Confirmed with Link: Oilers sign Mikko Koskinen

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I also don't agree that back up goalie isn't an important position.

A backup goalie likely plays 25-30 games (at least good ones that allow the starter not to have to burn themselves out)... so that's say 30 games x 60 minutes =1800 minutes. That's the equivalent of an average of 22 minutes a game over a full 82 game season... same as a very good forward or top 4 dman will get.

Also, if you don't have a decent backup that's extra pressure on the starter to have to preform BIG in every game so your team has a decent shot at winning enough for a shot at the playoffs. There's very little margin for error when your backup is ****... your starter lets in a few softies and a few losses pile up and your season is over by Thanksgiving as we've obviously all seen before.

I'm not saying Koskinen is "the one" to fix the backup issue, but getting a decent backup is definitely a huge issue... not small... and I think is right up there with getting another scoring winger for McDavid and an offensive dman for the PP.

One issue "may" be addressed now... it better be... so Chia can move on to adding that sniper winger and that "mythical" offensive puck moving PP dman we all want him to acquire.

Except it is a hugely important position. Backup Matt Murray carried Pittsburgh to a cup a few years ago and stole the role of starter. Many backup goalies have also played huge roles in their teams making the playoffs this year (Grubauer, Kinkaid etc). I don't mind the team adding Koskinen, but to put all the eggs into the basket of an unproven player is an unwise move. Seeing Colorado pick up Francouz for 750k, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Koskinen at 2.5mil is a million or so overpaid, and we could've used that extra million or so to pick up a solid penalty killer or something.

But I'm sure teams are just itching to take Sekera and/or Lucic off our hands...

1 year is fine, but come on Chiarelli, you can't get his cap hit down? This isn't 2017.

You know he can't. We're talking about the imbecile who decided 4x4+NMC for Russell and 7x6+NMC for Lucic were fine.

 

[McDNicks17]

Francois is six foot nothing , teams seem to be avoiding smaller goalies nowadays .

He's actually listed at 182cm on the KHL site, so just under 5'10''.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Another post on the need to look at the source of Koskinens stats, i.e. the KHL.

As oft stated this is a pretty weak watered down league. Basically a handful of capable clubs and maybe a few powerhouses. With SKA being the elite one. Some quick glances that should tell posters that there is a lot of flotsam in this league is goal differential. Ask yourself how its even possible for a club to have a +130 goal differential in a 56 GP season. Corrected to NHL season this would be flirting with a +200 goal differential.

Next, SKA is a loaded club by KHL standards. Around only 30 players in the KHL exceeded 1M bucks salary. 14/30 of them play for SKA. Its hard to get numbers but the SKA salary cap is from different sources said to be 6-10 times as much of most teams depending on source. Weighted obviously as well with the two biggest names, Kovalchuk and Datsyuk making a combined 10M. Keeping in mind this is huge pay by KHL standards.

So that any goalie on SKA is playing behind a power house club that just rolls over most opponents in regular season.

Heres a list of top paid KHL players if it formats well (sorry source was in Russian so best I could do is copy paste this from reddit. ) See how many play for SKA allstar team... Should also note that 10/18 highest paid KHL players play for SKA. This is not a balanced league at all. SKA gives up 1.something goals/game no matter who is in net.

1. Ilya Kovalchuk SKA 5 500 000 dollars / 330 million. Rubles
2. Pavel Datsyuk SKA 4 500 000 dollars / 270 million. Rubles
3. Vyacheslav Voinov SKA 4 500 000 dollars / 270 million. Rubles
4. Vladimir Sobotka Vanguard 3 000 000 dollars / 180 million. Rubles
5. Vasily Koshechkin Metallurg Mg 2.419 million dollars / 145 million. Rubles
6. Sergey Mozyakin Metallurg Mg 2.177 million dollars / 130 million. Rubles
7. Vadim Shipachev SKA 2 000 000 dollars / 120 million. Rubles
8. Mikhail Varnakov Ak Bars 1 700 000 dollars / 102 million. Rubles
9. Anton Belov SKA 1 500 000 dollars / 90 million. Rubles
10. Danis Zaripov Metallurg Mg 1 500 000 dollars / 90 million. Rubles
11. Andrei Zubarev SKA 1 500 000/90 mln. Rubles
12. Alexander Salak Siberia 1.5 million dollars / 90 million. Rubles
13. Alexander Svitov Ak Bars 1 500 000 dollars / 90 million. Rubles
14. Maxim Chudinov SKA 1 500 000 dollars / 90 million. Rubles
15. Egor Yakovlev SKA 1 500 000 dollars / 90 million. Rubles
16. Evgeny Dadonov SKA 1 400 000 dollars / 84 million. Rubles
17. Alexander Perezhogin Vanguard 1 400 000 dollars / 84 million. Rubles
18. Mikko Koskinen SKA 1 300 000 dollars / 78 million. Rubles
19. Stéphane Da Costa CSKA 1 300 000 dollars / 78 million. Rubles
20. Niklas Svedberg Salavat Yulaev 1 300 000 dollars / 78 million. Rubles
21. Ivan Telegin CSKA 1 300 000 dollars / 78 million. Rubles
22. Viktor Tikhonov SKA 1 300 000 dollars / 78 million. Rubles
23. Ilya Zubov Vanguard 1 250 000 dollars / 75 million. Rubles
24. Valery Nichushkin CSKA 1.21 million dollars / 73 million. Rubles
25. Torpedo Vladimir Galuzin 1 200 000 dollars / 72 million. Rubles
26. Sergey Plotnikov SKA 1 200 000 dollars / 72 million. Rubles
27. Andrei Popov Ak Bars 1 200 000 dollars / 72 million. Rubles
28. Alexander Khokhlachov SKA 1 200 000 dollars / 72mln. rubles
29. Igor Grigorenko Salavat Yulaev 1 100 000 dollars / 66mln. rubles
30. Nikolai Prokhorkin SKA 1 050 000 dollars / 63 million. rubles

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

HFOil: Where people are more concerned about being right or wrong than cheering for the team. It’s like they hope certain people and players fail or succeed just to be correct.

I don't think it is even a matter of being right or wrong, but I think a lot of people want something to gnash their teeth about. It sorta makes sense with the Oilers, since things have been bad for a long time, but even teams that are successful get jumped on by their fans the minute something doesn't go the team's way.

The reality is that the NHL is incredibly tough to make, and very few players sustain good production consistently. If you take the negative position about every transaction, you are going to be right way more than you are wrong. But, if one Koskinen works out (i.e. becomes an above average starter) out of ten tries, that is a huge success.

The reality is Talbot and Brassoit were both crap last year. I think Talbot will bounce back, but there are no guarantees. As long as Koskinen has more potential upside than the available crop of free agent goalies (would any of them be considered likely to progress into a starter's role?), then it is a good bet to make. Either he is starter quality, in which case the 2.5M is a great investment (far more important than having an extra 1.5M to spend on a winger), or he goes back to Europe. I think the chance that he finishes the season in the AHL weighing down our cap is basically nil.

Francouz is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Even if he becomes a superstar, that will be nice for the Avs, but has nothing to do with us. The only thing that matters is if Koskinen has a reasonable (which I would say is maybe 10%) chance of being something. No one here has any real way to know that, but hey if you take the negative position your chance of being right is at worst probably 90%, so why not?

 

[nightfighter]

I appreciate the video. It is better, in that it is ISO, than the 7min clip I linked last week. Still though I see a lot of problems here that I'll breakdown;

1) Few times is he handling the puck clean with his glove. He's more swatting it, blocking it, or just not catching it. Really weird. He's creating rebounds out of nothing. That's bad news in the NHL.

2) 2 times in the clip does he go out of his net to handle the puck. The rest of the time its like he's trapped in the cage. Can he handle the puck much?

3) Cross ice mobility is still an issue as I see it in that video. That he's large disguises some of that but quick passes across can burn him. This was also uncharacteristic video as not one moment involved him making his desperation lunges where he's on the ice a lot. Seen that 50 times in other videos. He seemed intent on this game to play clean. Almost like a video of film of him is being shot for scouts. hmmmm.

4) So much of his play is simply deflecting the puck wide. He'll use his pads to make deflection stops on fairly easy shots and yet the puck is loose in the corner and still at large rather than a more efficient style of eating pucks and getting his team a draw. This is more important in the WC where teams will body pound you in own zone until they score. He has to learn to freeze the puck more rather than keep it in play.

5) Hardly any good shots he faced in that clip and yet he was beaten 5 hole on a shot that somebody commented was a center ice shot and gave another bad rebound and got out of position where the puck just slid outside the post. He's intense and seems to try to do a lot to prepare but I really don't think he has much other than size to work with. Certainly not seeing a talented goalie here. I'm seeing a guy that's learned to do enough to excel at a far lower rung of hockey.

6) Possibly the most important point is this film was against Moscow Dynamo. A team that didn't even make the playoffs and that isn't remotely a competitive side for SKA.

Appreciate your POV for sure. I'd like to get more viewings on him in more contexts (different teams, different opponents) to get a better feel for how he competes overall. One thing lacking in this ISO video is we don't get a really good sense of the quality of the shots he is facing. But we make do with what we have.


I'm not too interested in the guy but since people are fixated on Francouz, here's a similar ISO video of him:



You can definitely tell his technique is much cleaner than Koskinen, but his lack of size pretty much necessitates this. He has to be 100% on point with his depth and angles otherwise he's getting beat. Some really good clean movement in his crease though. However, I look at the one goal scored in this video and that's why there's so much NHL concern for his size. He's caught peeking the wrong way trying to look over a screen, and the shot comes through on the other side. Francouz is simply not big enough to just block and cover net if he doesn't see the shot. We see these goal alot in the NHL obviously. Maybe he can work on another way of battling through screens, wether it's going low or around, but when he brings himself "tall" he narrows his coverage by a ton.

 

[Ruudukkopupuset]

Contracts have the player side of the deal also to take in mind which often gets conveniently forgotten. 2,5 million is the market price of getting someone with Koskinen's resume to come over which should explain you why he appers so exotic to you. The Oilers even carry very little risk compared to Koskinen who could do multiyear contract for more millions elsewhere but chose to come over for professional desires to play a role in the NHL which pretty much aligns with hopes of victory in the next campaign of Oilers.

I think it is a bit unfair for Francouz that all he was able to get from the NHL was an apprentice's position and pay behind the goaltending coach's (well at least he is working with best goaltending coach) long-time protege but I would say it tell more of the culture and fear of the NHL when someone who has shown talent elsewhere is put in the pariah class while already local goaltenders without experience of playing key roles are more often claimed as often up and coming.

In example the Blue Jackets have had promising, up and coming goaltender in Korpisalo as back-up and they have made the play-offs in both of his seasons despite Korpisalo being rather horrid and not worthy of his fame which was given for his one season feats in NHL regular season. Well Korpisalo had downswing after that even in the AHL, yet no in Finnish ice hockey federation had paid any thoughts to it and so he arrived as 'young NHL goaltender' to become Finland's number one goaltender in one of the recent World Championships. He was rather horrid again compared to Koskinen who I thought was better than Rinne, the Vezina canditate, keeping even Juuse Saros (who is rare Rask caliber talent) at bay. So name and fame matters very much in these decisions and it ain't exactly fair or even that logical when you add the human component into these deals and evalutions.

 

[fuswald]

Every backup = every goalie who hasn't proven he can regularly play in the NHL. Still question marks.

This is not entirely true. The best backups have the ability to sit for many games and be ready all the time. Starters need to be worked to be on their game.
Hired guns to speak. I think this is why many of the backups are older experienced players.

 

[Ruudukkopupuset]

Heres a list of top paid KHL players if it formats well (sorry source was in Russian so best I could do is copy paste this from reddit. ) See how many play for SKA allstar team... Should also note that 10/18 highest paid KHL players play for SKA. This is not a balanced league at all. SKA gives up 1.something goals/game no matter who is in net.

News flash! Every league in Eurasia has clubs like these as it is a completely free continent wide market where the wealthiest (or those with the most attraction) are able to attract the best talent. Hence you are suggesting that out of all the Eurasian clubs SKA St. Petersburg has the toughest inner competition as they have their choice of quality forwards, defencemen and goalies who could play big roles in most of the other teams instead of being the third liner, sixth defender or back-up goaltender for the wealthiest group.

Without understanding this nature of Eurasian leagues, comrade, you fail to see that Koskinen has been apex predator of this food chain where players are free for all for those who have money be signed. It reflects all the way to his NHL salary too.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Except it is a hugely important position. Backup Matt Murray carried Pittsburgh to a cup a few years ago and stole the role of starter. Many backup goalies have also played huge roles in their teams making the playoffs this year (Grubauer, Kinkaid etc). I don't mind the team adding Koskinen, but to put all the eggs into the basket of an unproven player is an unwise move. Seeing Colorado pick up Francouz for 750k, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Koskinen at 2.5mil is a million or so overpaid, and we could've used that extra million or so to pick up a solid penalty killer or something.

You know he can't. We're talking about the imbecile who decided 4x4+NMC for Russell and 7x6+NMC for Lucic were fine.

Well I DID say it was an important position so we actually agree... I guess you are saying it's HUGELY important which might be true as well... but I'd say no more so than a top 4 puck moving PP dman or a top sniper winger (which they also need).

The "eggs" are now in two baskets... Talbot's and Koskinen's. If either shit the bed they are in some deep trouble as the other will likely have to stand on his head to backstop a team that's got some major issues in other areas and needs at least one goalie playing very solid if they want any shot at playoffs. If they both shit the bed the season is obviously a write off yet again.

Their plan C are the backups in the AHL... Ellis/Brossoit(one of whom may not even be re-signed) and Montoya... so probably not a lot of help there if plan A/B fail. I have liked Ellis the few times I've watched him even though he had a down year last year.

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

He's actually listed at 182cm on the KHL site, so just under 5'10''.

I've seen him as anywhere from 5'10 to 6'1, so who knows, but he's definitely on the small end for an NHL starter.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Appreciate your POV for sure. I'd like to get more viewings on him in more contexts (different teams, different opponents) to get a better feel for how he competes overall. One thing lacking in this ISO video is we don't get a really good sense of the quality of the shots he is facing. But we make do with what we have.


I'm not too interested in the guy but since people are fixated on Francouz, here's a similar ISO video of him:



You can definitely tell his technique is much cleaner than Koskinen, but his lack of size pretty much necessitates this. He has to be 100% on point with his depth and angles otherwise he's getting beat. Some really good clean movement in his crease though. However, I look at the one goal scored in this video and that's why there's so much NHL concern for his size. He's caught peeking the wrong way trying to look over a screen, and the shot comes through on the other side. Francouz is simply not big enough to just block and cover net if he doesn't see the shot. We see these goal alot in the NHL obviously. Maybe he can work on another way of battling through screens, wether it's going low or around, but when he brings himself "tall" he narrows his coverage by a ton.

Thanks. For context the goal that got by Koskinen was from around center ice. Not a goal to give up and apparently the only 1 he gave up against a bad outgunned team. You can see that a lot of the stuff he's dealing in are just flips and half shot hopers from a Moscow Dynamo team that is frankly outgunned. SKA won the game 5-1, and outshot Dynamo 52-24 in the game.

ska st petersburg vs dynamo moscow - Google Search

The biggest challenge for Koskinen is not falling asleep.

As suspected from looking at a lot of the videos and youtube page this person does scouting videos of most if not all KHL goalies and also has other videos where he breaks it down. He appears to be a goalie coach or scout. He's pretty analytical about mechanics. Only the titles are in English so not sure all of what he is saying but he breaks down mechanics and movement in the videos. He must be a Dynamo fan as almost all the videos involve Dynamo as one of the clubs. Good find for you to get that video. Theres lots more, heh.

heres one of Koskinen against a better club and showing more of the play; ps spoiler, CKSA won 2-1

 

[Canovin]

Thanks. For context the goal that got by Koskinen was from around center ice. Not a goal to give up and apparently the only 1 he gave up against a bad outgunned team. You can see that a lot of the stuff he's dealing in are just flips and half shot hopers from a Moscow Dynamo team that is frankly outgunned. SKA won the game 5-1, and outshot Dynamo 52-24 in the game.

ska st petersburg vs dynamo moscow - Google Search

The biggest challenge for Koskinen is not falling asleep.

As suspected from looking at a lot of the videos and youtube page this person does scouting videos of most if not all KHL players and also has other videos where he breaks it down. He appears to be a goalie coach or scout. He's pretty analytical about mechanics. Only the titles are in English so not sure all of what he is saying but he breaks down mechanics and movement in the videos. He must be a Dynamo fan as almost all the videos involve Dynamo as one of the clubs. Good find for you to get that video. Theres lots more, heh.

heres one of Koskinen against a better club and showing more of the play; ps spoiler, CKSA won 2-1

You wrote him up like he was the next Gustavsson. I'm disappointed. His mechanics are nowhere near as bad lol

 

[nabob]

It's perfectly rational to criticize this signing. Don't know why some of you are biting the heads off of people who are criticizing it for valid reasons.

Also, it's not just the HFOil hivemind that is criticized by the signing, a lot of the media is perplexed by it too.

You mean the media likes to stir things up and try and create controversy to get website hits? That's crazy talk.

I have yet to see a valid reason, or better available backup suggested.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You wrote him up like he was the next Gustavsson. I'm disappointed. His mechanics are nowhere near as bad lol

I was going on the 7minute clip I found a week ago in which he was flopping around like a big fish. He's more clean in these but even in the one I posted you see more of his unorthodox style. One thing that's kind of funny is he sure takes a lot of abuse. 2 min mark he gets walloped in the head with a high stick. Seen players run right into him, run him through the net etc.

Whoever films these ISO's is a scout of some sort. The goalies seem more intent on bringing their A games in these. just saying.

 

[nabob]

Ok 1 year 9 months ago, better?

And I was on the "hating it wagon" still last year, I was just willing to stomach it because Larsson was playing well was all.

So you hate this signing based off of moves made 21 months ago.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Thanks. For context the goal that got by Koskinen was from around center ice. Not a goal to give up and apparently the only 1 he gave up against a bad outgunned team. You can see that a lot of the stuff he's dealing in are just flips and half shot hopers from a Moscow Dynamo team that is frankly outgunned. SKA won the game 5-1, and outshot Dynamo 52-24 in the game.

ska st petersburg vs dynamo moscow - Google Search

The biggest challenge for Koskinen is not falling asleep.

As suspected from looking at a lot of the videos and youtube page this person does scouting videos of most if not all KHL players and also has other videos where he breaks it down. He appears to be a goalie coach or scout. He's pretty analytical about mechanics. Only the titles are in English so not sure all of what he is saying but he breaks down mechanics and movement in the videos. He must be a Dynamo fan as almost all the videos involve Dynamo as one of the clubs. Good find for you to get that video. Theres lots more, heh.

heres one of Koskinen against a better club and showing more of the play; ps spoiler, CKSA won 2-1

Playing on a stacked team like that has pro’s and cons, I found it hard to get into a game if I didn’t get to feel and stop the puck

 

[nabob]

This is not entirely true. The best backups have the ability to sit for many games and be ready all the time. Starters need to be worked to be on their game.
Hired guns to speak. I think this is why many of the backups are older experienced players.

Good thing we just signed an older experienced goalie then to be our backup. Also a guy who has proven he can carry the mail as a starter. Better than going after a young guy who is neither of those.

 

[nabob]

Playing on a stacked team like that has pro’s and cons, I found it hard to get into a game if I didn’t get to feel and stop the puck

Ask almost any goalie and they'll tell you the same thing as you just said.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Ask almost any goalie and they'll tell you the same thing as you just said.

If the oilers defense doesn’t get upgraded, Koskinen won’t have to be worried about being bored

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You mean the media likes to stir things up and try and create controversy to get website hits? That's crazy talk.

I have yet to see a valid reason, or better available backup suggested.

The Oilers do a bang up job of stirring things up and creating controversy with terrible organizational decisions.

 

[Drivesaitl]

News flash! Every league in Eurasia has clubs like these as it is a completely free continent wide market where the wealthiest (or those with the most attraction) are able to attract the best talent. Hence you are suggesting that out of all the Eurasian clubs SKA St. Petersburg has the toughest inner competition as they have their choice of quality forwards, defencemen and goalies who could play big roles in most of the other teams instead of being the third liner, sixth defender or back-up goaltender for the wealthiest group.

Without understanding this nature of Eurasian leagues, comrade, you fail to see that Koskinen has been apex predator of this food chain where players are free for all for those who have money be signed. It reflects all the way to his NHL salary too.

One can look at it every way. Nobody is saying the guy is a tool. Of course he's good enough to be elite in the KHL. As mentioned only 30 players are making even a million bucks in the whole KHL league and 14 of them play for SKA.

This is a league in which Linus Omark was the 4th leading scorer. That's the nature of guns that Koski is facing on any given night. Mostly players that have never been anything and outside of a select bunch guys that were never good enough to stick around in the NHL. Lets not pretend he's getting seriously tested by elite talent every night. Most of the top talent in the league is playing for him every night. People need to comprehend that picture. It would be like combining the 1973 Canadiens, Bruins, Flyers, adding up the roster stars, and putting Cheevers and Dryden in net and seeing how they do every night playing in the expansion division...

Gee, a shut out against the Golden Seals...

 

[Canovin]

I was going on the 7minute clip I found a week ago in which he was flopping around like a big fish. He's more clean in these but even in the one I posted you see more of his unorthodox style. One thing that's kind of funny is he sure takes a lot of abuse. 2 min mark he gets walloped in the head with a high stick. Seen players run right into him, run him through the net etc.

Whoever films these ISO's is a scout of some sort. The goalies seem more intent on bringing their A games in these. just saying.

Koskinen is 6'7. He will never have the technique or the finesse of a goalie that is 6'1. That's how it is in every sports. Smaller athletes generally have better techniques as that's what they focus more on to make up for the lack of size. I can't comment on whether he will be good for us but I will say he looks more poised than Gustavsson

 

[Drivesaitl]

Playing on a stacked team like that has pro’s and cons, I found it hard to get into a game if I didn’t get to feel and stop the puck

Yeah but I'd take the GAA anytime over backstopping relegation worthy underdog teams that can't even pay payroll where players are paying their own way until the cheques reportedly come in 2mths later if at all.

Koski is playing in a weak league where a large proportion of players are wondering about even getting paid. He's playing on the one team in the league that can pay to the hilt and with few distractions.

So he's on the perfect big team in the KHL. Lets see how he does on the tirefire Oilers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Koskinen is 6'7. He will never have the technique or the finesse of a goalie that is 6'1. That's how it is in every sports. Smaller athletes generally have better techniques as that's what they focus more on to make up for the lack of size. I can't comment on whether he will be good for us but I will say he looks more poised than Gustavsson

This is totally fair comment, and I've considered the same. But its also an issue as size alone isn't enough at this level. It can get you great stats on a stacked team in the KHL. Not necessarily here. I never made any player comparison. You did.

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

Yeah but I'd take the GAA anytime over backstopping relegation worthy underdog teams that can't even pay payroll where players are paying their own way until the cheques reportedly come in 2mths later if at all.

Koski is playing in a weak league where a large proportion of players are wondering about even getting paid. He's playing on the one team in the league that can pay to the hilt and with few distractions.

So he's on the perfect big team in the KHL. Lets see how he does on the tirefire Oilers.

History says he'll probably fail. But what would you peg his chances at? How good of a chance does he have to have in order for this to be a worthwhile bet? How much does him failing hurt the franchise, vs. how much does him succeeding help? Who (other than Francouz, who I don't remember anyone mentioning before the Avs signed him) is a better bet?