Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. IV | Out for remainder of 2018-19

[Bleach Clean]

Continue here.

Previous Thread: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/olli-juolevi-pt-iii-off-to-juo-tica.2548913/

Previous Threads:
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/olli-juolevi.2456489/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/olli-juolevi-ii.2507209/

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[LaVar]

What exactly is the point of talking about that now? We’ve already done that for 2 years. No matter what you do, the pick will not be re done, so what is exactly your point of bringing up the fact we could have drafted 3 other guys ?

nothing will be re done, so what is the point of discussing anything? terrible logic.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

nothing will be re done, so what is the point of discussing anything? terrible logic.

Both sides keep bringing it up.

Wish we had a sticky thread where we could move that discussion from Jake Virtanen / Olli Juolevi etc. threads.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

 

[Trelane]

For me between Juolevi and Hughes it's still 50/50 as to who will be the workhorse, or getting more minutes in all situations irrespective of points, for this club in 3-5 years. They both have their issues while defending.

OJ was no worse than half the D in training camp but I guess they're giving him the reverse Virtanen treatment. Zero preferential treatment for high drafted prospects, which is as it should be. Roster contracts also factored in. If he doesn't make it next year I'll be concerned. Thought this trade deadline would be it but if Edler refuses to waive or we're still in the playoff hunt...

 

[beachcomber]

The kid probably wants to go back to Finland.

 

[Luck 6]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

I guess... I think you’re oversimplifying though in this case. You could likely make numerous successful comparisons as well if the comparison is that loose.

I should also note that Jensen broke out in the AHL at age 23 where he scored 32 goals. He’s now PPG in the KHL where he leads his team in PPG / Pace.

 

[Nucker42]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

Not really.

Juolevi was a top d man on his men’s Finnish team last year in the last 30 games. Dali was raving about him.

Since coming over for his 1st AHL season he is currently sitting 1st in d rookie scoring.

I get that there’s some defensive concerns but it’s extremely hard to produce points as a defenseman and it looks like Juolevi is able to do that.

What is he 21? Still very young. I think we have to forget anyone that’s bypassed him and judge him on his own merits. I’m confident that he will get a shot this year and start with the Canucks next year.

 

[Icebreakers]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

Jensen just wasnt good enough though. Juolevi could be a star, his personality and effort is generational trash.

 

[DL44]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

Lol... never crossed mind once... so random...
Late 1st winger and high draft dman..

Different eras, positions, expectations, team situations, GMs... never once did ever think of them together or comparable.

 

[M2Beezy]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

No

 

[groov2]

The kid probably wants to go back to Finland.

Why? I'm fairly confident that he wants to play in the NHL.

 

[groov2]

Juolevi gives me a Nick Jensen vibe:

- Each has played his first OHL season in his draft year.
- Each put up pedestrian totals that year.
- In the next year, D + 1 season, each stagnated offensively.
- Then, in the D + 2 year, both went to Europe and put up respectable totals.
- Coming back to the AHL in their D + 3 year, each still carried the same game deficiencies over (ones cited at the draft).

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

What is pedestrian about 42 points in 57 games for a 17-year-old defenceman in his first year playing in North America?

 

[DL44]

He's the type of prospect that seems destined to become a regular with another club.

Use him as a throw in for another deal this summer.

 

[Nucker101]

I've already written him off entirely at this point, any games he ever plays for the Canucks is just gravy.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I guess... I think you’re oversimplifying though in this case. You could likely make numerous successful comparisons as well if the comparison is that loose.

I should also note that Jensen broke out in the AHL at age 23 where he scored 32 goals. He’s now PPG in the KHL where he leads his team in PPG / Pace.

I’m making the comparison in terms of the Canucks’ history. Juolevi’s development has been reminiscent of Jensen’s development to me.

Jensen fell flat in the AHL during his D + 3 year. Juolevi is producing, and that’s a key difference. It’s not an exact comparison, but their 3 year paths were similar and initial concerns plagued each throughout. That’s similar. It’s an observation about that similarity.

What is pedestrian about 42 points in 57 games for a 17-year-old defenceman in his first year playing in North America?

For a supposed 2way Dman riding that 1st line? Those totals seem pedestrian. Even defensive dmen put up PPG totals on worse teams during their draft years.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I think his intensity will increase in the NHL. You give him an ultimatum and say look you either take the man and be physically engaged or you make millions fewer per year and I bet the problem magically disappears.

 

[Jyrki21]

@Melvin, what was the “keep reading” in the last thread in reference to when I mentioned Aaron Ward as sort of the end of all hope? Did you just mean there was a better example?

 

[Melvin]

@Melvin, what was the “keep reading” in the last thread in reference to when I mentioned Aaron Ward as sort of the end of all hope? Did you just mean there was a better example?

Just that I made another, more in-depth post on the topic that had a few different paths and the percentage of players who followed each one. Aaron Ward was on the "DNP DNP Partial" part of my pie chart IIRC

 

[Melvin]

What is pedestrian about 42 points in 57 games for a 17-year-old defenceman in his first year playing in North America?

"Pedestrian" might be a bit harsh but it's not particularly impressive for a high draft pick. It is Brandon Gormley, Geoffrey Schemitsch, Cameron Gaunce type numbers.

 

[Jyrki21]

Just that I made another, more in-depth post on the topic that had a few different paths and the percentage of players who followed each one. Aaron Ward was on the "DNP DNP Partial" part of my pie chart IIRC

Ah OK yeah, I did see that. He's just a lot closer to 5 x DNP than anything, I find, since both of his partials are basically nothing and then he gets yet another full DNP season after that as well. Has to be pretty remarkable for a guy who did end up playing a lot of NHL games.

 

[lawrence]

Pretty similar trajectories, with a key difference being that Juolevi is translating his offense to the AHL while Jensen fell flat in the AHL. Anybody else get the same feeling?

don't see it at all.

despite Jensen being able to see some NHL action by his D+2, Juolevi's progression has been better. Of course one was a 5th pick, the other was the 29th pick so different expectations, 5th pick should be doing better but yea, not the same feeling at all.

 

[Melvin]

Ah OK yeah, I did see that. He's just a lot closer to 5 x DNP than anything, I find, since both of his partials are basically nothing and then he gets yet another full DNP season after that as well. Has to be pretty remarkable for a guy who did end up playing a lot of NHL games.

Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, if I extend it out to D+5, he has the 3rd-fewest amount of games through D5 among D who ended up with at least 500+ GP

The bottom-5

1. Pierre Bouchard 0 (595 NHL GP)_
2. Jason Marshall 2 (526)
3. Aaron Ward 6 (839)
4. Niklas Kronwall* 47 (874)
5. Karl Dykhuis 51 (987)

Now these are your late bloomers...

*Kronwall was affected by the lockout in 04-05 so im counting 05-06 as his D+5. A few defensemen drafted in 2000 are affected by this, interestingly. Ron Hainsey and Anton Volchenkov to name two more.

 

[Jyrki21]

Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, if I extend it out to D+5, he has the 3rd-fewest amount of games through D5 among D who ended up with at least 500+ GP

The bottom-5

1. Pierre Bouchard 0 (595 NHL GP)_
2. Jason Marshall 2 (526)
3. Aaron Ward 6 (839)
4. Niklas Kronwall* 47 (874)
5. Karl Dykhuis 51 (987)

Now these are your late bloomers...

Wow, yeah, he and Dykhuis have pretty unique trajectories, that's for sure. I remember thinking about Ward in 1996 "Whatever happened to that guy?" and figured he was an out-and-out draft bust. Never would have pegged him to play over 800 games.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Coyotes signed defenceman Jakob Chychrun to a six-year contract extension worth $27.6 million.

Continue the "should have drafted over Juolevi" discussion.

 

[Pavel96]

https://www.tsn.ca/coyotes-sign-chychrun-to-six-year-extension-1.1209369

 

[timw33]

$4.6MM a season, similar contract to Nikita Zaitsev. Definitely has the potential to outperform this contract, just needs to avoid another major injury so early in his career.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Juolevi will be a staple to our defense for years to come. He’s producing a ton in the AHL in his rookie season which is incredible for a defensman. His defense has been not great but decent, and his intensity will pick up as he gains confidence. He’ll be fine. Call him up and put him with Tanev

 

[VanJack]

Juolevi has taken the baton from Jake Virtanen, as the most maligned and 'disappointing' first round pick. But patience. He's still only 20. If he's still making the same glaring mistakes when he's the same age as Derek Pouliot, then you've got cause for serious alarm.

Said it before, even in his somewhat fragile state in the defensive zone, he'd still be an upgrade over Del Zotto. I counted a least five complete giveaways in tonight's contest. He's just a turnover machine, even when he isn't pressured he just throws the puck away. And at his age, he's not about to change.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I'd say Anders Eldebrink is a fair comparison to Juolevi from my limited viewing. Great with the puck on his stick but quite skittish without it. Anders Eldebrink at eliteprospects.com Honestly Del Zotto is ten times the defenceman that Olli is at the moment. But he's still young.

 

[Intangibos]

@lawrence

-Post 969 of previous thread-

Juolevi has taken the baton from Jake Virtanen, as the most maligned and 'disappointing' first round pick. But patience. He's still only 20. If he's still making the same glaring mistakes when he's the same age as Derek Pouliot, then you've got cause for serious alarm.

Said it before, even in his somewhat fragile state in the defensive zone, he'd still be an upgrade over Del Zotto. I counted a least five complete giveaways in tonight's contest. He's just a turnover machine, even when he isn't pressured he just throws the puck away. And at his age, he's not about to change.

-Post 970 of previous thread-

And ? Soooooo you don’t want too see juolevi do well ? What are you trying to say here ?

You still never addressed what part of my post even remotely suggests I don't want Juolevi do well. I would really like to know what you're referencing so I can communicate more clearly in the future, thanks.

 

[lawrence]

@lawrence





You still never addressed what part of my post even remotely suggests I don't want Juolevi do well. I would really like to know what you're referencing so I can communicate more clearly in the future, thanks.

? I was asking you a question and you answered it. no need playing cop. I did also clearly say "What are you trying to say here ?"