Oilers win 4-1

Koto

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May 3, 2011
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It's an issue if you piss off and alienate your other supposed "franchise player" I think.

They might as well be brothers at this point.

What happens if such a deal backfires (which it very, very easily could?). Then you have Hall who's been here for 4 years, pissed off at the franchise already on top of dealing with Eberle being traded. How long until he asks to be dealt?

Whether people want to admit it or not there are huge logistical problems to dealing Eberle on top of it being something that very, very likely would come back to haunt us for many years.


I too am worried about this...but from another cause...perpetual losing, is that not something we should be worried about too?


Every time someone brings up the possibility of Hall demanding a trade if we suck next year too everyone goes "lol, no way, 7 year contract blah blah blah"

Every time someone brings up trading Eberle "you want to piss hall off and make him demand a trade?"


This is totally illogical, we should be much more concerned with winning than player friendships.

I would need to be offered Lucic AND Hamilton.

Or Tavares.

Or Stamkos.

The asking price would be very ... verrrrry high.

Not dealing him based on some "needs" like third line freaking center and an ok d-man, no way in hell. If you can't get those types of pieces from Gagner, Hemsky, Paajarvi, Petry, EDM 1st 2013, then you're simply a bad GM.

It's just classic Oiler fan mentality, if you're not playing well you can be traded, but that's the epitome of making a decision based on emotion rather than logic. If he has 10 hot games again I would bet $1000 you would back off even the suggestion of a trade and never mention it again quietly.

Nor would i, that is just ridiculous, but if you can get an equivalent talent for him, specifically on D, you have to take it, we need to address the need. After a year or two of "you have to take BPA, trade for need" how do people not see this being the appropriate action.

And don't try to tell me equivalent for Eberle is a #1D, theres no way he returns a #1, but a #2D is realistic and would help our team a ton.

Who replaces Eberle on RW?
This team isn't in a position to fill a massive hole by creating a massive hole. Trading Eberle weakens the top 6 considerably. This is a player who has succeeded at a very high level at every level and has that special ability to show up in the big moments, that's an inherent special ability that he has plus he loves playing here so no, i'm not thinking emotionally, i'm thinking rationally.

I'm frustrated by the trade Eberle talk because this fanbase is so incredibly reactionary to any slump by young players. There's even some trade RNH talk starting up, it's beyond ridiculous.
Everybody seems to think that Eberle has maxed out already (some Gagner fans think that too which i find incredibly hypocritical).
Dealing him simply because he's slumping and has some value is ridiculous.
He's a part of the core that is still in its infancy stage, they are all growing together and are just starting to develop on and off ice chemistry with each other, that's very valuable for a young team.

I also don't get how the new shiny toy Yakupov makes Eberle expendable. That's like saying that RNH made Gagner expendable after his rookie season. Yakupov hasn't proven nearly enough to have all this pressure placed on him so early in his career.

My point is that you build around players like Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov and Schultz, not deal them.
Sure, if a team offers a legit #1D for Eberle who is signed long term then you probably have to make that deal but that's not realistic so any deal of Eberle is a losing deal.

A top 6 of The big 4, a 2 way center and a big, physical winger is plenty good enough to compete for Cups. If you take Eberle out of that equation, i'm not so sure. He's not easily replacable.


??????????????????????? RW is by far our deepest position, how many people want to trade Gagner only to have a rookie or horcoff take his spot, RW is the one position we can deal from and NOT create a massive hole. We still would possess 2 top-6 RW.

Trading Eberle does weaken the top-6, but considerably? Sure we lose talent, but we have excess talent, and we lack size, consistency, and two-way play. Why are these appropriate motives for moving Gagner/Hemsky but not Eberle? Yeah Eberle is the best of them, but guess what he would also return A LOT more than those two. What i think is really the reason is we all love him so much hes clutch, he was an oiler fan, hes a WJC hero, and hes BFF with hall, i don't think any of these are great reasons for not looking to upgrade your roster.

A top-6 you describe with one of Gagner/Hemsky kept over eberle in conjunction with 2 new players would be very close overall as a group to being as good, but guess what, if we can add a top-pairing defenseman, the team is a lot better.
 

McOilers97

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Jan 10, 2012
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Not interested. Lucic is on the verge of being a healthy scratch and is far more inconsistent than Eberle.

We don't have a 50 goal scorer in our top six to just throw away one of our best scoring forwards.

Horton is old and his head is scrambled eggs.

I'd rather be patient with what we got now. If you pick Monahan in the draft, then that group is fine size wise long term. Put 10 pounds of muscle on all of them and add in higher hockey I.Q. as they invevitably learn the ins and outs of the league and there's nothing wrong with this group at all

MPS RNH Eberle
Hall Monahan Yakupov

That's fair, and you might be right, but at some point the word "long-term" has to stop being used here. Not because I want to throw the future of this team away, but because we really can't afford to get steam-rolled again next year.

I'll flip your argument around about us not having a Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos on this team:

Since we don't have one of those players, isn't it important that we put together a better mix of top 6 forwards like Chicago, Boston and LA did with their recent Stanley Cup teams? Skill is important, but a bad mix between skill and grit and toughness doesn't win you anything unless you have Crosby and Malkin.
 

McOilers97

Registered User
Jan 10, 2012
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I'm also sick of this whole "If you trade Eberle, it will piss Hall off and he'll want to leave!" argument.

That is ********.

Guaranteed: Taylor Hall wants to win a Stanley Cup more than he wants to play with Jordan Eberle. The reason he would be asking for a trade down the road would be that management has done a ****** job addressing the roster holes, and this team is still pissing in the wind, talking about "in a few years".
 

McTedi

Registered User
Jul 16, 2008
12,618
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Edmonton
Margo was in top form after having a serious cold earlier in the tour that was giving her some problems singing. But last night was spot on, she hit all the notes and then some. Band gave a very spirited musical performance and really got into material.

First set was from the Nomad series, second set was the older more familiar catalog. But not to get the wrong idea, they're newer stuff is quite good, just not in vogue, but very good. You'll find yourself buying the newer stuff which is really a large point in touring today. These guys deserve to get more present recognition. Consummate musicians.
Awesome, should be a great show.
 

Oilfan2

13.5%
Aug 12, 2005
4,985
140
Not interested. Lucic is on the verge of being a healthy scratch and is far more inconsistent than Eberle.

We don't have a 50 goal scorer in our top six to just throw away one of our best scoring forwards.

Horton is old and his head is scrambled eggs.

I'd rather be patient with what we got now. If you pick Monahan in the draft, then that group is fine size wise long term. Put 10 pounds of muscle on all of them and add in higher hockey I.Q. as they invevitably learn the ins and outs of the league and there's nothing wrong with this group at all

MPS RNH Eberle
Hall Monahan Yakupov

Still don't like that top 6..There isn't anyone there that's going to scare the D on the other teams. We all know how the Oiler's play (or don't play) against bigger, stronger teams with tough D. They fade away.
I agree when they get a little bigger and stronger they'll be a better team but none of them will be that tough, unable to be handled player that a Lucic type would be. I think we can still have Lucic and keep Eberle. It wouldn't make sense not to keep Ebs and make something work with the rest of the assets.
PRV isn't a top 6 and certainly not top line..At least not for the next year or 2..

I like the idea of having Monahan (he's still no bigger or stronger than the rest) but we may be able to add a Lucic with a trade or, barring that, sign Horton and hope his head is right. Wouldn't cost anything but money..

Lucic-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Monahan-Yakupov

Looks better to me...
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
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That's fair, and you might be right, but at some point the word "long-term" has to stop being used here. Not because I want to throw the future of this team away, but because we really can't afford to get steam-rolled again next year.

I'll flip your argument around about us not having a Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos on this team:

Since we don't have one of those players, isn't it important that we put together a better mix of top 6 forwards like Chicago, Boston and LA did with their recent Stanley Cup teams? Skill is important, but a bad mix between skill and grit and toughness doesn't win you anything unless you have Crosby and Malkin.

I wouldn't put Chicago in that group, but even if you did, they would've been really stupid to trade Patrick Kane and he's certainly had his ups and downs.

Boston had the luxury of signing Zdeno Chara, we don't attract prime UFAs like that.

LA did not give up their core pieces to acquire depth either.

No team has been built the way you are suggesting the Oilers should be built (by trading away their best young player for 2/3 last years).

If you want to trade say a Paajarvi + EDM 1st for a Lucic, fine, but Eberle, that would be like the Kings trading Kopitar to get Richards. They don't win the Cup because you're just creating one hole to get another one. You have to compound your talent level if you don't have a Crosby. Making trades where you are getting less talented but filling "needs" is not a blue print that I've seen work for any contender. Mike Richards is more talented than Wayne Simmonds. Jeff Carter is a talent upgrade from Jack Johnson.

If you can get a Tyler Seguin for Jordan Eberle, ok, maybe you consider *that*, but even that gap IMO is not that big.
 
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McOilers97

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Jan 10, 2012
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I wouldn't put Chicago in that group, but even if you did, they would've been really stupid to trade Patrick Kane and he's certainly had his ups and downs.

Boston had the luxury of signing Zdeno Chara, we don't attract prime UFAs like that.

LA did not give up their core pieces to acquire depth either.

No team has been built the way you are suggesting the Oilers should be built (by trading away their best young player for 2/3 last years).

Well if you're talking about the Oilers best young player; newsflash- it's Hall, not Eberle, even last year. Those 76 points are extremely misleading and it's not as if he has much more production in him than that.

Sorry to say it, but very very soon, it won't even be up for debate that Eberle is more valuable than Hall, Yakupov, or RNH.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Well if you're talking about the Oilers best young player; newsflash- it's Hall, not Eberle, even last year. Those 76 points are extremely misleading and it's not as if he has much more production in him than that.

Sorry to say it, but very very soon, it won't even be up for debate that Eberle is more valuable than Hall, Yakupov, or RNH.

None of the four are that much better than each other. There's no Crosby or Malkin in that group. Not even Tavares or Ovechkin. That's actually the newsflash.

The Oilers need all of them, they will have to carry the team at certain times if this organization is ever going to have a successful season + multiple playoff round wins.

A 1-line offense with no singular dominant player isn't scaring anyone. You need at least two lines that are pretty damn good upfront.

Of the four of them I think Nugent Hopkins will actually be the best in the long term, but he's been the worst this year. Player development. Sometimes that's how it goes.

Gagner, EDM 1st, Paajarvi, Petry, Hemsky, and multiple other pieces should be available to "fill needs", but really how about the GM actually does his job and find a diamond in the rough once in a while? Even freaking Calgary, they got Giordano and Brodie for what exactly? They stole Glencross for nothing. Building a franchise by trading stars for filler/secondary pieces is a horrible way to build a team.
 
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McOilers97

Registered User
Jan 10, 2012
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None of the four are that much better than each other. There's no Crosby or Malkin in that group. Not even Tavares or Ovechkin. That's actually the newsflash.

The Oilers need all of them, they will have to carry the team at certain times if this organization is ever going to have a successful season + multiple playoff round wins.

A 1-line offense with no singular dominant player isn't scaring anyone. You need at least two lines that are pretty damn good upfront.

So what do you propose the Oilers do then? Something has to change up there.

Also; where do get off saying that Tavares is SOOOOOO much better than any of our recent 1st overall picks? I really really like John Tavares, but you make it sound like he's infinitely better than any of Hall, Yakupov and RNH.
I know points aren't everything, but Hall has produced at his level every year since coming into the league, and despite Tavares' better all-around game, Hall's intangibles are probably better.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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So what do you propose the Oilers do then? Something has to change up there.

Also; where do get off saying that Tavares is SOOOOOO much better than any of our recent 1st overall picks? I really really like John Tavares, but you make it sound like he's infinitely better than any of Hall, Yakupov and RNH.
I know points aren't everything, but Hall has produced at his level every year since coming into the league, and despite Tavares' better all-around game, Hall's intangibles are probably better.

If Hall and Yak and RNH are as good as Tavares, we'd be in the playoffs.

It's not the Islanders are some great, stacked roster with no holes, they're the same roster more or less as last year.

Which might actually point to the value of patience. The main thing the Islanders have over us is an extra year of development.

Hall produces, but lets be honest, if we're going to be brutal in our player assessment, he's prone to goal scoring droughts, he shouldn't be given a free pass for not scoring in the 6 games where our playoffs were on the line if Ebs and RNH take all the heat.

"Trying hard" doesn't translate to production and a lot of times his assists are gravy points. He only has one more goal than Eberle this year despite all the toe drags and driving head first into the net. Tavares honestly is playing on a less talented team, he just makes the players around him that much better.

I love the guy and am glad he's improving, but he can't put this team on his shoulders consistently and drive them to victory. It will take all four of them maturing for the Oilers to become a formidable team that has two dangerous lines that causes real problems for other teams.
 
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Senor Catface

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Jul 25, 2006
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If Hall and Yak and RNH are as good as Tavares, we'd be in the playoffs.

It's not the Islanders are some great, stacked roster with no holes, they're the same roster more or less as last year.

Which might actually point to the value of patience. The main thing the Islanders have over us is an extra year of development.

Hall produces, but lets be honest, if we're going to be brutal in our player assessment, he's prone to goal scoring droughts, he shouldn't be given a free pass for not scoring in the 6 games where our playoffs were on the line if Ebs and RNH take all the heat.

"Trying hard" doesn't translate to production and a lot of times his assists are gravy points. He only has one more goal than Eberle this year despite all the toe drags and driving head first into the net. Tavares honestly is playing on a less talented team, he just makes the players around him that much better.

Tavares last season had a goalless span of 11 games and another one of 13 games.

If Tavares is such a good player that would put us in the playoffs, what about last year with the Islanders?
 

McOilers97

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Jan 10, 2012
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If Hall and Yak and RNH are as good as Tavares, we'd be in the playoffs.

It's not the Islanders are some great, stacked roster with no holes, they're the same roster more or less as last year.

Which might actually point to the value of patience. The main thing the Islanders have over us is an extra year of development.

Hall produces, but lets be honest, if we're going to be brutal in our player assessment, he's prone to goal scoring droughts, he shouldn't be given a free pass for not scoring in the 6 games where our playoffs were on the line if Ebs and RNH take all the heat.

"Trying hard" doesn't translate to production and a lot of times his assists are gravy points.

I love the guy and am glad he's improving, but he can't put this team on his shoulders consistently and drive them to victory.

I'll agree with a lot of that, but do you think Tavares could put this Oilers team in the playoffs? It might be beside the point, but to say that Hall can't carry the Oilers but Tavares could would be out of line; this just isn't a playoff team.

Oilers D needs a few big changes, bottom 6 needs some changes, top 6 IMO needs one new player.

Despite the value of patience in a rebuild, isn't it also true that a rebuilding team
never wins when all their top-end talent consists only of their own draft picks? Something drastic still has to be done, because a top 6 all aged 23 and younger, with the biggest of them at 6'1, 195lbs is going to get steamrolled.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Still don't like that top 6..There isn't anyone there that's going to scare the D on the other teams. We all know how the Oiler's play (or don't play) against bigger, stronger teams with tough D. They fade away.
I agree when they get a little bigger and stronger they'll be a better team but none of them will be that tough, unable to be handled player that a Lucic type would be. I think we can still have Lucic and keep Eberle. It wouldn't make sense not to keep Ebs and make something work with the rest of the assets.
PRV isn't a top 6 and certainly not top line..At least not for the next year or 2..

I like the idea of having Monahan (he's still no bigger or stronger than the rest) but we may be able to add a Lucic with a trade or, barring that, sign Horton and hope his head is right. Wouldn't cost anything but money..

Lucic-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Monahan-Yakupov

Looks better to me...

Well I would like this top six

Hall Crosby Eberle
Ovechkin RNH Yakupov

lol, you can't have everything. A top six of Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yak/Monahan/MPS would be very, very formidable and a fairly damn complete top six.

You have goal scorers, 2 way players, speed, skill, playmaking, dangling, guts/gumption, some decent size even once RNH and MPS bulk up a bit ... I mean there's only so much realistically you can expect especially in a cap era.

There is no team that is balanced just perfectly. Boston could use more high end skill and goal scoring. Their D depth is questionable too. Pittsburgh's D can be shaky as well and their goaltending can be suspect. It's really only this year that they've adequately found good winger talent for Sid/Geno to team with as well. Vancouver lacks a high-end no.1 d-man and is thin on the wings and bottom six. Chicago lacks a high end goalie and their D depth isn't great.

No one gets everything.
 

Senor Catface

Registered User
Jul 25, 2006
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I've been a very big Gagner supporter, I have been all along and that hasn't changed. That being said. With Gagner I see a guy who looks like he is trying really hard a lot of the time but still manages to be in the wrong spot consistently defensively. Is he trying to get better? Sure. But after 5 years in the NHL he is not substantially better defensively now he was 3 years ago.

You can say Eberle is lazy and doesn't care about getting back, but I don't see that very often. He has less defensive responsibility, but that is because he is a winger. I see Gagner floundering away missing a back check resulting in a goal against far more frequently than Eberle.

Eberle has never been anything but a class act on and off the ice. He makes a comment about saying it sucks when he isn't playing with Nuge and Hall and you take it to mean he is some entitled brat. You are way off base I think.

Some posters have a hard time being wrong, so false realities are created to support the argument.

Eberle will always be better than Gagner.
 
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Sloth Slothersons*

Guest
Well I would like this top six

Hall Crosby Eberle
Ovechkin RNH Yakupov

lol, you can't have everything. A top six of Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yak/Monahan/MPS would be very, very formidable and a fairly damn complete top six.

You have goal scorers, 2 way players, speed, skill, playmaking, dangling, guts/gumption, some decent size even once RNH and MPS bulk up a bit ... I mean there's only so much realistically you can expect especially in a cap era.

There is no team that is balanced just perfectly. Boston could use more high end skill and goal scoring. Their D depth is questionable too. Pittsburgh's D can be shaky as well and their goaltending can be suspect. It's really only this year that they've adequately found good winger talent for Sid/Geno to team with as well. Vancouver lacks a high-end no.1 d-man and is thin on the wings and bottom six. Chicago lacks a high end goalie and their D depth isn't great.

No one gets everything.

Man that top 6 looks good.
 

Mc5RingsAndABeer

5-14-6-1
May 25, 2011
20,184
1,385
Power Forward - Most teams really don't have this player. I've heard Taylor Hall described as such, same with Monahan.

3rd Line Centerman - This is on the GM to find this piece, but Monahan from what I've read basically does all the things people want from this player (automatic in the dot, big, 2-way center).

Top Pairing D - Schultz, Klefbom, Smid, Petry. You still have Gagner to dangle for another top 4 d-man at some point in the long run.

Bottom 4 D-Man - Again, a position the GM should be able to find on their own.

Smart teams do not gift away their top end talent to fill these kinds of needs when they have other disposal parts.

:handclap:

We actually have a lot of the stuff that is very difficult for teams to acquire - raw skill. Finding a 3rd line centre and a bottom 4 dman is very important, but it shouldn't come at the cost of a legitimately good player.
 

nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
34,557
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HF boards
I was not one of the people that developed a man-crush on Eberle last season. I didn't think the points were a true indicator of his play, people were misled by what they saw in the box score, but i promise you I wasn't one of them.

If it comes down to trading Eberle or one of the 1st overalls, then it's Eberle for me AINEC.

Why trade any of those top 4 forwards? It has been proven time and again that by respected and knowledgeable posters that signing them all will in no way handicap the Oilers cap situation going forward.

Trim the fat not the meat.
 

McOilers97

Registered User
Jan 10, 2012
6,506
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Why trade any of those top 4 forwards? It has been proven time and again that by respected and knowledgeable posters that signing them all will in no way handicap the Oilers cap situation going forward.

Trim the fat not the meat.

I'm not saying make a trade for cap reasons, I'm saying you do it to improve the mix of the forward group. Unless we can get a big top 6 fwd by trading someone else, then one of them- Eberle IMO- might need to be dealt.
 

nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
34,557
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HF boards
I'm not saying make a trade for cap reasons, I'm saying you do it to improve the mix of the forward group. Unless we can get a big top 6 fwd by trading someone else, then one of them- Eberle IMO- might need to be dealt.

Once again, you trim the fat, not the meat. Trading Eberle should be option #10 for improving the mix in the top 6.

Trade Gagner and Hrmsky for top 4 blueline help. Sign a stop gap #2C. Draft one of the 3 big centers. Playing Gagner as a #2C isn't much different than any of those three guys a year from now, considering that all 3 are praised for great 2 way abilities, and Gagner is still pathetic in his own end and on the dot.

You don't move out core pieces like Eberle part way through a rebuild to fill holes or achieve a better mix. Thats a panic move. You manipulate other assets to compliment the core.
 

Game 8

Registered User
Mar 8, 2003
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Soundwave;64346007[B said:
]None of the four are that much better than each other. [/B]There's no Crosby or Malkin in that group. Not even Tavares or Ovechkin. That's actually the newsflash.

The Oilers need all of them, they will have to carry the team at certain times if this organization is ever going to have a successful season + multiple playoff round wins.

A 1-line offense with no singular dominant player isn't scaring anyone. You need at least two lines that are pretty damn good upfront.

Of the four of them I think Nugent Hopkins will actually be the best in the long term, but he's been the worst this year. Player development. Sometimes that's how it goes.

Gagner, EDM 1st, Paajarvi, Petry, Hemsky, and multiple other pieces should be available to "fill needs", but really how about the GM actually does his job and find a diamond in the rough once in a while? Even freaking Calgary, they got Giordano and Brodie for what exactly? They stole Glencross for nothing. Building a franchise by trading stars for filler/secondary pieces is a horrible way to build a team.

Sorry missed that, Hall is head and shoulders above.
 

Hockey Buddha

Darnell Nurse
Aug 24, 2005
2,499
12
I'm also sick of this whole "If you trade Eberle, it will piss Hall off and he'll want to leave!" argument.

That is ********.

Guaranteed: Taylor Hall wants to win a Stanley Cup more than he wants to play with Jordan Eberle. The reason he would be asking for a trade down the road would be that management has done a ****** job addressing the roster holes, and this team is still pissing in the wind, talking about "in a few years".

One could argue that they've become close friends, and they're roommates. I can't see it making Hall happy to have his closest friend on the team traded.

Personally, I'm sick of the let's trade from our team's young core argument. That is ********. Trading Eberle away out of frustration is just a really dumb idea. The kid is going to be a great NHLer for years and years to come.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Sorry missed that, Hall is head and shoulders above.

He's not "head and shoulders" above. He scored how many goals when we badly needed them after that Calgary blow out? He was shut down, the same as Eberle and RNH.

He's a terrific player having a good season, but he has ONE total more goal than Eberle. The NHL doesn't gift goals for effort, you have to light the red lamp.

I think some Oiler fans are counting their chickens a bit prematurely here. We do have some skill, but the *fact* is no one on this roster right now is on pace to score even 30 goals (pro-rated to 82 games), let alone a true "elite" 40+ goals.

Here's a sobering stat -- if we replaced Eberle with Lucic's production from this year, we'd have a league LOW 103 goals. You're not sniffing the playoffs with that, I don't care how much Lucic huffs and puffs and sticks his chest out.

We cannot trade away any of the kids. We have another good pick coming up which should address a need either at the center position or defense. We need to *add* to that, not subtract, a good GM would find a way to add auxiliary pieces.
 
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Psychoil

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
3,667
160
we're not trading jordan freaking eberle. we're just not. this kid is having a bad season and hes on pace for over 60 points......we've sucked for 4 years so that we can acquire the pieces to trade for better players...and those pieces dont include jordan eberle

they include guys like mps, gernat, marcinin hamilton, pitlick, and a bunch of other guys
 

GretzkytoKurri9917

"LIVE LONG AND PROSPER"
Oct 6, 2008
17,766
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we're not trading jordan freaking eberle. we're just not. this kid is having a bad season and hes on pace for over 60 points......we've sucked for 4 years so that we can acquire the pieces to trade for better players...and those pieces dont include jordan eberle

they include guys like mps, gernat, marcinin hamilton, pitlick, and a bunch of other guys

Those players would get jack all .
 

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