mistake' if A's leave Oakland

MLB commissioner Manfred confident Rays owner is ‘going to get’ stadium deal done

MLB Commissioner Confident Oakland A's Can Get New Ballpark

MLB isn't going to make threats unless things slow down/stop going their way. Right now things are going great. The Raiders left, the city has entered into an exclusive negotiating period to sell the A's the coliseum land plus it was the mayor who championed the legislation to limit the lawsuits against the A's on environmental grounds to 9 months.

The plan is to have a site picked and funding plan done by the end of the year. Then it's 2 years of environmental review followed by a hopeful groundbreaking in 2021 with a park opening in 2023.
 
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LadyStanley

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FWIW, the Coliseum land includes the (old) NBA Golden State Warriors who are building their own new arena across the bay in San Francisco.

(So that land can be used as well for any ball park footprint change)
 

MikeCubs

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FWIW, the Coliseum land includes the (old) NBA Golden State Warriors who are building their own new arena across the bay in San Francisco.

(So that land can be used as well for any ball park footprint change)

Kaval mentioned keeping it like they kept the Inglewood Forum and using it as a concert venue. The Forum since MSG renovated it has been extremely successful as a concert only venue.

I think ultimately the A's build at Howard Terminal and they redevelop the Coliseum site. Howard Terminal is absolutely 100% the A's preference. They want something similar the AT&T park and want downtown. The only way they go with the Coliseum is if transportation issues can't be worked out/cost too much at Howard Terminal or if lawsuits/opposition sink it.
 

KevFu

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I really want the A's and Rays to get stadium deals done so their franchises become more stable and they can work on finding a 32nd team to join with Montreal. Number 1, I'd like to see the Expos back in the NL where they belong. And No 2, there's so many ways to fix problems with baseball if you have 32 teams instead of 30 (Even though I doubt they'd actually go to a more balanced schedule and 8-team divisions).


As for the whole Miami, Tampa and Oakland don't draw thing...

The Tampa stadium location is a huge factor. People talk about in the inconvenience of a downtown stadium elsewhere and people fighting traffic. But when you're centrally located, it obviously reduces the transit fight for everyone in the market.

The Tampa-St. Pete DMA has four counties and 2.67 million people. Only 34% live in the St. Pete county. The other 66% are fighting that transit.


Miami doesn't draw either, but I think that's more of the fact that Loria killed the interest in their fans by being a jerk repeatedly (as he did in Montreal), and then when you have new ownership replacing the great satan... they immediately trade five all-stars: Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, Gordon and Bour. And of course, that's coming on the heels of ace Jose Fernandez's tragic death. They've had five good seasons and four fire sales, and 20 years of being terrible. With normal ebbs and flows of a franchise...without Loria and an immediate firesale, they can KEEP FANS after a period of success.
 

MikeCubs

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I really want the A's and Rays to get stadium deals done so their franchises become more stable and they can work on finding a 32nd team to join with Montreal. Number 1, I'd like to see the Expos back in the NL where they belong. And No 2, there's so many ways to fix problems with baseball if you have 32 teams instead of 30 (Even though I doubt they'd actually go to a more balanced schedule and 8-team divisions).


As for the whole Miami, Tampa and Oakland don't draw thing...

The Tampa stadium location is a huge factor. People talk about in the inconvenience of a downtown stadium elsewhere and people fighting traffic. But when you're centrally located, it obviously reduces the transit fight for everyone in the market.

The Tampa-St. Pete DMA has four counties and 2.67 million people. Only 34% live in the St. Pete county. The other 66% are fighting that transit.


Miami doesn't draw either, but I think that's more of the fact that Loria killed the interest in their fans by being a jerk repeatedly (as he did in Montreal), and then when you have new ownership replacing the great satan... they immediately trade five all-stars: Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, Gordon and Bour. And of course, that's coming on the heels of ace Jose Fernandez's tragic death. They've had five good seasons and four fire sales, and 20 years of being terrible. With normal ebbs and flows of a franchise...without Loria and an immediate firesale, they can KEEP FANS after a period of success.

I 100% agree with you on Miami and Tampa.

I consider Miami to have had 2 fire sales the 97 title team and 2003 title team. Loria is HORRIBLE but I don't blame him for the Blue Jays trade. That was a last place team and other than Mark Buehrle none of the traded players did anything and Buehrle was old and played only 2.5 more productive seasons. Jose Reyes was an overpaid bust, Josh Johnson was hurt and had 1 season with a 6+ERA and that was it.

I don't fault the new ownership for starting over. The farm system was empty thanks to Loria, the MLB roster had no pitching thanks to Wei-Yin Chen being a bust and the Fernandez death. Fans wanted Jeter to sign free agent pitchers but all of them were busts this off-season other than Arrieta and he had plenty of red flags(declining velocity/stats). By the time the Marlins developed their system/pitching Stanton, Ozuna, Yelich would have been in their decline years. However I don't think the Marlins got enough for Yelich.

Read this a while back on Tampa

snip

Just 615,000 people, less than one fifth of Tampa Bay’s population, were estimated to live within a half-hour drive of the Rays current home in 2010 when the a group called the ABC Coalition compiled a study.

If the Rays were to take the field today at —let’s call it Cigar City Stadium — they would draw from a population of almost 920,000 people within a 10 mile radius.

Widen that to 15 miles and the numbers swell to 1.2 million people, according to an analysis by county planners in both Hillsborough and Pinellas conducted at the request of the Tampa Bay Times.

Sykes Enterprise CEO Chuck Sykes, co-founder of booster group Rays 2020, said at a recent community meeting he has calculated the population within a half hour drive at 1.6 million.

A consultant hired by the Rays projects that by 2025, when the team may be settling into new digs, some 1.6 million people will live within a half-hour drive of an Ybor City ballpark. That number would rise to 2 million by 2045, the consultant told the team, which shared some of its data with the Times.

"The initial honeymoon effect of a new stadium will increase attendance a lot — probably by a million or more," Noll said. "But the honeymoon will wear off in a few years, and the new location is probably worth an additional attendance of 200,000 to 300,000 a few years down the road."

Rays move to Ybor City would put team within heart of region’s population, study shows
 

MikeCubs

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Some A's news from the fan who helped the A's with the stadium design and got to meet with the team president last month.

#Athletics new ballpark (if Howard Terminal location) will, per sources, likely:

* Be an intimate two deck park

* Be closest to JLS side of HT

* Face SE w/ views of Estuary and JLS

* Integrate existing 213’ tall shipping cranes

* repurpose historic power plant building


Keep in mind Fenway Parks Green Monster is only 37 feet high and dominates left field. Imagine a couple 213 crains towering over right field. If the A's can pull this off at Howard Terminal they will definitely have a top 5 MLB park.

howard_term-14-boat_view.jpg


This is the direction the park would face

DnaRZ9QVYAAlKEV.jpg
 
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Melrose Munch

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12 years ago the Raiders were still in Oakland as were the Warriors so that was a totally different scenario. Both are gone soon. There was only enough land to develop to keep 1 team. With no tax dollars being available and 3 teams the city/previous mayors like Quan were paralyzed on what to do/which team to pick. Once the Warriors figured out they could privately finance a San Francisco arena they were gone and there was nothing Oakland could do. The Warriors are doing something never seen outside the NFL with the new arena. They are selling PSL's.

Warriors unveil personal seat licenses for Chase Arena: Interest-free loans or good investment?

So it became Raiders vs. A's. Libby Schaff the current mayor wasn't afraid to pick a team unlike previous mayors. She was for the 81 home games(and no tax $$$) vs. the 8 for football(and $400M going to the Raiders). The A's now have the site to themselves to develop. If they choose Howard Terminal they are going to do additional development on that.

The A's recently hired 2 architects one to design a park and another for the water front development if Howard Terminal is chosen.

Oakland A's hire design-forward architect to oversee new ballpark

The A's are being phased out of revenue sharing. MLB's 15 biggest markets demographically are not eligible for revenue sharing but the A's were allowed to have revenue sharing until a new park opened. MLB ended it last CBA regardless or a new park or not.

A's being phased out of revenue sharing, so ballpark urgency

This is why there is so much urgency to open a park in 2023 besides things breaking there way with the Raiders leaving.
Some A's news from the fan who helped the A's with the stadium design and got to meet with the team president last month.

#Athletics new ballpark (if Howard Terminal location) will, per sources, likely:

* Be an intimate two deck park

* Be closest to JLS side of HT

* Face SE w/ views of Estuary and JLS

* Integrate existing 213’ tall shipping cranes

* repurpose historic power plant building


Keep in mind Fenway Parks Green Monster is only 37 feet high and dominates left field. Imagine a couple 213 crains towering over right field. If the A's can pull this off at Howard Terminal they will definitely have a top 5 MLB park.

howard_term-14-boat_view.jpg


This is the direction the park would face

DnaRZ9QVYAAlKEV.jpg
This is very nice to hear, but what does the funding look like?
 

MikeCubs

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This is very nice to hear, but what does the funding look like?

The A's will fund the entire cost of the park at either site. They are in the process of buying the Coliseum land. They are also have been in talks for a couple months with the port of Oakland to buy the Howard Terminal site. Infrastructure is up in the air. In the past the mayor said the city would contribute $200M. Howard Terminal is going to be expensive infrastructure wise. The soil on Howard Terminal is contaminated and has to be cleaned. BART is 3/4ths/1 mile(ish) away from Howard Terminal and can't be extended so you have to be able to get people from BART to the park.

BART GM squashes hope of new station for new A's stadium

To the North of the site there are train tracks. You will need overpasses over them.

ebt-l-howard-01xx-5.jpg


Then there are the aerial gondolas. The A's expect them to be able to move 4,000 to 6,000 people per hour. Nearby Schnitzer Steel will have to be relocated. Schnitzer Steel is a metal recycling plant that works at night and they do constant pounding. You'd hear POUND-POUND-POUND all game if they remained.

The A's have bought a building next to Howard Terminal to turn into a retail space or ballpark exhibit.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfran...athletics-lease-howard-terminal-coliseum.html
 

MikeCubs

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Here is the full plan/timeline

A's seem to be leaning hard HT, but Coliseum on parallel path.
A's realize "showstoppers" for HT still possible, especially during environmental review.
Gondola between HT and downtown Oakland to be studied.

Kaval thinks "transportation problems can be solved" at HT, using gondola, ferries, biking, walking, and dispersed parking.
Downtown park prompts fans to arrive early, stay late, helping with traffic.
A's want land deal by end '18, with economic terms set on preferred site.
 

MikeCubs

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May 30, 2018
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Here is the entire site on a map in relation to Oakland. The ballpark would go on the right hand side on the bottom, development on the left portion.

howard-718x563.jpg


I delete the my 1st pic above and found this blown up pic which shows the site better. Where the shipping containers are is where development would go. On the bottom right hand side by the crains would be the park

3NickT2.jpg
 
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patnyrnyg

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Vegas is in the process of building Las Vegas Ballpark in Summerlin to replace the 35-year old Cashman Field. At present the new park is set to open in 2019, but I've no idea if it could be expanded into being an MLB-ready park (and doubtful it could be converted into a climate controlled park).

One other aspect to consider in MLB is that if MLB expands by just a single team, Minor League Baseball would have to expand by at least 4 or likely 5 new teams (similarly two teams would require an MiLB expansion of 8-10 teams) and that's not counting finding a new market for any extant MiLB teams that get displaced. If, for instance, Vegas becomes an expansion team, a market would have to be found for the Vegas 51s to relocate to AND a market would need to be found for Vegas's full season affiliates.
Expanding MiLB will not be a problem. Relocating the 51's will not be a problem. There are more than enough potential minor league markets. This will be the least of MLB's worries if they decide to expand.
 

patnyrnyg

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My two ideas would be #1:

SF, LA, SD, ARZ
CHC, STL, MIL, HOU
PIT, MON, NYM, PHI
WAS, CIN, ATL, MIA

SEA, OAK, LAA, COL
MIN, CWS, KC, TEX,
DET, CLE, TB, Charlotte/Nashville
BOS, NYY, BAL, TOR

#2 -

American League: CWS, MIN, KC, DET, CLE, BOS, NYY, BAL
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, ATL, CIN, PIT, PHI, Nashville/Charlotte
Pacific League: SF, LAD, SD, ARZ, COL, SEA, OAK, LAA
Continental League: NYM, WAS, MON, TOR, TB, MIA, HOU, TEX

I always love re-alignment chatter. My idea would be assuming, no league swapping.
AL
East- Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles
North- Indians, White Sox, Twins, Tigers
South-Rays, Rangers, Astros, New Team or Royals
West- A's (assuming not moving), Angels, Mariners, new team or Royals


NL
East- Mets, Phillies, Expos, Pirates
North- Cubs, Cardinals, Reds, Brewers
South-Braves, Rockies, Marlins, Nationals
West-Dodgers, Padres, Giants, DBacks

The Rockies are the odd-team out. Could swap Rockies and DBacks, but I can't imagine they would want a division with 3 ETZ teams and 1 PTZ team. Could also swap Reds and Rockies, but they will want to keep the Cubs-Reds-Cards together, imo.
 

LadyStanley

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Expanding MiLB will not be a problem. Relocating the 51's will not be a problem. There are more than enough potential minor league markets. This will be the least of MLB's worries if they decide to expand.

FWIW, Cashman field is still being used. By the local soccer team, FC Lights.

"51s" are being relocated from NE/Downtown, to west/Summerlin.

The new facility is not big enough for MLB baseball (which seems to want 30k stadium). 8k "comfy" seats, 10k capacity.
 

KevFu

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If any city would go from building a brand-new AAA stadium to turning around 5-10 years later and building a MLB stadium, it would be Las Vegas. The massive casino industry has the money to privately finance a stadium.
 

LadyStanley

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If any city would go from building a brand-new AAA stadium to turning around 5-10 years later and building a MLB stadium, it would be Las Vegas. The massive casino industry has the money to privately finance a stadium.

But that means that MGM or Caesars (or other) will have to have ownership interest and/or know they'll be able to get good ROI on such a stadium.

What does MLB think of that kind of ownership?

(FWIW, MGM owns the home of the VGK.)
 

KevFu

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I always love re-alignment chatter. My idea would be assuming, no league swapping.

The Rockies are the odd-team out. Could swap Rockies and DBacks, but I can't imagine they would want a division with 3 ETZ teams and 1 PTZ team. Could also swap Reds and Rockies, but they will want to keep the Cubs-Reds-Cards together, imo.

I don't think they'd try to shoe-horn COL into a division with the ETZ teams. Because the AL West has three PTZ teams and 2 CTZ teams (one of which spent 50 years in the NL), I think it makes more sense to embrace some swapping.

While each team has veto rights on a league change, I think two factors make it likely a switch or two happens:
#1 - There's 8 teams in the MTZ/PTZ (without knowing who is expanding). Whatever the schedule, it would behoove COL to be in the West for TV revenue. They can sell more TV ads when they're playing at 7 and 8 pm local, than at 5 p.m local.

#2 - The DH is going to come to the NL at some point, and probably sooner rather than later. The MLBPA is going to want it in the next CBA (because that means 15 more "Starters" making more money than bench players.

The NL owners, who have fought it for decades over financial reasons are facing the new reality of modern baseball. And those include:
- Starting pitchers throwing less and less innings per game. This is crushing the old "NL Strategy Argument." The choice of "leave him in or take him out" is almost never a difficult decision, it's basically automatic. It IS more entertaining to see what moves are made late in games when the pitcher's spot comes up.

- Analytics are showing GMs that the best way to be successful is limiting RISK. This mostly applies to free agency. Teams who are underachieving are doing so because they were counting on players signed to big money, and those guys end up being hurt. The DH is a way to reduce risk.

Take the Mets for example. They've got awesome starting pitching, and at times this year, their lineup of DL'd players is more impressive than their lineup of healthy players. Bruce, Cespedes, Conforto, Wright. All of those guys not only have been hurt, but have PLAYED HURT because they didn't think it was bad enough to warrant a DL stint and made things worse. David Wright lost his career because he broke a bone in his back making a tag... and played 22 more games before realizing he wasn't right. Bruce this year did the same thing. He could barely move in the OF.

The DH lets you get guys in those scenarios off their feet in the field. Let them DH for a while until they feel healthy enough to take the field. And when they don't feel healthy and get a second opinion and go on the DL, they've done a lot less damage.

- A huge part of reducing risk is the fact that starting pitchers make big money and no one wants to risk their ace getting hurt batting, like when Jacob deGrom missed a start because he hyperextended his elbow SWINGING THE BAT. Or when the Yankees had a pitcher pull both hammies on the bases in interleague.


Personally, I'd advocate for a revised DH rule to be adopted by both leagues: one player is designated for the STARTING pitcher only. Kind of like volleyball's libero. He's a "free sub" for the SP when the SP is in the game, listed on the lineup card separately. If he is used, he comes out of the game when the SP does. If he's NOT USED, he's eligible off the bench.

This adds strategy to the game. The late-game NL style changes have to be made (in both leagues). Plus you have to decide WHO to DH and where to hit your pitcher's spot. You bat a David Ortiz DH third... well, once your SP is out, you're losing that bat late in the game and your pitcher is in the 3 hole. You can use it to rest guys - big bats taking "a day off" get two ABs and that's it.

If your SP comes to the plate in a sacrifice situation, or with no one on, 2 out. Or you have a SP who can actually hit (Bumgarner, the Mets), just have the SP bat and save your DH guy for later. Or you could use a speed guy at DH if your SP reaches base, he's just a courtesy runner!

But I digress.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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The A's will fund the entire cost of the park at either site. They are in the process of buying the Coliseum land. They are also have been in talks for a couple months with the port of Oakland to buy the Howard Terminal site. Infrastructure is up in the air. In the past the mayor said the city would contribute $200M. Howard Terminal is going to be expensive infrastructure wise. The soil on Howard Terminal is contaminated and has to be cleaned. BART is 3/4ths/1 mile(ish) away from Howard Terminal and can't be extended so you have to be able to get people from BART to the park.

BART GM squashes hope of new station for new A's stadium

To the North of the site there are train tracks. You will need overpasses over them.

ebt-l-howard-01xx-5.jpg


Then there are the aerial gondolas. The A's expect them to be able to move 4,000 to 6,000 people per hour. Nearby Schnitzer Steel will have to be relocated. Schnitzer Steel is a metal recycling plant that works at night and they do constant pounding. You'd hear POUND-POUND-POUND all game if they remained.

The A's have bought a building next to Howard Terminal to turn into a retail space or ballpark exhibit.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfran...athletics-lease-howard-terminal-coliseum.html
Infrastructure costs worry me. Hopefully the city doesn't balk if they rise.
I always love re-alignment chatter. My idea would be assuming, no league swapping.
AL
East- Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles
North- Indians, White Sox, Twins, Tigers
South-Rays, Rangers, Astros, New Team or Royals
West- A's (assuming not moving), Angels, Mariners, new team or Royals


NL
East- Mets, Phillies, Expos, Pirates
North- Cubs, Cardinals, Reds, Brewers
South-Braves, Rockies, Marlins, Nationals
West-Dodgers, Padres, Giants, DBacks

The Rockies are the odd-team out. Could swap Rockies and DBacks, but I can't imagine they would want a division with 3 ETZ teams and 1 PTZ team. Could also swap Reds and Rockies, but they will want to keep the Cubs-Reds-Cards together, imo.
Get the Jays away from the yanks and red sox
 

KevFu

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But that means that MGM or Caesars (or other) will have to have ownership interest and/or know they'll be able to get good ROI on such a stadium.

What does MLB think of that kind of ownership?

(FWIW, MGM owns the home of the VGK.)

As opposed to? I think at one point, sports leagues would be hesitant to welcome a casino owner into the group. But I think society is changing. Owners aren't making the billions they need to become MLB owners by running charities.

The Wilpons were in the Madoff Scheme.
The McCourts were ridiculously unscrupulous, using team accounts to fund the lifestyle.
Angelos was a lawyer. How you make enough money as a litigator to buy an MLB team is beyond me.
Loria has ruined baseball in two cities now.
The Cardinals... one of baseball's most cherished franchises with a long tradition of doing things "the right way" and being second in championships despite being one of the smallest markets... yeah, they've been owned for a half-century or longer by BEER BARONS (the Busch family).

Not to mention, they don't really have a leg to stand on when you look at how many casinos have ads in MLB stadiums (huge credit to the Wisconsin casino: When the Braves or Indians come to town, they actually cover up their own ads as a protest).

With sports gambling legislation changing, I think the perception of a casino owner has changed (Hey, the Maloofs owned NBA teams and the Palms in Las Vegas). And I think the leagues trying to get a cut of gambling action on their sport is going to make a partnership more and more likely.
 

patnyrnyg

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Sep 16, 2004
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#2 - The DH is going to come to the NL at some point, and probably sooner rather than later. The MLBPA is going to want it in the next CBA (because that means 15 more "Starters" making more money than bench players.
I agree and honestly would not be shocked if it is next season. Apparently, the commish is all for it, the players are all for it, and even the NL owners are supposedly leaning this way. Although, not sure it matters for $. Bottom line, still going to have 25 man rosters whether there is a DH or not. I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing teams go to a 14-man pitching staff and just have 2 bench players. With a DH, no need for as many available PH's. In the rare case you lose 3 non-pitchers in a game (ejection, injury, etc), you have a pitcher fill in on field. It will be so rare they will deal with it.
 

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