Confirmed with Link: Oilers sign Mikko Koskinen

[McDNicks17]

Lehner and Mrazek both signed for 1.5M. Of course they're both coming off down years, but they've also both proven they can play at a high level in this league. There would have been a risk with either of them, but not necessarily anymore so than an unproven KHL goalie. Plus they were both a million cheaper.

I'd assume they had no interest in teams where they didn't have a reasonable chance at starting or at least splitting games.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Don't know when 2.5 million became a massive contract. It is probably a similar amount that he was getting paid in the khl.

Who gives a crap what he was getting paid in KHL? Let him rust there. Or let some other club have to pay him. The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending. Just the season prior Talbot was one of the best goalies in the league knocking it out of the park. Talbot will return to better form and basically all we would need is somebody else getting 15-20 starts. If that. We know McLellan likes to ride the #1's a lot and will again with a rested Talbot.

 

[McNuge]

Who gives a crap what he was getting paid in KHL? Let him rust there. Or let some other club have to pay him. The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending. Just the season prior Talbot was one of the best goalies in the league knocking it out of the park. Talbot will return to better form and basically all we would need is somebody else getting 15-20 starts. If that. We know McLellan likes to ride the #1's a lot and will again with a rested Talbot.

Talbot was one of the biggest disappointments last year and absolutely contributed to us missing the playoffs. He put the team behind in the first 5 minutes in wayyyyyyyy too many games last year. For a team that was struggling with confidence from the get go you need the goalie to make those saves early, which he did not do at all.

I still really like Talbot and think he is much better than last year would suggest. Koskinen should push Talbot more than LB or Montoya did last year.

 

[nexttothemoon]

I do agree that this goalie signing has made the signing of Nurse more difficult... but the blame for that is on the other 20 signed contracts as well... not just the Koskinen signing.

In a vacuum, that signing isn't awful... one of the best established KHL goalies at $2.5 million isn't ridiculous money. If he turns into a decent NHL backup and can play 25-30 solid games in relief of Talbot, that's money well spent if it means helping make a push for a playoff spot. If he turns into a 1B goalie... even better obviously.

If he is a dud... well obviously that's "bad"... but it certainly won't be the first $2.5 million gamble that a team made and it backfired. There was a lot more than $2.5 million in dead cap space last season on the Oilers as well:

Sekera
Klefbom
Lucic
Kassian
Jokinen
Letestu

About $20 million there alone in underperforming contracts from last season.

The signing is certainly a gamble because no one really knows how Koskinen will do and an argument could be made that they could have easily gone with a cheaper option but I didn't see many of the other UFA signings would have been less risky as well.

 

[bucks_oil]

Who gives a crap what he was getting paid in KHL? Let him rust there. Or let some other club have to pay him. The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending. Just the season prior Talbot was one of the best goalies in the league knocking it out of the park. Talbot will return to better form and basically all we would need is somebody else getting 15-20 starts. If that. We know McLellan likes to ride the #1's a lot and will again with a rested Talbot.

I must disagree here. Goaltending was definitely an issue last year. The fact that we didn't support Talbot last year was poor management and if we did it again it would be unforgivable.

You are correct that Talbot was required to stand on his head in 2016/17... knowing if he took a night off (figuratively or literally not starting)... then his team was guaranteed to lose. You can't be the sole reason to cover critical deficiencies forever. You need those issues to be corrected, and you need support.

The only teams that find success in running a goalie 70 games a year are the ones that have a solid foundation and don't need a vezina quality start every night... i.e., teams that sometimes have their goalie's back and not always the other way around. We won't be that team until our D-core has an average age > 26. That ain't happening for while.

 

[bucks_oil]

Talbot was one of the biggest disappointments last year and absolutely contributed to us missing the playoffs. He put the team behind in the first 5 minutes in wayyyyyyyy too many games last year. For a team that was struggling with confidence from the get go you need the goalie to make those saves early, which he did not do at all.

I still really like Talbot and think he is much better than last year would suggest. Koskinen should push Talbot more than LB or Montoya did last year.

It's a two way street and a team sport. Talbot was struggling early, no doubt, but his team needed to stop making crushing giveaways and bad reads repeatedly in the first 5 minutes of games as well. You can't just expect a struggling goalie to be the mental bedrock of a fragile team nightly... they could support him as well by not making those mistakes so casually and/or not folding the tent when they happen. That'd be what a GOOD TEAM would do.

I just reject the idea that a single guy needs to support the struggling confidence of many, rather than the reverse... the many support the few that are struggling with confidence. What you are suggesting is the exact source of eroding team dynamics. Goalies have to deal with that on bad teams all the time and can only do it for so long (see Dubnyk, Luongo, Price, etc)

 

[Drivesaitl]

Talbot was one of the biggest disappointments last year and absolutely contributed to us missing the playoffs. He put the team behind in the first 5 minutes in wayyyyyyyy too many games last year. For a team that was struggling with confidence from the get go you need the goalie to make those saves early, which he did not do at all.

I still really like Talbot and think he is much better than last year would suggest. Koskinen should push Talbot more than LB or Montoya did last year.

Talbot is human. He took a look at an Oilers team scoring multiples of 0,1, 2 goal run support and it impacted him. The real issue last season was that a team with McD, Drai, Nuge as Centers wasn't scoring. That the team lacked any scoring winger depth that was getting it done. Its my take that the lack of scoring impacted first. The goaltending struggles were a response to that. Even look at the Oilers first game won only because McD scores ALL 3 goals in a 3-0 Win against Calgary in a game in which you would have figured his life was at stake. Nobody else scored. Look at the goal totals early in season. Oilers not scoring was central to their plight. The nervousness of knowing you can't let in any goal and win is a response to that.

Run support is important for pitchers, for goalies. We should be able to have some.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I must disagree here. Goaltending was definitely an issue last year. The fact that we didn't support Talbot last year was poor management and if we did it again it would be unforgivable.

You are correct that Talbot was required to stand on his head in 2016/17... knowing if he took a night off (figuratively or literally not starting)... then his team was guaranteed to lose. You can't be the sole reason to cover critical deficiencies forever. You need those issues to be corrected, and you need support.

The only teams that find success in running a goalie 70 games a year are the ones that have a solid foundation and don't need a vezina quality start every night... i.e., teams that sometimes have their goalie's back and not always the other way around. We won't be that team until our D-core has an average age > 26. That ain't happening for while.

I don't know that having two goalies that can play really alters much when you have a headcoach with a noted and stated tendency to run with one at any particular time. This is who our coach is. Even in the Nillson year he exhibited this tendency. He wasn't resting either goalie as much as playing each in strings whichever he felt was the better option at the time. So that either Talbot or Nilsson was holding the weight at any given time. Ironically there were times with Nilsson here where Talbot was being overplayed as the club completely lost faith in Nillson.

My view on the value of having a 2.5M backup is not had in isolation. I do not have faith that goaltending will be responsibly utilized regardless of its performance, and due to coaching decisions.

 

[MessierII]

Talbot is human. He took a look at an Oilers team scoring multiples of 0,1, 2 goal run support and it impacted him. The real issue last season was that a team with McD, Drai, Nuge as Centers wasn't scoring. That the team lacked any scoring winger depth that was getting it done.

This just statistically isn’t true. Goals against was a much bigger issue last year then goals for. Our offensive production at even strength was fine. We were buried by special teams and terrible defence/goaltending.

 

[McNuge]

Yes I agree that Talbot was not always 100% at fault. But the poster claimed that goal tending was not a problem, which is not true. How many games were we behind 5 minutes in due to a very poor goal?

 

[Drivesaitl]

This just statistically isn’t true. Goals against was a much bigger issue last year then goals for. Our offensive production at even strength was fine. We were buried by special teams and terrible defence/goaltending.

No, this is inaccurate. Our GF improved as the season went on. Our goal totals normalized as the season progressed. Our goal totals in defining months of the season, early, were low. We were not scoring enough goals in most of the games. Indeed the vast majority of McD pts occurred in the "season is over" meaningless segment.

We fell to our fate of missing the playoffs on the basis of not scoring enough goals in the early months of the season.

In our first 20 game segment the Oilers scored 2 or less regulation time goals a dozen times. The Oilers were buried in the standings by that point. Perhaps confusing how much the Oilers had trouble scoring in most of the games they had outlier bursts of 8, 6, and 5 goals during the segment but very little in the other games. Actually 25 other regulation time goals in the other 17GP (among first 20)

So that it was hot or cold scoring. Overwhelmingly cold.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes I agree that Talbot was not always 100% at fault. But the poster claimed that goal tending was not a problem, which is not true. How many games were we behind 5 minutes in due to a very poor goal?

Actually I didn't state this. if this is in reference to what I wrote.

In anycase I framed my argument clearly in my first post. Talbot was a Vezina calibre of goaltender in 16-17. So that a team continuing to have a goalie of this quality in the lineup is probably going to be OK as far as goaltending in that context. So that I don't infer that Talbot dropped off the cliff. He's still here and I'm confident he'll still be good.

 

[McNuge]

Actually I didn't state this. if this is in reference to what I wrote.

In anycase I framed my argument clearly in my first post. Talbot was a Vezina calibre of goaltender in 16-17. So that a team continuing to have a goalie of this quality in the lineup is probably going to be OK as far as goaltending in that context. So that I don't infer that Talbot dropped off the cliff. He's still here and I'm confident he'll still be good.

You said "The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending." which I don't agree with. Talbot was certainly part of the blame, as was most of the team. Am I pinning this on him 100%? Absolutely not, as I previously stated (and agree with you on) he is a great goalie and I am happy to have him, but he sure as hell wasn't Vezina worthy last year. He took the team out of too many games within the first 5 minutes.

 

[bucks_oil]

I don't know that having two goalies that can play really alters much when you have a headcoach with a noted and stated tendency to run with one at any particular time. This is who our coach is. Even in the Nillson year he exhibited this tendency. He wasn't resting either goalie as much as playing each in strings whichever he felt was the better option at the time. So that either Talbot or Nilsson was holding the weight at any given time. Ironically there were times with Nilsson here where Talbot was being overplayed as the club completely lost faith in Nillson.

My view on the value of having a 2.5M backup is not had in isolation. I do not have faith that goaltending will be responsibly utilized regardless of its performance, and due to coaching decisions.

That's a separate argument. The GM's role is to ensure that the option exists to provide Talbot some support. Whether McClellan decides to use it (or HOW to use it) doesn't mean that you don't give him the tools.

You've correctly pointed out run support... I'm arguing that having a decent back up (both for competitive & rest/support reasons) is also critical to morale, both Talbot's and the teams'. It's a long damn season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You said "The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending." which I don't agree with. Talbot was certainly part of the blame, as was most of the team. Am I pinning this on him 100%? Absolutely not, as I previously stated (and agree with you on) he is a great goalie and I am happy to have him, but he sure as hell wasn't Vezina worthy last year. He took the team out of too many games within the first 5 minutes.

The Oilers fate was established through a lack of scoring early in the season. The Oilers buried themselves due to far too frequent instances of 0.1. 2 goal results. That can't, or shouldn't happen to a team that has 3 Allstar Centers.

The Oilers got buried and dropped in standings due to not scoring in games. Due to having trouble scoring in the vast majority of games. Very few W's occur in the NHL where GF is 2 or less.

When I stated the Oilers didn't lack goaltending I mean because Talbot is in the lineup and he will continue to be in the lineup. Talbot gets a mulligan from me for sure because I've seen what he can do. I don't put the finger on him. There were a lot of clear subperformances from players last season. Talbot happens to occupy a position that gets easiest blame. Which is unfair in relation to having a complete view on where things fell apart last season. Its always easy to point to goaltending.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's a separate argument. The GM's role is to ensure that the option exists to provide Talbot some support. Whether McClellan decides to use it (or HOW to use it) doesn't mean that you don't give him the tools.

You've correctly pointed out run support... I'm arguing that having a decent back up (both for competitive & rest/support reasons) is also critical to morale, both Talbot's and the teams'. It's a long damn season.

Its not really a separate argument because org success is based on cooperation, concerted plan, understanding the plan etc. If a disconnect exists between Management (asset accrual) vs Coaching (asset usage) then that's an org problem and especially in a capped league where cap usage is restricted and finite.

Agreed that Talbot SHOULD get 15-20 games off. Even if the Oilers are not .500 in those games the season is still made or lost in the Talbot segment of games. Just because that represents 75-85% of the games..

 

[bucks_oil]

Its not really a separate argument because org success is based on cooperation, concerted plan, understanding the plan etc. If a disconnect exists between Management (asset accrual) vs Coaching (asset usage) then that's an org problem and especially in a capped league where cap usage is restricted and finite.

Agreed that Talbot SHOULD get 15-20 games off. Even if the Oilers are not .500 in those games the season is still made or lost in the Talbot segment of games. Just because that represents 75-85% of the games..

This first paragraph is fair... but we don't know the reason why McLellan wasn't using the backup. I think there is a strong case to be made that he didn't have any confidence in the backup.

Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. $2.5M to reinforce a very critical weakness in our team, is money well spent IMO. I was screaming for a new backup last year... to me it was one of the critical errors in thinking going into the season. (and it could have been even worse if Talbot was injured)

Whether Koskinen is going to cut it is a separate issue. I have no choice but to trust our pro scouts until proven otherwise.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This first paragraph is fair... but we don't know the reason why McLellan wasn't using the backup. I think there is a strong case to be made that he didn't have any confidence in the backup.

Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. $2.5M to reinforce a very critical weakness in our team, is money well spent IMO. I was screaming for a new backup last year... to me it was one of the critical errors in thinking going into the season. (and it could have been even worse if Talbot was injured)

Whether Koskinen is going to cut it is a separate issue. I have no choice but to trust our pro scouts until proven otherwise.

WE don't have to guess. McLellan has self acknowledged that he is a starting goalie coach and is not good at utilizing backups. He has acknowledged his ongoing preference to run with one. Its what he's stated. He did that even in SJ.

I even cited the 15-16 season where McLellan at any given time was inured to EITHER of Talbot or Nillson but rarely to both interchangeably at any given time. So that Mclellan played either for long stretches instead of alternating somewhat and having rested goalies. So that I think deferring the reason McLellan fails to effectively utilize goalies to confidence is false.

Not only does McLellan over run with goalies he tends to do that too much with players. A constant frustration in SJ with his body of work was his go to guns in SJ getting too much work in regular season and having little left in playoffs. It was one of the very first things that Deboers addressed, making sure his go to players were as rested and spared as possible. It immediately served playoff dividends in Deboers first season there.

 

[McNuge]

The Oilers fate was established through a lack of scoring early in the season. The Oilers buried themselves due to far too frequent instances of 0.1. 2 goal results. That can't, or shouldn't happen to a team that has 3 Allstar Centers.

The Oilers got buried and dropped in standings due to not scoring in games. Due to having trouble scoring in the vast majority of games. Very few W's occur in the NHL where GF is 2 or less.

When I stated the Oilers didn't lack goaltending I mean because Talbot is in the lineup and he will continue to be in the lineup. Talbot gets a mulligan from me for sure because I've seen what he can do. I don't put the finger on him. There were a lot of clear subperformances from players last season. Talbot happens to occupy a position that gets easiest blame. Which is unfair in relation to having a complete view on where things fell apart last season. Its always easy to point to goaltending.

This is not Carey Price we are talking about here. Talbot has had one very good season as a goalie in the NHL. Other than that, he's been a back up (albeit to one of the best goalies in the league) and a decent starter for us. IMO he was actually better in his first season here than last year.

You can't expect a team to win when they are down almost every game trying to get a goal just to make even again.

Yes the offense had more to give (much more) but the biggest problem was keeping goals out.

2016-2017 we scored 247 gave up 212 for a +35 difference

2017-2018 we scored 234 gave up 263 for a -29 difference

So we only scored 13 goals less than the year before, but we gave up 51 more goals. THAT is the biggest difference.

A 64 goal swing in differential from one year to the next is horrendous.

 

[Supermassive]

You said "The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending." which I don't agree with. Talbot was certainly part of the blame, as was most of the team. Am I pinning this on him 100%? Absolutely not, as I previously stated (and agree with you on) he is a great goalie and I am happy to have him, but he sure as hell wasn't Vezina worthy last year. He took the team out of too many games within the first 5 minutes.

He wasn't great, you're right. But I'd even give him a little less blame.

Most times it was an undefended shot from a high-percentage scoring area that beat him. For that, I blame an undermanned and yet still underachieving defense corps, and green forwards too. Once enough of those go in, even good goalies get the yips, lose their confidence.

And we were so bad, that even if Talbot stops the first one or two, the good teams will keep coming at us until they score. We weren't even remotely competitive on a lot of nights. The other team just sits on their lead, and it's up to Connor to dent their defensive wall.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Who gives a crap what he was getting paid in KHL? Let him rust there. Or let some other club have to pay him. The Oilers didn't miss the playoffs last season for a lack of goaltending. Just the season prior Talbot was one of the best goalies in the league knocking it out of the park. Talbot will return to better form and basically all we would need is somebody else getting 15-20 starts. If that. We know McLellan likes to ride the #1's a lot and will again with a rested Talbot.

It was a major contributing factor. Talbot played like crap.

 

[McNuge]

He wasn't great, you're right. But I'd even give him a little less blame.

Most times it was an undefended shot from a high-percentage scoring area that beat him. For that, I blame an undermanned and yet still underachieving defense corps, and green forwards too. Once enough of those go in, even good goalies get the yips, lose their confidence.

And we were so bad, that even if Talbot stops the first one or two, the good teams will keep coming at us until they score. We weren't even remotely competitive on a lot of nights. The other team just sits on their lead, and it's up to Connor to dent their defensive wall.

Oh there was more than a few really bad goals he let in on the first shot or 2. The year before there were sure goals that he would knock out of the air like they were nothing. The team defense wasn't great, but was it that bad that it contributed to a 60+ goal differential from one year to the next?

Talbot needs to come in mentally strong this year because he looked like a different goalie last year. Even in 2015-2016 he was much better than last year.

I do hope/ expect him to be better this year. Mainly because I think the team will be very hungry from the get go.

 

[nabob]

Would help if there was any goalie signed after this year. Goaltending is a huge question mark for this team. If this guy fails then fine whatever but if Talbot fails too the Oilers are up a creek.

Also nice to step into a thread and have nearly an entire page dedicated to one poster. I'd love to get that kind of off topic treatment.

That’s what every thread this year about Strome has been

 

[belair]

Lehner and Mrazek both signed for 1.5M. Of course they're both coming off down years, but they've also both proven they can play at a high level in this league. There would have been a risk with either of them, but not necessarily anymore so than an unproven KHL goalie. Plus they were both a million cheaper.

Both went to teams where they were essentially shoe-ins for starters gigs. Cam Talbot played 67 games last year.

 

[PeakMcOil]

Canada vs Finland from 2016 on ESPN Classic right now. Koskinen in goal.