GDT: Oilers vs Flame SS. sept 21, 2014

[ToeMcDrag83]

Not to be amongst the "step away from the ledge" type condescending comments, I do hate it when I come to GDT/PGT to vent for cathatic purposes and being told to calm the **** down.

But how about a few more games and data samples before we write certain players off? Arcobello has clearly had a lackluster start, but it's not like we have the luxury of cutting centers from our lineup. Last I checked, the center depth of this team is not exactly stellar. We have a #1C and a #3/4C. Everything else is up in the air, I personally wouldn't cut Arco, Draisaitl, Lander, Yakimov, Khaira, Acton etc. until I've seen their pre-season effort in its entirety.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Just checked the Event Summaries for both games.

Yakimov was 67% on draws - best of any Oiler in either of the games.

Draisaitl was 62%, Gordon was 61%, and Acton 61%.

The rest aren't worth talking about, including Arco at 47%.

Outside of Gordon, it is no surprise that the centers taking draws at home against the inferior Flames' squad is going to have better faceoff stats.

 

[OnTheBrink]

Are either of the games archived anywhere?

 

[Eirhead*]

Not to be amongst the "step away from the ledge" type condescending comments, I do hate it when I come to GDT/PGT to vent for cathatic purposes and being told to calm the **** down.

But how about a few more games and data samples before we write certain players off? Arcobello has clearly had a lackluster start, but it's not like we have the luxury of cutting centers from our lineup. Last I checked, the center depth of this team is not exactly stellar. We have a #1C and a #3/4C. Everything else is up in the air, I personally wouldn't cut Arco, Draisaitl, Lander, Yakimov, Khaira, Acton etc. until I've seen their pre-season effort in its entirety.

Oh I agree. Particularly in the case of Arco, I'd like to see a regular season tryout again. With the situation at center, I'd really like to see 5 centers on the opening night roster. It worked for Team Canada in the Olympics and it's not unusual for NHL teams to have an abundance of centers rather than going with 8 straight up natural wingers.

 

[Red Deer Rebel]

Outside of Gordon, it is no surprise that the centers taking draws at home against the inferior Flames' squad is going to have better faceoff stats.

Arcobello went 3 for 12 against 19 year old Sean Monahan, 3 for 7 against Corban Knight, and 1 for 3 against Joe Colborne.

He is older and more experienced than all of these players, and should be schooling them. He had a losing record against all of them, and got totally owned by Monahan.

 

[CupofOil]

Okay.

This is where I think there is a wide gulf between reality and the anti Arco movement.

I am too lazy to pull this together but will go out on a limb anyways and make a dangerous assumption. There are very very very very very very very few players capable of going on a 15 game hot streak in the AHL and ending up with 28 points, 10 of which were goals, and since you are rounding that is technically a 1.9 ppg rate. Not only did he manage that but he managed it with no true elite talent on his wings.

Combine that with his NHL point production, faceoffs, hits, 2 way game, take aways, relatively low give aways, Corsi... My lord the guy deserves more than 3 games in preseason before we blast away what he has done as "lucky" and say he has no chance what so ever.

Saying even Calgary wouldn't take him is about 1000 times less accurate than saying Gagner was going to be bought and turfed by Tampa for example. We at least have solid speculation that was what they intended. Where as the whole "Calgary wouldn't take him" is completely fabricated.

Hell Calgary took Smid and Potter, who are you guys trying to kid? They plan on playing Johnny hockey most likely in the NHL this year. I'd put Arco's hot streak in the AHL far above Johnny hockey's dismantling of the college league for NHL effectiveness this coming year.

It's funny that you mention the gulf between reality and the anti-Arco movement but what i see is reality being dismissed from the Arco supporter crowd (btw, i don't know why somebody who criticizes a player is anti-said player, i think we all want him to succeed).

Arco scoring well at the AHL level isn't exactly a revelation so not sure why that's being used as some huge positive.
By and large, he's a near 1 ppg AHL player but if you want to use small sample sizes, how about Gagner scoring 28 points in 28 games to start 2 seasons ago IN THE NHL. That's way more impressive than anything Arco has done anywhere in his career and that sample size is twice as long as the Arco one IN THE AHL.

You talk about all these skills that Arco exhibitted as if he was some unstoppable buzzsaw in his NHL stint.
What i saw was a player who was passable defensively (an upgrade on Gagner i suppose but not much), threw some hits that qualified as "love taps" for the most part and had some lucky assists because of some fortunate bounces, very few of which were largely driven by Arco himself. He also has no finish whatsoever at the NHL level.

He's a guy who should be a callup in case of injury, not the lead dog for one of the middle center spots. I was glad when they dealt Gagner because i thought that MacT had a solid contingency plan in place (my mistake for believing in MacT) and i was glad that they re-signed Arco because i thought that he would be a decent short term callup in case of injury. Little did i know that he would be competing with rookies for the #2 and #3C spots and basically be handed a full time spot. Even the most avid Arco fan can't possibly be comfortable with the prospect of him being a full time starter this season.

 

[doulos]

Arcobello went 3 for 12 against 19 year old Sean Monahan, 3 for 7 against Corban Knight, and 1 for 3 against Joe Colborne.

He is older and more experienced than all of these players, and should be schooling them. He had a losing record against all of them, and got totally owned by Monahan.

And yet he was over 50% last season during the real NHL. Much ado about nothing.

 

[Psychoil]

Good game(s) Edmonton.

Both games were kind of boring since both teams put their best squads on home ice. That's one thing I don't like about preseason, but it's good to see a split squad since lot of players competing for a spot on the roster.

Some things about the game at Edmonton: I think the best players that played that game were Schultz and RNH. When they were showing the replay of RNH goal, I could tell that RNH put on 10 lbs of muscle.

Best players on Edmonton: RNH and Schultz
Best players in Calgary: Glencross and Byron

Yeah for a flames fan that's a good assessment lol. Yeah Byron actually really impressed me for the flames, seems like he's very fast.

Would of liked to see mono and Johnny hockey up here, but we will soon enough.

 

[Red Deer Rebel]

I didnt watch the game, but I read Willis report that he did on the game, his take on Arco, well its totally different than those on hear that have a agenda to prove on Arco. Just saying

The real contradiction lies in Willis' observations of Yakupov, and the posts yourself, guymez, and YoungGuns are constantly making.

In fact, Willis basically concludes that Yakupov carried his line, and the whole team offensively last night. I don't know how you missed it, since the headline of his article says this: "Nail Yakupov the Edmonton Oilers’ best player in 1-0 loss to Calgary Flames"

... and the first 2 paragraphs:

It was a slow night in the Saddledome, so slow that the guy tracking the stats seemed to doze off for large chunks of the contest. Edmonton was out-shot badly early (not as badly as the stats say, but badly enough) and then both sides settled in for a relatively low-event contest that ended in a 1-0 win for the home team.

Nail Yakupov was an exception to the boredom, generating excitement pretty much every time he touched the puck, but for the most part this wasn’t a terribly exciting affair on either side.

Doesn't sound like a player that should be shipped to the AHL, although that was the position you had last year.

So, he was the best player on the ice. Your own source says as much. Why haven't you and the rest of the people with "an agenda to prove" on Yakupov acknowledged this?

 

[Aerchon]

It's funny that you mention the gulf between reality and the anti-Arco movement but what i see is reality being dismissed from the Arco supporter crowd (btw, i don't know why somebody who criticizes a player is anti-said player, i think we all want him to succeed).

Arco scoring well at the AHL level isn't exactly a revelation so not sure why that's being used as some huge positive.
By and large, he's a near 1 ppg AHL player but if you want to use small sample sizes, how about Gagner scoring 28 points in 28 games to start 2 seasons ago IN THE NHL. That's way more impressive than anything Arco has done anywhere in his career and that sample size is twice as long as the Arco one IN THE AHL.

You talk about all these skills that Arco exhibitted as if he was some unstoppable buzzsaw in his NHL stint.
What i saw was a player who was passable defensively (an upgrade on Gagner i suppose but not much), threw some hits that qualified as "love taps" for the most part and had some lucky assists because of some fortunate bounces, very few of which were largely driven by Arco himself. He also has no finish whatsoever at the NHL level.

He's a guy who should be a callup in case of injury, not the lead dog for one of the middle center spots. I was glad when they dealt Gagner because i thought that MacT had a solid contingency plan in place (my mistake for believing in MacT) and i was glad that they re-signed Arco because i thought that he would be a decent short term callup in case of injury. Little did i know that he would be competing with rookies for the #2 and #3C spots and basically be handed a full time spot. Even the most avid Arco fan can't possibly be comfortable with the prospect of him being a full time starter this season.

I by no means think Arco is a world beater. I do think his 2 way game is a significant improvement over gagners one way game. I also think his AHL scoring could translate to
the NHL much more than we have seen so far.

We will have to wait and see how he does

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Could be. I know my family is fighting a really bad cold/virus at the moment. We've had some drastic changes in temperature here in Edmonton for the last 2 weeks, and school/cold season is in full force.

I'm clear across the pacific but my whole family got hit with a piece of **** cold virus not all that long ago as well. Not saying that it's fact, just that it's a possibility that we may not know about.

You misinterpreted my post Bryan.

I've watched Arco plenty as well and particularly in the lockout year of course. But what I meant to signal out, and stated it, is that Arco hasn't looked good presently. At a time where it is monumentally important for him to look good presently. Wasn't suggesting I know the player better than you. I was suggesting I've seen the players right now PRESENT play and you haven't. I've keyed on him in the scrimmage and the game. Easy to do that because I've also wanted to key on Yak and Purcell. Its been the line of interest. The biggest question. I purposefully watched the Calgary game as I had more question marks I wanted filled from that game. Seeing the above mentioned players plus , Fayne, Nikitin, and how they look here. I already know how Hall, RNH, Draisaitl, etc will look.

It sucks if something is wrong with Arco (I think its just his focus and I believe he's rattled with the pressure, just my take.)

Fair enough, it would be best for the team if he could give us another viable option at C so that we at least have an honest competition for a spot between him and Lander. IMO players have unflattering camps all the time. Lander was a prime example of that last year for example. Ultimately if he wants an NHL spot he is going to have to do enough to beat out the competition. I just wouldn't crucify the guy after a scrimmage and a split squad game.

BBO, I think you're still fighting yesterday's battles.

Eakins has said that "we have 2 NHL Centers" (I'm sure everyone agrees the 2 being referred to are RNH and Gordon). So, this tells the players there are 2 open spots, and this training camp is the competition which will determine who fills those spots.

So far, Arcobello has been outplayed by (i) Draisaitl, (ii) Yakimov, (iii) Lander, and possibly (iv) Acton.

So, why is he being handed a spot? Personally, I believe a center like Yakimov, at 6'5", 232 lbs, is a far better fit on this team. Wasn't Yakimov over 60% on faceoffs last night? Didn't Yakimov give a far better showing in Penticton than any of our other centers in recent memory, with the possible exception of RNH?

I'd like to see a line of Joensuu - Yakimov - Yakupov. Joensuu and Yakupov played about 3 games together last year and were pretty good. According to the advanced stats, they had a Corsi For % of 60%, which is outstanding for that hockey team.

Why don't we give that line a shot? That would be a real competition, rather than simply handing Arco a spot when he has been outplayed by every man and his dog on this roster.

I get your points and I agree that if he completely sucks while the others are very good he may not get the NHL shot that he desires. That said it's very early in the preseason and there's a lot of hockey to be played yet.

As for Joensuu-Yak-Yak, unless Joensuu is ready to play a full season like he was playing in the last preseason I have no desire to see that line tried as a unit. I also know that we need to get Yakupov going and if Arco can't do that then we need someone that can. If Yakimov is ready I'd have no issues turfing Arco and keeping Lander as a PB guy. I've never felt that Arco is a long term fit here and I have been one of the biggest advocates of getting more size down the middle. I just think that Arco can be a short term solution if need be.

 

[OnTheBrink]

Can't find a archive that works of the @edm game anyone help??????????????

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

I by no means think Arco is a world beater. I do think his 2 way game is a significant improvement over gagners one way game. I also think his AHL scoring could translate to
the NHL much more than we have seen so far.

We will have to wait and see how he does

I don't have a problem with arco going off what he showed last year. Can't say that I followed him much last night but he definitely deserves a few more games. He may be good enough to be a stop gap third line center but I wouldn't be upset if they brought in an upgrade right away.

Does anyone know what kind of match up that line was facing last night? I assume they were getting a checking line and the Gio-Brodie pairing which was a damn good pairing last year. They won't be getting that match up as a third line this year. Could be a good part of the reason they were ineffective.

 

[Da McBomb]

Can't find a archive that works of the @edm game anyone help??????????????

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers · 8m Want to watch last night's split-squad #Oilers games? Here's a page with both archives & viewing instructions > http://oilers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=100475

 

[Pressure]

Oh please, hes a first overall pick, go through the list of 1st overall picks in the 3rd season and tell me if it wasnt show me time for them?

It's not his fault he was picked first overall. Now you're narrowing down the sample size to make a point. I'll throw out one name, Joe Thornton 48 points in 136 games. How about first round picks? or even top 10. The list is massive if you're going to give me a "make it or break it" criteria at the age of 20.

You're also saying third season like it's legit. He's still barely over 100 games and the bulk of those games were with Eakins that paired him with 2 checkers from game 1.

 

[OnTheBrink]

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers · 8m Want to watch last night's split-squad #Oilers games? Here's a page with both archives & viewing instructions > http://oilers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=100475

Thats where I watched the game in Calgary, but the one in Edmonton won't load for me, is it working for anyone else? or anyone know of where else a guy could watch it. Thanks for answering though.

 

[Pressure]

Draisaitl Pouliot Perron

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Dry Pooper line.

I like this. Now call it in to 1260 or Oilers Now and get it trademarked.

 

[CupofOil]

I by no means think Arco is a world beater. I do think his 2 way game is a significant improvement over gagners one way game. I also think his AHL scoring could translate to
the NHL much more than we have seen so far.

We will have to wait and see how he does

I certainly hope so because the Oilers are going to need it from him and just to clarify again, i'm rooting for him to do well. I love a good underdog story but i just don't see this one having a happy ending.

 

[Mcnofool6110]

I'm personally a fan of the Maginot Line.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Draisaitl Pouliot Perron

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Dry Pooper line.

and if it has a rough night we can call it the.....Daisaitl Perron Pouliot Line

 

[McPuritania]

and if it has a rough night we can call it the.....Daisaitl Perron Pouliot Line

 

[Replacement*]

I didnt watch the game, but I read Willis report that he did on the game, his take on Arco, well its totally different than those on hear that have a agenda to prove on Arco. Just saying

Except Willis comment is vastly different than ANYBODY here that watched the game in Calgary.

Several posters here, even Arco fans are saying Arco had a poor game. Willis is painting a picture of Arco playing a good game which is nobody elses take.

I should read what he has to say about Purcells effort, lol. Purcell was putrid and as many indicated looked entirely disinterested.

 

[Replacement*]

Not to be amongst the "step away from the ledge" type condescending comments, I do hate it when I come to GDT/PGT to vent for cathatic purposes and being told to calm the **** down.

But how about a few more games and data samples before we write certain players off? Arcobello has clearly had a lackluster start, but it's not like we have the luxury of cutting centers from our lineup. Last I checked, the center depth of this team is not exactly stellar. We have a #1C and a #3/4C. Everything else is up in the air, I personally wouldn't cut Arco, Draisaitl, Lander, Yakimov, Khaira, Acton etc. until I've seen their pre-season effort in its entirety.

This is well expressed and due to this.

Heres the rundown of the whole summer in respect of Center position

Oilers trade a top two center.

HF Reaction, "calm down, MacT isn't finished, he'll replace him, don't get your knickers twisted"

Then July, MacT still hasn't replaced Center "Calm down, its only July, grab a pill"

followed by August, now September, and coming here and "Calm down, its only 4th day, its only first game...."
but with this entirely dismissing what has been a tiresome ride to get to this point of NHL topsix expectation from a player as unlikely as Arcobello.

Thank god we have Draisaitl playing great, Yakimov doing well, and Lander looking better. So that's positive, but doesn't remove that one of the worst teams in the league decided to go into TC with only two established NHL centers. Even by the headcoaches acknowledgement. Conversely anybody should look to Calgary to see how many valid NHL Centers they have in their org. Its depressing actually to look at that.

its been a frustrating road to get to this point, the frustration with this org is real.

Thank the heavens we had yet another top pick and could draft Draisaitl. What a mess this would be without it.

 

[Eirhead*]

This is well expressed and due to this.

Heres the rundown of the whole summer in respect of Center position

Oilers trade a top two center.

HF Reaction, "calm down, MacT isn't finished, he'll replace him, don't get your knickers twisted"

Then July, MacT still hasn't replaced Center "Calm down, its only July, grab a pill"

followed by August, now September, and coming here and "Calm down, its only 4th day, its only first game...."
but with this entirely dismissing what has been a tiresome ride to get to this point of NHL topsix expectation from a player as unlikely as Arcobello.

Thank god we have Draisaitl playing great, Yakimov doing well, and Lander looking better. So that's positive, but doesn't remove that one of the worst teams in the league decided to go into TC with two established NHL centers. Even by the headcoaches acknowledgement.

its been a frustrating road to get to this point, the frustration with this org is real.

 

[GMofOilers]

The real contradiction lies in Willis' observations of Yakupov, and the posts yourself, guymez, and YoungGuns are constantly making.

In fact, Willis basically concludes that Yakupov carried his line, and the whole team offensively last night. I don't know how you missed it, since the headline of his article says this: "Nail Yakupov the Edmonton Oilers’ best player in 1-0 loss to Calgary Flames"

... and the first 2 paragraphs:


Doesn't sound like a player that should be shipped to the AHL, although that was the position you had last year.

So, he was the best player on the ice. Your own source says as much. Why haven't you and the rest of the people with "an agenda to prove" on Yakupov acknowledged this?

Im ok with Yak being the best player on the ice, he should of been last night.

Why I posted the Willis link is he has a different take on Arco

Edit
Not sure why you fired me back a reply on Yakupov? What I said last year was no relevation on this years training camp. What I have said on Yak this year is its show time, no excuses.

Go ahead and twist this post in a different direction to, but I wont be replying.