Post-Game Talk: Oilers win 4-1

[bombers15]

Good game.
Debacle.
Good game.
Debacle.
Good game.

I know what to expect Wednesday vs. the Yotes.

 

[Worraps]

This win kinda showed me we need two more Teemu Hartikanen type players on this team.

Guys who will get in on the forecheck and are hard on the puck down there and then allow our skilled forwards to take over. Ideally one would be able to play center. They don't need to be big point players per se, just bring that energy into the game.

Basically it's the main thing the team is missing.

Good game for Magnus too.

Would really like the see Nugent Hopkins with Yakupov at some point. Eberle/Hall are fine with Gagner for a game or two.

The more I watch this team play, the more I think this line up is inevitable once Jones comes back:

Hartikainen-RNH-Yakupov
Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
Jones-Belanger-Petrell/Paajarvi

 

[Gord]

Hemsky and Yakupov are bleeding chances against. I really feel for Gagner who is playing well in all zones and his trying his hardest to cover up for the other two. It's too bad that we can't send Yakupov to the AHL to get him acclimated to the pro game because he's lost. Something needs to be done about that line, i'm not sure if switching RNH and Gagner will do the trick but something needs to be done because it's ugly more often than not.

I'm with you and the others that are heaping praise on Gagner. From what I have seen, he's doing one heck of a job so far this year despite his linemates, not because of them. My unsung hero so far this year for the Oilers.

 

[Mr Forever]

The more I watch this team play, the more I think this line up is inevitable once Jones comes back:

Hartikainen-RNH-Yakupov
Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
Jones-Belanger-Petrell/Paajarvi

Swap Hemsky and Smyth and those are really solid lines.

 

[stratedge]

My bet is that we eventually see Hartikainen and Yakupov switch places, so that Horcoff and Smyth can protect him defensively.

 

[OilerTyler]

The more I watch this team play, the more I think this line up is inevitable once Jones comes back:

Hartikainen-RNH-Yakupov
Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
Jones-Belanger-Petrell/Paajarvi

Hemsky is going to get demoted before Yakupov

 

[CupofOil]

gagner doesn't get nearly enough credit for working on all facets of his game each and every year... he has (albeit slowly) molded himself into a somewhat competent 2-way center who's battle-level is fairly high... he'll never be big enough to play a "big mans" game, but you can very rarely complain that he isn't trying out there

gagner will slow down, as there is no way he continues at a PPG pace for the entire season, but he's a good player at 0.70 PPG as well... as i said in another post, he was one of the most productive 2nd liners in the entire league the last couple of seasons (PPG wise).... i have a place for gagner on my team any day

While i agree with your assessment and think that Gagner has hit another gear, do the Oilers have room for a $5 mil/yr Gagner? I could see him getting in the $4.5-5 mil/yr range if he puts up say, 40 pts in 48 games this season with an improved all around game.

I like this version of Gagner a lot if he can maintain his consistency but can we afford to keep him and still build a tough to play against top 6 is the real question. That's going to be a tough decision for Tambellini with an RNH extension on the horizon, Smid then Petry, Schultz and Yakupov not too long after.

 

[Worraps]

Hemsky is going to get demoted before Yakupov

It's not really a demotion. He is still going to play a similar amount of minutes.

To this point Hemsky has shown that he lacks the hockey IQ to use Yakupov's one timer and someone who turns over the puck as much as he does has no business being on an ES line with a rookie.

 

[Worraps]

My bet is that we eventually see Hartikainen and Yakupov switch places, so that Horcoff and Smyth can protect him defensively.

That would be incredibly wasteful. Yakupov's one-timer is probably the most dangerous offensive weapon this team has. You don't giving Horcoff responsibility for teeing it up.

Horcoff and Smyth also aren't that good defensively. Being slow and not very physical hurts them on both ends of the ice. RNH is more capable of protecting Yak.

 

[OilerTyler]

It's not really a demotion. He is still going to play a similar amount of minutes.

To this point Hemsky has shown that he lacks the hockey IQ to use Yakupov's one timer and someone who turns over the puck as much as he does has no business being on an ES line with a rookie.

I meant to say "isn't" in that post but I think you picked up on that.

It certainly is a demotion. He might get the same minutes but playing with Horcoff and Smyth on a defense oriented line instead of playing in an offensive role is definitely a demotion.

No one has been able to find Yakupov's one timer this year. I haven't really seen Yakupov open to fire one yet though. It's probably harder since he is playing on the left side right now.

The whole top six has had problems with turnovers, not just Hemsky. He is just the scapegoat.

 

[Kamus]

Hemsky is going to get demoted before Yakupov

I think people who believe this are not watching Yakupov closesly enough.
He's going to be a great player very soon, but right now he's a disaster in the d and neutral zone.

A lot of Hemsky's turnovers are because of Yakupov's 100 mph foot off the ice passes. Also Yakupov is trying very high risk plays all over the ice and his teammates are just not expecting it especially in the d zone.

Yakupov's biggest issue right now is that he's just way too tight on the ice, the kid has to relax and just make some simple plays.

 

[OneMoreAstronaut]

Haven't had a chance to read this whole thread yet so it may have already been commented on, but man, Gagner's effort on that empty-netter was phenomenal. I only got to watch game highlights, but boy were they a pleasure to watch. And I did see that others had commented on his half-clapper on the earlier goal too, that was also a beauty. Really liking his game this year.

 

[CornKicker]

WE generated few EV chances in the Calgary game. We weren't gaining space and working through the checking well. Throw a half decent blanket on our offense and theres not much fight back. We saw that with the youth at the AHL level and now here. The tight checking clubs are giving us fits. The Columbus, Colorado type clubs are the free bingo squares on the calendar. There aren't many.

it looked to me like that got addressed, i noticed several times when nuge/eb/hall would dump the puck past the D and go get it when they didnt have an odd man rush, they didnt do this in calagry at all instead turning it over a lot. given it was colorado but if they start showing it again vs the yotes then you can see that coaching is taking effect.

 

[oilersrule14]

While i agree with your assessment and think that Gagner has hit another gear, do the Oilers have room for a $5 mil/yr Gagner? I could see him getting in the $4.5-5 mil/yr range if he puts up say, 40 pts in 48 games this season with an improved all around game.

I like this version of Gagner a lot if he can maintain his consistency but can we afford to keep him and still build a tough to play against top 6 is the real question. That's going to be a tough decision for Tambellini with an RNH extension on the horizon, Smid then Petry, Schultz and Yakupov not too long after.

They don't seem to be worried about it. I read a Lowe interview where he said he predicts that the cap will continue to increase. He stated that he doesn't see having a problem keeping everyone for the next 7 years. And I guess if the cap does increase then there won't be a problem.

 

[stratedge]

That would be incredibly wasteful. Yakupov's one-timer is probably the most dangerous offensive weapon this team has. You don't giving Horcoff responsibility for teeing it up.

Horcoff and Smyth also aren't that good defensively. Being slow and not very physical hurts them on both ends of the ice. RNH is more capable of protecting Yak.

They (Horcoff and Smyth) are smart with the puck and don't turn it over at the blue line. They're wise enough to realize a second earlier than most when a young rookie like Yak is hanging onto the puck too long and is about to turn it over, so a guy like Horcoff can start heading back down the ice at a time when a guy like Gagner is still holding out for a forward pass. That's what's been wrong with the 2nd line so far; when one guy gets into trouble, the other 2 are ahead of the puck waiting and still in a fully offensive mind-set.

Yak's problems right now are two-fold:

1) He makes bad decisions with the puck.
2) His line mates don't anticipate his bad decisions with the puck in order to compensate. They're 3 very offensively focused guys.

The first will be solved with time and experience, but in the meantime if we want to win games, a smart coaching decision could help to resolve problem #2 with line adjustments. I'm a big fan of keeping Gagner and Hemsky together for the entire season no matter what.

Also, and I don't think this is fully appreciated yet, but I think Yak's playing style is actually well suited to dump-and-chase, and he could benefit from that with Horc/Smyth. And you say... "But stratedge, what about line mates to feed him for the one-timer?"... right, because that's been happening a lot with Hemsky and Gagner 5v5? That'll come later, but for now I could see him curling out of the corner after cycling the puck and then firing a quick shot. That one timer is nice for the PP but it's not going to be a big factor 5v5... I think you'll see a lot more goals from him tapping in back door passes then full swing slap shots.

Hartikainen is much less a turn-over machine, and so doesn't need to be baby-sat as much.

 

[dustrock]

I thought the first line played well 5-on-5. The PPs were a direct result of their pressure.

The 4th line was pretty great for most of the game.

Still felt like lines 2-4 didn't really generate much in the way of offence 5-on-5.

You really need the occasional grinder goal, especially against teams like Calgary.

 

[oilersrule14]

They (Horcoff and Smyth) are smart with the puck and don't turn it over at the blue line. They're wise enough to realize a second earlier than most when a young rookie like Yak is hanging onto the puck too long and is about to turn it over, so a guy like Horcoff can start heading back down the ice at a time when a guy like Gagner is still holding out for a forward pass. That's what's been wrong with the 2nd line so far; when one guy gets into trouble, the other 2 are ahead of the puck waiting and still in a fully offensive mind-set.

Yak's problems right now are two-fold:

1) He makes bad decisions with the puck.
2) His line mates don't anticipate his bad decisions with the puck in order to compensate. They're 3 very offensively focused guys.

The first will be solved with time and experience, but in the meantime if we want to win games, a smart coaching decision could help to resolve problem #2 with line adjustments. I'm a big fan of keeping Gagner and Hemsky together for the entire season no matter what.

Also, and I don't think this is fully appreciated yet, but I think Yak's playing style is actually well suited to dump-and-chase, and he could benefit from that with Horc/Smyth. And you say... "But stratedge, what about line mates to feed him for the one-timer?"... right, because that's been happening a lot with Hemsky and Gagner 5v5? That'll come later, but for now I could see him curling out of the corner after cycling the puck and then firing a quick shot. That one timer is nice for the PP but it's not going to be a big factor 5v5... I think you'll see a lot more goals from him tapping in back door passes then full swing slap shots.

Hartikainen is much less a turn-over machine, and so doesn't need to be baby-sat as much.

I've noticed the bolded statement too and I agree. But I'm not ready to give up on the 2nd line combo just yet. You're right that we'll probably see a lot more goals from tapping in back door passes than full swing slap shots, but I think Hemsky's better for feeding him those as well. When it comes to scoring goals, his current linemates are the best option, none of these guys are strangers to cycling, Hemsky spent years playing with Smyth and Horcoff. They'll hopefully establish a mix that works well for them. Krueger was quoted as saying that if we switch linemates on Nail it would be like starting back at step one. Translating that to the two problems you identified, he's saying Fixing #2 would hinder fixing #1.

 

[backhandsauce]

Yakupov's first shift last night was horrendous. The kid needs to settle down. Maybe RNH would be best with him. RNH seems to play a calm game. Hall and Yak together could be redundant.

 

[Worraps]

Yakupov's first shift last night was horrendous. The kid needs to settle down. Maybe RNH would be best with him. RNH seems to play a calm game. Hall and Yak together could be redundant.

I think playing ES with RNH would make Yakupov's learning process a lot easier. As young as RNH is, he is probably the most composed player we have at both ends of the ice (which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of our veterans).

 

[McDNicks17]

I think playing ES with RNH would make Yakupov's learning process a lot easier. As young as RNH is, he is probably the most composed player we have at both ends of the ice (which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of our veterans).

Yeah, I think it's time to try a Gagner <-> RNH swap.

 

[jebs]

I like Nuge on the top line for now. Good for his development to be playing against other top lines.

Krueger is not sheltering the top line like Renney did, which is why people are saying RNH hasn't been as good this season. It will take time.

 

[PumpkinBombX]

I just wanted to point out to the people who thought the Belanger line was our 4th line:

They actually got more ES minutes than Smyth, Horc and Petrell.

Smyth and Horc killed some penalties which up there ice time, and Horc had some PP time as well.

Personally, I feel it's a great job on the coaches part of managing minutes, when playing with a lead.

Pretty much every line was getting equal even strength minutes.

As for people not liking nuge on the top line:

He's playing completely un-sheltered minutes, and not getting beat. He's winning face-offs, hasn't let an ES goal against yet showing a lot of defensive responsibility, and against calgary couldn't be knocked off the puck by giordano and boumeester, and last night he schooled two Avs defenders on the boards without getting knocked off the puck.

As happy as I am with Gagner's play, his minutes are a lot more sheltered right now, and I think his play would suffer playing the minutes and competition that nuge is playing against.

 

[Turrican*]

I like Nuge on the top line for now. Good for his development to be playing against other top lines.

Krueger is not sheltering the top line like Renney did, which is why people are saying RNH hasn't been as good this season. It will take time.

Hopkins is getting put through boot camp. I love it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

-the Hall line was in beast mode all night last night...created chances almost every shift

-loved Harti and Pajaarvi's game last night, played like a bull and gritty as hell...keep playing like that and we may actually have a decent 3rd line

-the 2nd line is bleeding chances against...I think we need to put Yak with some guys who are more defensibly responsible. Too many turnovers but that'll happen with rookies

-the Horcoff line did very little and I think it's safe to say they were the 4th line last night

-that was a big win cause now we play 3 games in 3-1/2 days on the road...if they go 1-1-1 it would be great

 

[Worraps]

I like Nuge on the top line for now. Good for his development to be playing against other top lines.

Krueger is not sheltering the top line like Renney did, which is why people are saying RNH hasn't been as good this season. It will take time.

Whatever line Nuge is on is the top line.