Oilers win 4-1

[Soundwave]

After several of his performances in OKC and here this year I'm questioning his attitude. Eberle isn't matching production this year because he's not always paying the price. Theres been a lot of games this year where he's done very little.

I admire the tenacity of Hall, Yak, Gagner, and RNH(in allzone play)

In contrast Eberle picks his spots, is only remotely interested in one zone play, and as long as thats what he's content with its a problem.

He's also likely the guy who's going to lead this team in scoring when they do get into the playoffs and do things like score big OT goals. I can see that easily.

He is more of a shifty type of player, but that's always been his game.

Its part of the process.

Guys like Glen Anderson and even Jari Kurri didn't play every game balls out, but boy were you glad to have them when you needed that little extra juice in a playoff round (ahem, Flyers in '87). All four of our kids are going to be necessary for this team to go anywhere IMO, because we don't have one singular dominant player (and no, Taylor Hall is not it).

 

[Replacement*]

Pretty much. I remember a year ago when people were saying Hall is the most expendable of our core group and RNH is more valuable than Malkin.

It's definitely a "what have you done for me lately?" fan base (at least parts of it, for sure).

This year and last year and any year I was saying Gagner will have a better career and is a more valuable player.

Hall? Yak? No question these are better players.

Eberle milked some surprise close in shots and a lot of goalies are looking out for that and covering topshelf better. With Eberle its a case of what else does he have? What else does he offer?

Again this is a player that isn't likely getting better. Of any of the core he reminds me of a hemsky who is completely content to playing only one facet of the game.

 

[Soundwave]

This year and last year and any year I was saying Gagner will have a better career and is a more valuable player.

Hall? Yak? No question these are better players.

Eberle milked some surprise close in shots and a lot of goalies are looking out for that and covering topshelf better. With Eberle its a case of what else does he have? What else does he offer?

Again this is a player that isn't likely getting better. Of any of the core he reminds me of a hemsky who is completely content to playing only one facet of the game.

On no planet was Gagner better than Eberle the previous two seasons.

Even this year, with just about everything going in Gagner's favor and Eberle suffering from his first real NHL scoring drought, Eberle is a whopping 1 goal behind Gagner.

Eberle is probably still long term the best pure goal scorer this team has. Better hands than Hall, better offensive I.Q. than Yakupov. Last time I checked you have to score goals to win hockey games.

 

[Replacement*]

He's also likely the guy who's going to lead this team in scoring when they do get into the playoffs and do things like score big OT goals. I can see that easily.

He is more of a shifty type of player, but that's always been his game.

Its part of the process.

Guys like Glen Anderson and even Jari Kurri didn't play every game balls out, but boy were you glad to have them when you needed that little extra juice in a playoff round (ahem, Flyers in '87). All four of our kids are going to be necessary for this team to go anywhere IMO, because we don't have one singular dominant player (and no, Taylor Hall is not it).

With all due respect comparing Eberle to Glenn Anderson, multiple Stanley cup winner, who defined clutch, big game, big money, player is beyond the pale. Anderson is possibly the best example ever of a money playoff performer.

Andersons tenacity and perseverence around the net and fighting through checks is something that Eberle hasn't even tapped into. Refusing to be denied is something that molded Andersons game from earliest moments and he hit the ground running and made the Oilers a better team. Anderson was always a handle to contain and was always there when the club needed him.

 

[Distinct]

On no planet was Gagner better than Eberle the previous two seasons.

Even this year, with just about everything going in Gagner's favor and Eberle suffering from his first real NHL scoring drought, Eberle is a whopping 1 goal behind Gagner.

Eberle is probably still long term the best pure goal scorer this team has. Better hands than Hall, better offensive I.Q. than Yakupov.

I'd argue that Yak has a higher offensive IQ. I think that next year it will be quite clear

 

[Replacement*]

On no planet was Gagner better than Eberle the previous two seasons.

Even this year, with just about everything going in Gagner's favor and Eberle suffering from his first real NHL scoring drought, Eberle is a whopping 1 goal behind Gagner.

Eberle is probably still long term the best pure goal scorer this team has. Better hands than Hall, better offensive I.Q. than Yakupov. Last time I checked you have to score goals to win hockey games.

Maybe you missed where Gagner is assigned much more responsibility on the club on his shifts for instance being a Center, playing pk, covering back for pinching D on a regular basis. If you can spot Eberle EVER doing that you should youtube it.

Eberle cheats for offense all day any day and could care less about getting back on the check.

Gagners always been a better player and prospect and why he hit the top league in the world running years before Eberle did.

 

[timekeep]

Who replaces Eberle on RW?
This team isn't in a position to fill a massive hole by creating a massive hole. Trading Eberle weakens the top 6 considerably. This is a player who has succeeded at a very high level at every level and has that special ability to show up in the big moments, that's an inherent special ability that he has plus he loves playing here so no, i'm not thinking emotionally, i'm thinking rationally.

I'm frustrated by the trade Eberle talk because this fanbase is so incredibly reactionary to any slump by young players. There's even some trade RNH talk starting up, it's beyond ridiculous.
Everybody seems to think that Eberle has maxed out already (some Gagner fans think that too which i find incredibly hypocritical).
Dealing him simply because he's slumping and has some value is ridiculous.
He's a part of the core that is still in its infancy stage, they are all growing together and are just starting to develop on and off ice chemistry with each other, that's very valuable for a young team.

I also don't get how the new shiny toy Yakupov makes Eberle expendable. That's like saying that RNH made Gagner expendable after his rookie season. Yakupov hasn't proven nearly enough to have all this pressure placed on him so early in his career.

My point is that you build around players like Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov and Schultz, not deal them.
Sure, if a team offers a legit #1D for Eberle who is signed long term then you probably have to make that deal but that's not realistic so any deal of Eberle is a losing deal.

A top 6 of The big 4, a 2 way center and a big, physical winger is plenty good enough to compete for Cups. If you take Eberle out of that equation, i'm not so sure. He's not easily replacable.

Sorry to disagree, but Yaks would take Eberle's place. I get frustrated that you think some of us are jumping on the Trade Eberle train because he is slumping. I would prefer he scores like last night then his value is higher. Succeeding at every level but not winning at every level.

Your reasons are more rational than some of the others that are emotional about Eberle but still not logical to keep him if we can strengthen another position that is needed more. I agree it does weaken the RW position but it would strengthen another need that is much weaker than RW. This organization hasn't done a very good of drafting or developing their later draft picks.

 

[Soundwave]

With all due respect comparing Eberle to Glenn Anderson, multiple Stanley cup winner, who defined clutch, big game, big money, player is beyond the pale. Anderson is possibly the best example ever of a money playoff performer.

Andersons tenacity and perseverence around the net and fighting through checks is something that Eberle hasn't even tapped into. Refusing to be denied is something that molded Andersons game from earliest moments and he hit the ground running and made the Oilers a better team. Anderson was always a handle to contain and was always there when the club needed him.

It's also well known Anderson would "doze off" for stretches in the regular season in particular.

My basic point is this though -- the Oilers core isn't actually as good as I think a lot of people think it is.

We NEED all four of these kids. None of them is as expendable as people think.

We don't (despite everyone wanting to crown Taylor Hall) have a singular dominant player. We didn't get a Crosby out of our "tank days", we have to do it by committee.

That's why I don't see trading any of the 4 kids upfront as making any rational sense. Unless you are getting another superstar forward back, it would damage our top six for years.

I'm not for trading Eberle or Yakupov or Hall or RNH. I say no, no, no, (and no) again. I think doing so is actually a horrific misread of what we actually have here and drinking the kool aid of the press. We are not as talented as a lot of people think, if we start subtracting now for "depth", we are going to be mired as a team with a roof of being middle of the pack at best.

 

[OneMoreAstronaut]

Eberle won't be traded.

Despite having an "awful" season, he is a whopping ONE GOAL removed from leading this team in goals ... again.

He is Taylor Hall's best friend and half the fanbase has his jersey.

Haha I was literally about to post "He better not be traded, I bought his damn jersey last year".

 

[CupofOil]

Sorry to disagree, but Yaks would take Eberle's place. I get frustrated that you think some of us are jumping on the Trade Eberle train because he is slumping. I would prefer he scores like last night then his value is higher. Succeeding at every level but not winning at every level.

Your reasons are more rational than some of the others that are emotional about Eberle but still not logical to keep him if we can strengthen another position that is needed more. I agree it does weaken the RW position but it would strengthen another need that is much weaker than RW. This organization hasn't done a very good of drafting or developing their later draft picks.

Yakupov has never done anything to indicate that he could take Eberle's spot. Sure, he's fun to watch and has a lot of upside but the idea that he could instantly replace what Eberle brings is silly.
If Yakupov struggles next season, HFOil will make him next in line to be traded to fill another need, just watch.

Also, Yakupov has never won at any level except that one WJC in which Kuznetsov and the goaltending was the straw that stirred the drink. For the most part, Yakupov has shrunk in the big moments outside of some fortuitous bounces early in the season.
I don't mean to rag on Yakupov too much, i think he has tons of upside and i don't want him to dealt to fill another need but i despise this idea that he could seamlessly replace Eberle.

 

[Faelko]

Sorry to disagree, but Yaks would take Eberle's place. I get frustrated that you think some of us are jumping on the Trade Eberle train because he is slumping. I would prefer he scores like last night then his value is higher. Succeeding at every level but not winning at every level.

Your reasons are more rational than some of the others that are emotional about Eberle but still not logical to keep him if we can strengthen another position that is needed more. I agree it does weaken the RW position but it would strengthen another need that is much weaker than RW. This organization hasn't done a very good of drafting or developing their later draft picks.

A logical assumption would have Yak as your #1 RW and Eberle your #2... The question now is who replaces Eberle as the #2 if you move him.

We aren't getting a big true #1 d-man for Eberle. No point to move him.

 

[GMofOilers]

Totally disagree Replacement, your getting crazy here, is it because of old age?

Eberle was our best player last year.

16 pts in 21 games this year, before breaking a finger, I think he deserves a break

15 in 22 after, but I'm thinking this would be higher if not for a broken finger.

Krueger has been a disaster for the kids. I understand it takes most coaches at least a half year before getting the troops on board fully for a impact, so lets see what happens next year.

Ill go on a limb and say Eberle ill get 85 points next year. If we wanna trade a player like that, well we will have a hard time replacing it.

 

[Replacement*]

Yakupov has never done anything to indicate that he could take Eberle's spot. Sure, he's fun to watch and has a lot of upside but the idea that he could instantly replace what Eberle brings is silly.
If Yakupov struggles next season, he'll be the next in line to be traded to fill another need, just watch.

Also, Yakupov has never won at any level except that one WJC in which Kuznetsov and the goaltending was the straw that stirred the drink. For the most part, Yakupov has shrunk in the big moments outside of some fortuitous bounces early in the season.
I don't mean to rag on Yakupov too much, i think he has tons of upside and i don't want him to dealt to fill another need but i despise this idea that he could seamlessly replace Eberle.

Yakupov is infinitely harder to play against then Eberle, is a force to contend with already, is a fierce competitor, throws hits, bounces people, and is undoubtedly going to be a power forward with an immense and varied set of skills. Eberle is often a peripheral player, who is years older than Yakupov.

I have no idea how you think Eberle is a more valuable player to team than Yak. Theres simply nothing to suggest that. I will suggest that you're far off the mark. Yak is a better player right now, in his rookie season, than Eberle will be.

 

[Replacement*]

Totally disagree Replacement, your getting crazy here, is it because of old age?

.

More likely grumpiness. Another **** season.

At some point this team will be better. I do get annoyed with how many players on this club have off years. I think in sum thats a large part of the problem.

 

[Soundwave]

Yakupov is infinitely harder to play against then Eberle, is a force to contend with already, is a fierce competitor, throws hits, bounces people, and is undoubtedly going to be a power forward with an immense and varied set of skills. Eberle is often a peripheral player, who is years older than Yakupov.

That's all fine and dandy, but none of the 4 kids as I see it are dominant individual forces.

None of them is as good as Crosby or even Tavares.

Which isn't to say we should boo-hoo and feel sorry for ourselves, the fact is every team is built a little differently and for us, we have good offensive talent, it's just spread out between 4 players instead of say, 2.

We have to do it by committee, we need all four of them. None of them is expendable. We must have two high end offensive players on both of our top lines going forward IMO. This franchise has to be built on that bed rock because this is the deck of cards we were dealt.

And yes, all four of them are a little different. Which is fine. Hall and Yakupov have more fire, RNH and Eberle have more brains and better hands. I also really don't know how much of a "real" power forward Yakupov can be at 5'11.

 

[CupofOil]

Yakupov is infinitely harder to play against then Eberle, is a force to contend with already, is a fierce competitor, throws hits, bounces people, and is undoubtedly going to be a power forward with an immense and varied set of skills. Eberle is often a peripheral player, who is years older than Yakupov.

He's a different type of player. He has that Hall go get it mentality while Eberle has that cerberal RNH type of quality, a player who picks his spots and is a silent assassin using his smarts more than braun.

They are actually the perfect change of pace and when they are matured enough, will give the opposition multiple dimensions to contend with. You trade Eberle and the top 6 becomes more predictable. Yakupov is simply not ready to take on Eberle's role and the Oilers are not ready to trade an offensive force like Eberle and expect to replace him. He won't net a legit #1D or #1C so what's the point in dealing him?

 

[Spawn]

Maybe you missed where Gagner is assigned much more responsibility on the club on his shifts for instance being a Center, playing pk, covering back for pinching D on a regular basis. If you can spot Eberle EVER doing that you should youtube it.

Eberle cheats for offense all day any day and could care less about getting back on the check.

Gagners always been a better player and prospect and why he hit the top league in the world running years before Eberle did.

I've been a very big Gagner supporter, I have been all along and that hasn't changed. That being said. With Gagner I see a guy who looks like he is trying really hard a lot of the time but still manages to be in the wrong spot consistently defensively. Is he trying to get better? Sure. But after 5 years in the NHL he is not substantially better defensively now he was 3 years ago.

You can say Eberle is lazy and doesn't care about getting back, but I don't see that very often. He has less defensive responsibility, but that is because he is a winger. I see Gagner floundering away missing a back check resulting in a goal against far more frequently than Eberle.

Eberle has never been anything but a class act on and off the ice. He makes a comment about saying it sucks when he isn't playing with Nuge and Hall and you take it to mean he is some entitled brat. You are way off base I think.

 

[Replacement*]

He's a different type of player. He has that Hall go get it mentality while Eberle has that cerberal RNH type of quality, a player who picks his spots and is a silent assassin using his smarts more than braun.

They are actually the perfect change of pace and when they are matured enough, will give the opposition multiple dimensions to contend with. You trade Eberle and the top 6 becomes more predictable. Yakupov is simply not ready to take on Eberle's role and the Oilers are not ready to trade an offensive force like Eberle and expect to replace him. He won't net a legit #1D or #1C so what's the point in dealing him?

In truth I haven't once mentioned trading Eberle. I'm just disappointed in how little interest Eberle shows in helping the team win against solid performances. What I've noted all year is Eberle quickly getting frustrated and ineffective against good opposition efforts. I'm concerned with how easily he allows himself to be ineffectual and shutdown.

I want him on the team, but my preference would be that he wants to play an allround game, but he doesn't.

 

[Soundwave]

In truth I haven't once mentioned trading Eberle. I'm just disappointed in how little interest Eberle shows in helping the team win against solid performances. What I've noted all year is Eberle quickly getting frustrated and ineffective against good opposition efforts. I'm concerned with how easily he allows himself to be ineffectual and shutdown.

I want him on the team, but my preference would be that he wants to play an allround game, but he doesn't.

All four of the kids will have their ups and downs, Eberle's had the most ups since he got here, now he's tasting a little bit of adversity. It's fine and quite frankly it has to happen.

Not everyone is Crosby where development is a singular upwards meteoric rise. There are Iginlas and Sedins and Girouxs where you are going to have ups and downs.

For all the bluster that Hall shows up all the time, where was his offense during after the 8-2 Calgary game? So it's not like he can just will himself to score either, he was shut down just like RNH and Eberle while we were battling for our playoff lives.

 

[Replacement*]

I've been a very big Gagner supporter, I have been all along and that hasn't changed. That being said. With Gagner I see a guy who looks like he is trying really hard a lot of the time but still manages to be in the wrong spot consistently defensively. Is he trying to get better? Sure. But after 5 years in the NHL he is not substantially better defensively now he was 3 years ago.

You can say Eberle is lazy and doesn't care about getting back, but I don't see that very often. He has less defensive responsibility, but that is because he is a winger. I see Gagner floundering away missing a back check resulting in a goal against far more frequently than Eberle.

Eberle has never been anything but a class act on and off the ice. He makes a comment about saying it sucks when he isn't playing with Nuge and Hall and you take it to mean he is some entitled brat. You are way off base I think.

Its a poor comment to make in a teamsport and there was no retraction.

You don't see Eberle missing backchecks in own end because he has virtually no presence in own end. He's as far away from the play as he can be. Seeing Eberle on a pk would hilite this. Of course you never will see it.

He's a one dimensional player only interested in offense and not interested in getting better at allzone responsibility.

Really the problems with eberle is classic, young player gets too much of a result early in career and it screws with his work ethic. He thinks he's already arrived.

 

[McOilers97]

Why are people assuming that if we trade Eberle then it would open up a hole at RW? Are they not considering that maybe we would be trading him for a bigger RW?

If a team with a big ~50-60 point second line fwd needs some skill then how is that a bad deal for us? We need some skilled-size; the mix of this team's top 6 is WRONG.

The D can be addressed more easily in free agency, but a skilled big forward certainly would be tough to aquire any other way than trade.

In (hopefully) a year and within 2 yrs, when our 2013 pick (which I will assume is either Barkov or Monahan) is ready for 2nd line center duty the top 6 could look like this.

Hall- Nugent-Hopkins- Yakupov
Gagner- Barkov/Monahan- *Power fwd aquired for Eberle

That looks pretty damn good to me.

Until then, we can leave Gagner as the 2C and still have Paajarvi around to play 2/3 line duty.

 

[CupofOil]

In truth I haven't once mentioned trading Eberle. I'm just disappointed in how little interest Eberle shows in helping the team win against solid performances. What I've noted all year is Eberle quickly getting frustrated and ineffective against good opposition efforts. I'm concerned with how easily he allows himself to be ineffectual and shutdown.

I want him on the team, but my preference would be that he wants to play an allround game, but he doesn't.

Fair enough and i have been disappointed in him as well this season but it's unfair to say things like, he's not willing to improve and he has a bad attitude because he preferred to play with RNH and Hall.

He is simply a very young, developing player struggling with tougher matchups and more responsibility just like RNH. As a Gagner fan, you should understand this.
Also, keep in mind that he was playing with a broken finger, had some family issues off the ice to contend with and the quirky, shortened season.

This doesn't mean that he can't develop an all around game or that he has a bad attitude. It's simply a case of a great young player and by all accounts, a great young man hitting a speed bump in his development.

 

[Soundwave]

Why are people assuming that if we trade Eberle then it would open up a hole at RW? Are they not considering that maybe we would be trading him for a bigger RW?

If a team with a big ~50-60 point second line fwd needs some skill then how is that a bad deal for us? We need some skilled-size; the mix of this team's top 6 is WRONG.

The D can be addressed more easily in free agency, but a skilled big forward certainly would be tough to aquire any other way than trade.

In (hopefully) a year and within 2 yrs, when our 2013 pick (which I will assume is either Barkov or Monahan) is ready for 2nd line center duty the top 6 could look like this.

Hall- Nugent-Hopkins- Yakupov
Gagner- Barkov/Monahan- *Power fwd aquired for Eberle

That looks pretty damn good to me.

Until then, we can leave Gagner as the 2C and still have Paajarvi around to play 2/3 line duty.

What power forward do you have in mind? How many of them even exist? Lucic and uh ... who else? How's Kassian doing in Vancouver?

Again I don't see it as a realistic possibility because I don't view Hall/Yakupov/RNH as being *that* good on their own either. There's some talent there sure, but they're not Tavares/Stamkos/Crosby/Ovy or probably even Kovalchuk level good.

RNH is probably going to take a while to develop because of his weight, and that's just the reality of the situation.

IMO you can't gift away talent for "need" unless you have a Crosby or even Tavares level player. We don't have that luxury. The notion that we have "talent to spare" is very, very wrong IMO. We don't.

Why do we even need basically a third power forward in this scenario anyway? Monahan's game is that of a power forward. Hall also plays a power forward type game. So we need a third PF on top of that in the long run? How many teams are even built that way? This is just reasoning borne out of impatience.

 

[McOilers97]

What power forward do you have in mind? How many of them even exist? Lucic and uh ... who else? How's Kassian doing in Vancouver?

Again I don't see it as a realistic possibility because I don't view Hall/Yakupov/RNH as being *that* good on their own either. There's some talent there sure, but they're not Tavares/Stamkos/Crosby/Ovy or probably even Kovalchuk level good.

RNH is probably going to take a while to develop because of his weight, and that's just the reality of the situation.

IMO you can't gift away talent for "need" unless you have a Crosby or even Tavares level player. We don't.

Why do we even need basically a third power forward in this scenario anyway? Monahan's game is that of a power forward. Hall also plays a power forward type game. So we need a third PF on top of that in the long run? This is just reasoning borne out of impatience.

From what I've heard, Boston's cap crunch is going to force them into doing something, and possibly both Horton and Lucic will be available. Although if we are to make a trade with them for one of those players, they can't afford to take salary in return, so we may be able to get away with giving them Paajarvi and prospects/picks and keep Eberle, which would be even better.

And I like Tavares as much as anyone else, but why do you talk about Tavares as though he's miles better than Hall? I honestly don't think the gap between them is that big.

 

[Soundwave]

From what I've heard, Boston's cap crunch is going to force them into doing something, and possibly both Horton and Lucic will be available. Although if we are to make a trade with them for one of those players, they can't afford to take salary in return, so we may be able to get away with giving them Paajarvi and prospects/picks and keep Eberle, which would be even better.

Not interested. Lucic is on the verge of being a healthy scratch and is far more inconsistent than Eberle.

We don't have a 50 goal scorer in our top six to just throw away one of our best scoring forwards.

Horton is old and his head is scrambled eggs.

I'd rather be patient with what we got now. If you pick Monahan in the draft, then that group is fine size wise long term. Put 10 pounds of muscle on all of them and add in higher hockey I.Q. as they invevitably learn the ins and outs of the league and there's nothing wrong with this group at all

MPS RNH Eberle
Hall Monahan Yakupov