Confirmed with Link: Oilers will be giving up third round pick in Lucic/Neal swap

[Ragss]

They were a goal away on either side from meeting the conditions for the draft pick

But yeah let’s take the juvenile new age life’s not fair everything should be handed to us route

This is sports were talking about. It's all juvenile.

 

[snipes]

I wonder if Katz fires the lawyer or law firm that represented them at the arbitration, how did they manage to lose that arbitration so badly? There’s no foundation for that pick going to the Flames that I’ve seen at least.

 

[shoop]

Winning the trade either way isn't the point. The league arbitrarily changed the rules in a single instance to f*** us, and only us, again. Lucic could have easily scored 3 and Neal none, the conditions were still up in the air.

No it isn't. It's got more to do with your personal viewpoint than anything.

Good things happen to the Oilers? You explain them without giving the league credit.

Bad things happen to the Oilers? The league is trying to f*ck the Oilers.

It's a victim complex and just sad.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Hey @Fourier - you math guys can probably do this better than me

We need to figure out the curve for Neal, vs points, vs games, and when he'd hit his magic number, vs. Lucic, and his late-season ramp up, to really see what conditions are met. I don't have SPSS or any other stat packages on my current PC so I bow down to you guys Oh, and I've had friends over and may have partaken in a few beverages so I am not the best at stats at the moment lol.

They wanted to correct this, the proper course of action is to simply award Calgary a phantom 3rd pick at the end of the round without removing the Oilers pick.

 

[frag2]

They were a goal away on either side from meeting the conditions for the draft pick

But yeah let’s take the juvenile new age life’s not fair everything should be handed to us route

The only team being handed anything is Calgary. Edmonton actually followed what was outlined under the trade conditions. Terms not met and that shouldve been end of discussion

I wonder if Katz fires the lawyer or law firm that represented them at the arbitration, how did they manage to lose that arbitration so badly? There’s no foundation for that pick going to the Flames that I’ve seen at least.

Was there actual arbitration or was this something the league just handed down?

 

[Samus44]

No it isn't. It's got more to do with your personal viewpoint than anything.

Good things happen to the Oilers? You explain them without giving the league credit.

Bad things happen to the Oilers? The league is trying to f*ck the Oilers.

It's a victim complex and just sad.

You can convince yourself all you want that people just have a "victim complex" but it's pretty clear they get the short end of the stick all the time. None of your examples to the contrary were valid or a logical equivalency, hence my rebuttal that you conveniently decided not to rebut. The Oilers got f***ed here as they have in the past and there's no two way's about it. Unjust decisions should be met with derision and critique. The point is the principal of the matter which refers to maxims. Clearly no maxim was followed here, it was an arbitrary decision with no like precedent or equivalent ruling. You're not better than others for taking a conveniently warm and fuzzy sanctimonious high road vs the 95% of us who are just being honest about what happened. It's a superiority complex and it's just sad.

 

[shoop]

You can convince yourself all you want that people just have a "victim complex" but it's pretty clear they get the short end of the stick all the time.

Except when getting handed the right to draft McDavid and the huge benefit to the franchise and city of being selected as a hub.

The point is the principal of the matter which refers to maxims.

This literally makes no sense. I think you might be referring to the concept of a legal maxim.

We are living in unprecedented times and this was an unprecedented situation. Not sure what the principal has to do with anything. If you are referring to a principle then please point out the principle involved.

Your word salad makes zero sense. Please try and restate it.

You're not better than others for taking a conveniently warm and fuzzy sanctimonious high road vs the 95% of us who are just being honest about what happened. It's a superiority complex and it's just sad.

It's the difference between a third and a fourth rounder. Saying that it isn't really a big deal is far from signaling moral superiority. Your anger is irrational. Your insults say much more about your than they do about me.

 

[Faelko]

Except when getting handed the right to draft McDavid and the huge benefit to the franchise and city of being selected as a hub.

It’s not like the NHL randomly decided to just gift McDavid to the Oilers. They won the senseless draft lottery the NHL put in. It’s time people get over it.

 

[shoop]

It’s not like the NHL randomly decided to just gift McDavid to the Oilers. They won the senseless draft lottery the NHL put in. It’s time people get over it.

It's time people get over it is a perfect phrase for this situation as well. It's the difference between a third and fourth round pick when Oilers fans would have been fine with an unconditional third being part of the original trade.

 

[snipes]

The only team being handed anything is Calgary. Edmonton actually followed what was outlined under the trade conditions. Terms not met and that shouldve been end of discussion



Was there actual arbitration or was this something the league just handed down?

John Shannon tweeted this morning that it went to arbitration already and this was the decision.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Except when getting handed the right to draft McDavid and the huge benefit to the franchise and city of being selected as a hub.



This literally makes no sense. I think you might be referring to the concept of a legal maxim.

We are living in unprecedented times and this was an unprecedented situation. Not sure what the principal has to do with anything. If you are referring to a principle then please point out the principle involved.

Your word salad makes zero sense. Please try and restate it.



It's the difference between a third and a fourth rounder. Saying that it isn't really a big deal is far from signaling moral superiority. Your anger is irrational. Your insults say much more about your than they do about me.

You know the league actually changed the rules to try and prevent the oilers from
Drafting first overall again? And you know the NHL has no part in the actual draft lottery.

 

[shoop]

You know the league actually changed the rules to try and prevent the oilers from Drafting first overall again?

I know that is the conspiracy theory. Has anyone from the league ever publicly stated that?

And you know the NHL has no part in the actual draft lottery.

I know. But people who dislike the Oilers cited the league rigging the draft as another unfounded conspiracy theory.

Thanks for proving my point about the irrationality of the anger around this decision, even if that proof was provided unintentionally.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I know that is the conspiracy theory. Has anyone from the league ever publicly stated that?



I know. But people who dislike the Oilers cited the league rigging the draft as another unfounded conspiracy theory.

Thanks for proving my point about the irrationality of the anger around this decision, even if that proof was provided unintentionally.

Why would they just change the draft to stop teams from drafting first overall if someone wasn’t winning it 3 times in a row.

 

[shoop]

Why would they just change the draft to stop teams from drafting first overall if someone wasn’t winning it 3 times in a row.

So you agree nobody from the league has ever publicly stated the rules were changed to screw the Oilers.

 

[Samus44]

Except when getting handed the right to draft McDavid and the huge benefit to the franchise and city of being selected as a hub.

The weren't "handed" anything. They got the right to draft McDavid because they had an awful season and WON a random draft lottery. No decision was made to explicitly benefit the Oilers, they got lucky. In fact the draft lottery rules were changed to a format that ended up helping the Oilers because many felt they got lucky too many times before.

Again like I said they weren't chosen as a Hub as a favour and it's disingenuous to think so. They were chosen because no other city had anywhere near as ideal a setup in terms of infrastructure, they had the lowest Covid numbers, and a massive push from ownership and the government including a detailed plan. Vegas having a massive spike in cases wasn't a favour for the Oilers.

This literally makes no sense. I think you might be referring to the concept of a legal maxim.

We are living in unprecedented times and this was an unprecedented situation. Not sure what the principal has to do with anything. If you are referring to a principle then please point out the principle involved.

Your word salad makes zero sense. Please try and restate it.

No i'm referring to a maxim as in Kantian ethics, which is the genesis of the saying the principal of the matter. A maxim is a universal truth, as in if an act is right then it ought to always be right and should be consistently applied. If the NHL wants to use pro rated stats and make exceptions for unfair realities due to Covid then they ought to apply it to all situations. This is the only example of them doing so.

Yes my word salad makes no sense. lol. Attack my position and point but don't be a coward by trying to discredit me for something besides my point. I have the experience in life to know I make sense and know my logical ability isn't lacking.

It's the difference between a third and a fourth rounder. Saying that it isn't really a big deal is far from signaling moral superiority. Your anger is irrational. Your insults say much more about your than they do about me.

Difference between a 3rd or a 4th rounder? What are you talking about? The Flames weren't getting a 4th if the conditions weren't met, they weren't getting any pick.

What insults? Are you talking about my last sentence, you know the one that just rephrased your comment about me having a victim complex? Because that would be pretty ironic. If you're going to go against the grain perhaps try convincing people with facts instead of talking down to them. It's you, not me, attempting to rationalize that everyone is wrong and that you have some almighty insight that most can't grasp. Calling a spade a spade and rightfully acknowledging a wrong, and being upset by it, isn't a victim mentality it's an expectation for a just decision. It's fair to expect consistency.

 

[Samus44]

So you agree nobody from the league has ever publicly stated the rules were changed to screw the Oilers.

Dude pay attention it was changed as there was a consistent outcry from numerous clubs about the rules benefiting tanking. Nobody on here is saying the changing of the draft lottery rules screwed the Oilers but it is funny that it was changed after the Oilers were benefited from them. It's ironic that the change of rules helped them it wasn't some favour that you seem to be implying it was.

 

[shoop]

No i'm referring to a maxim as in Kantian ethics, which is the genesis of the saying the principal of the matter.

The game has started. Get over yourself.

 

[Bangers]

Why would they just change the draft to stop teams from drafting first overall if someone wasn’t winning it 3 times in a row.

To be fair, I don't think that was a move specifically against the Oilers. Even if it were the Leafs or Bruins who won it three years in a row, the rest of the NHL GMs would have had a fit and the NHL likely would have changed the rules.

 

[Samus44]

The game has started. Get over yourself.

Nice retort but It wasn't when I posted it. Get over yourself.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'm not overly miffed about it.

The Oilers probably wouldn't have won a single game in October without the PP and Neal was a huge part of that unit's success early on.

 

[alphahelix]

Clear and obvious to some Oilers fans maybe? Every indication is Vegas was under serious consideration for a long time as the western hub.



No. Nevada's numbers weren't that bad in the initial stages.”

Before the virus had SUBSTANTIALLY arrived, Las Vegas’ mayor said that Vegas “wasn’t China” and that they should use the city as a “control group” and leave everything open. She continued to fight against closures with the backing of right wing politicians and the president, voicing against the governors school closure order in April and disagreeing with MGM and Wynns early decisions to close their casinos for public safety. They weren’t testing In the early days and didn’t open their first drive thru testing site until much later than other jurisdictions, and they were inviting the virus in. The numbers that they did have were poor compared to any Canadian province. By APRIL 22 they had recorded more deaths than Alberta has TODAY. (201) The NHL was being intentionally ignorant and were being offered financial incentives to choose Vegas. So, you’re misrepresenting facts, end of story.

IMPORTANTLY, Edmonton and Alberta are doing the NHL a favour by allowing games to be played there and risking public healthy and safety. This was the only clear and obvious decision to anyone who was concerned with player safety, even if you suggest otherwise in a blatantly incorrect manner. This is not a favour by the league to Edmonton. There are few cities that could have hosted this safely and Edmonton is taking a risk to do so. I’m not sure if its accurate but I heard that the request to have the Oilers dressing room modified (cut in half) came from the Flames, despite the fact that the Oilers were not getting exclusive use of their room during the tournament.



That's the exact problem I am pointing out. When the NHL that makes a decision beneficial to the Oilers certain fans will give the league no credit but will howl like a banshee when a different NHL decision doesn't go the Oilers way.

With this language you are again implying that the NHL “made a decision” in regards to the draft lottery, which is illegal, fraudulent, and almost certainly another inaccurate misrepresentation of facts. The Oilers lost lotteries that they desperately needed to win (Ekblad) due to their Pitiful D corps at the time.



Victimized? That's the dramatic language that needs to come to an end.

I am arguing, IMO effectively, that victimized isn’t “dramatic” language in this instance, it is simply accurate language. There are many instances of the league actively making decisions that handicap Edmonton’s competitiveness. You have been unable to provide any example of a decision that improves Edmonton’s competitiveness. More importantly, what is at issue is not ‘necessarily’ whether they are nice or naughty to Edmonton (They should treat all teams equally), it is that they are violating their own precedents, failing to follow written trade orders, contracts, and CBA language, or modifying that language at junctures which conveniently penalize Edmonton and benefit other teams.


I don't think anyone in the league believes the Flames need to be protected.

The Flames were in a predicament when the initial arena proposal was shot down and the city is full of empty skyscrapers and bankruptcies, and Ken King was one of their biggest proponents, and their fans are flaky and their team is about to enter into a phase of struggle. But I agree the Flames should not be protected any more than any other team.

 

[shoop]

IMPORTANTLY, Edmonton and Alberta are doing the NHL a favour by allowing games to be played there and risking public healthy and safety.

Sure. Believe that if you want.

With this language you are again implying that the NHL “made a decision” in regards to the draft lottery, which is illegal, fraudulent, and almost certainly another inaccurate misrepresentation of facts.

Your implication of what I said doesn't make it what I actually said.

I am arguing, IMO effectively, that victimized isn’t “dramatic” language in this instance, it is simply accurate language.

Your bolding the entire post is really weird, awkward and dramatic.

More importantly, what is at issue is not ‘necessarily’ whether they are nice or naughty to Edmonton (They should treat all teams equally), it is that they are violating their own precedents, failing to follow written trade orders, contracts, and CBA language, or modifying that language at junctures which conveniently penalize Edmonton and benefit other teams.

Lots to digest in the word salad. Which precedent did the league violate? What are 'written trade orders'? What in the CBA language did the ruling contradict?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Did Disney buy the league recently or something? What a Mickey Mouse operation...

 

[nabob]

Somehow the odds makers have Calgary as the favorites to win the series.

The Jets have better offense, better goaltending and better/more experienced coaching. The two teams' defenses are pretty much equal. I hope the Jets embarrass them, much like Colorado did last spring.

when did Cassie Campbell get a job setting odds?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

when did Cassie Campbell get a job setting odds?

The dairy business has no future so she mooved along.