Confirmed with Link: Oilers Sign Caleb Jones to 3 Year ELC

[Aceboogie]

At the same age Nurse was one of the top D on Team Canada on route to a gold medal, was a beast in OHL and looked incredible in OHL playoffs versus McDavid

 

[AUAIOMRN]

At the same age Nurse was one of the top D on Team Canada on route to a gold medal, was a beast in OHL and looked incredible in OHL playoffs versus McDavid

USA just won gold with Jones as one of their top D. And from the sound of it he's also been very good in the WHL and the playoffs.

 

[Aceboogie]

USA just won gold with Jones as one of their top D. And from the sound of it he's also been very good in the WHL and the playoffs.

That comment was in regards to Jones being way ahead of Nurse at same age. They are pretty much bang on

 

[John Connor McDavid]

Yes, Nurse looked "good" in the OHL (mostly in the defensive end) because he was physically imposing himself on teenagers. That's the extent of him looking "on par" with Jones at the CHL level.

The puck poise and offensive accumen you see Jones displaying has never been (and never will be) part of Nurse's game. And that's something you need in a top-4 defenseman in today's NHL (not that Jones will necessarily become that).

Actual offensive production is one thing but having puck poise is another. Nurse's 19yr old numbers are quite similar to Jones - but Jones didn't have an Anthony DeAngelo type D partner to help inflate his stats the way Nurse did

 

[nabob]

He is miles ahead of where Darnell Nurse was at the same age.

This post is so wrong that it's almost right! Seriously though, you're way off.

 

[Digger12]

Yes, Nurse looked "good" in the OHL (mostly in the defensive end) because he was physically imposing himself on teenagers. That's the extent of him looking "on par" with Jones at the CHL level.

The puck poise and offensive accumen you see Jones displaying has never been (and never will be) part of Nurse's game. And that's something you need in a top-4 defenseman in today's NHL (not that Jones will necessarily become that).

Actual offensive production is one thing but having puck poise is another. Nurse's 19yr old numbers are quite similar to Jones - but Jones didn't have an Anthony DeAngelo type D partner to help inflate his stats the way Nurse did

I'm pretty sure Nurse wasn't playing exclusively against 16 and 17 year olds his entire 19 yr old OHL season, his peers at 18 & 19 years of age were part of his daily diet as well when you talking about him physically imposing himself on teenagers. Same as Jones.

Sheesh, you portray it like he was some 25 year old man beating up squinty eyed teenagers that wouldn't get off his lawn.

And the flip side to saying DeAngelo "inflated" Nurse's offensive numbers (which I don't think was the case, at least in any great degree), is that DeAngelo was the dman who got all the offensive zonestarts and prime PP minutes as he was the #1 offensive dman on the team, while Nurse got all the hardest matchups as he was the Greyhounds' main shutdown dman. One could argue that if DeAngelo hadn't been there, Nurse's counting numbers might have gone up as he'd have been the main PP point man on that team instead of DeAngelo. There's lots of issues that go into it.

 

[Aceboogie]

Not to mention, Nurse was getting any and all tough matchups.

With that being said, I dont either can be discredited. I was very happy with Nurse was playing then (and has continued to progress into), and I am over the moon about Jones. Probably a top 5 D in the WHL this year and if there was a 2015 redraft, hed be a high 2nd or 1st round pick. His development has been phenomenal

 

[walktheboulavard]

At the same age Nurse was one of the top D on Team Canada on route to a gold medal, was a beast in OHL and looked incredible in OHL playoffs versus McDavid

Other than skating, I think that's about the extent of their comparison, success. They are both incredible prospects. You were bang on with the Josi comparison btw. That one play at around 3:32 when he opens up his hips and does the 10 and 2, skate around the defending player, enter the offensive zone and find the open guy in front of the net really personifies the complete package of skating, puck skills and IQ he possesses.

When it comes to our players, I think Klef is a better comparison as he is the only one that has all those traits at an abundance out our entire D core.

Not to mention, Nurse was getting any and all tough matchups.

With that being said, I dont either can be discredited. I was very happy with Nurse was playing then (and has continued to progress into), and I am over the moon about Jones. Probably a top 5 D in the WHL this year and if there was a 2015 redraft, hed be a high 2nd or 1st round pick. His development has been phenomenal

In retrospect absolutely. Remember when he was drafted the team was banking on him to grow a little lol, Bob Green said he had "projected size" ( could have something to do with having a 6'11 former NBA player for a father). He was I think 5'11 and 190 lbs at the time and the scouting report was completely off on him. If you knew he was going to be 6'1 and play like Josi lite as 19 years in the WHL I think you would. He was starting to show signs as early as last year. I am pretty sure that's why the organization was so quick to sign him to an ELC.

Another thing to note, he's no slouch on defence either, and is used as a shutdown D man as well.

 

[Canovin]

He is miles ahead of where Darnell Nurse was at the same age.

Not wrong. Not right either.

Nurse was the better player at the time of the draft. However Jones had more growth since then. Right now both are about the same relative to their age. But if Jones continues this trajectory, it's him and it's not even close

 

[walktheboulavard]

Yes, Nurse looked "good" in the OHL (mostly in the defensive end) because he was physically imposing himself on teenagers. That's the extent of him looking "on par" with Jones at the CHL level.

The puck poise and offensive accumen you see Jones displaying has never been (and never will be) part of Nurse's game. And that's something you need in a top-4 defenseman in today's NHL (not that Jones will necessarily become that).

Actual offensive production is one thing but having puck poise is another. Nurse's 19yr old numbers are quite similar to Jones - but Jones didn't have an Anthony DeAngelo type D partner to help inflate his stats the way Nurse did

I don't know if I would go completely that far. He can get better with the puck, maybe not as good as Jones can as he is more of a finesse player. They are just 2 different players/styles.

As far as offensive accumen goes, Nurse isn't as bad as some posters think he is. He knows when to jump into the play and had some pretty good numbers in terms of shots on net.

 

[bucks_oil]

I don't know if I would go completely that far. He can get better with the puck, maybe not as good as Jones can as he is more of a finesse player. They are just 2 different players/styles.

As far as offensive accumen goes, Nurse isn't as bad as some posters think he is. He knows when to jump into the play and had some pretty good numbers in terms of shots on net.

Totally agree. Puck poise, as nebulous as it may be, is the intersection of knowing your "outs/options", linking it to your physical skill (the passes you can make with ease, not the million dollar passes you wish you could make) and healthy dose of experience/maturity to play within yourself and not try to do too much or force plays. Most times it's about identifying your easiest option and keeping it open long enough for you to determine if a more exciting option opens up... then making the decision before it is too late.

Nurse has exceptional physical skills and decent vision. The most critical skill for D to have in order to have "puck poise" is mobility and he has that in spades. He was also a scholastic player of the year, so he's not a dummy. He could easily mature into a guy with puck poise.

Just to add: puck poise is a self-fulfilling prophecy based in part on reputation. Pronger had such exceptional puck poise because 1) he was MODEST: he learned to not force plays (like most rooks, he did force things early in his career), 2) he was MOBILE: he had exceptional mobility, so he could easily glide out of danger to open up passing lanes, 3) he was MEAN: if it came to it, he'd eat the puck and challenge the physical confrontation which most forecheckers were not game for...

Once you start doing those things consistently, you realize that the forecheckers aren't going to waste their energy coming at you, cuz they know it leads nowhere and potentially exposes them up ice.

 

[bucks_oil]

Ye
The puck poise and offensive accumen you see Jones displaying has never been (and never will be) part of Nurse's game.

I might as well also respond to you directly... I actually see all the makings of "puck poise" in Nurse. The only issue is his selection of his escape plan. If escape plan B is an easy pass to your D partner, I've seen huge improvement in that this year. Plan C is usually to skate a bit and open up lanes. When Nurse does this, he forgets that Plan C is meant as an escape valve and he ALWAYS tries to go forward with the puck. He get's away with it because of his skill, but what he needs to realize is that USUALLY the best implementation of Plan C is to skate backwards with your head up until you see Plan A (an up ice pass) open back up.

 

[Aceboogie]

I might as well also respond to you directly... I actually see all the makings of "puck poise" in Nurse. The only issue is his selection of his escape plan. If escape plan B is an easy pass to your D partner, I've seen huge improvement in that this year. Plan C is usually to skate a bit and open up lanes. When Nurse does this, he forgets that Plan C is meant as an escape valve and he ALWAYS tries to go forward with the puck. He get's away with it because of his skill, but what he needs to realize is that USUALLY the best implementation of Plan C is to skate backwards with your head up until you see Plan A (an up ice pass) open back up.

I do to as well. Nurse always looks for a great play and thats both a blessing and curse. Its a curse right now because as a young D he is finding out just how fast the NHL is. In junior he had time to look at 3/4 different options, in NHL its 1 and then do your safe play out. Nurse still looks for 3/4 options and holds on to it because he wants to make a good play, this results in turnovers tho, which everyone hates

Its a blessing because if you want to be a top pairing D, you HAVE to be able to make those special plays. The best D impact the game because they can turn a nothing play into something. That is what Nurse is trying to do and I really like it. He just needs refining. Even Karlsson and Doughty coughed the puck up a ton a young players trying to do this. Its better to reign in a race horse then whip a mule as they say. Its better IMO then a D who just always makes the simple plays and goes off the board and out at any time. Sure there is no direct giveaway, but there is no benefit to the forwards. Smid and Russell are two good examples for the Oilers. Off the glass and out, off the glass and out... Whereas a guy like Petry tried to be dynamic and make plays. He got whipped for it in Edmonton but right when he was learning how to control it, he was dealt to Montreal and really flourished there with this skill

Fans still view a stretch pass that gets picked off as really bad and a ooff the glass and out play that results in other team getting the puck as good. When in reality both end up in same thing, a turnover, atleast the pass has a chance to create a good play. This is a major problem in youth hockey and in pro as well. Coaches try and turn D into this mindless machine that only makes safe plays

 

[MessierII]

Yes, Nurse looked "good" in the OHL (mostly in the defensive end) because he was physically imposing himself on teenagers. That's the extent of him looking "on par" with Jones at the CHL level.

The puck poise and offensive accumen you see Jones displaying has never been (and never will be) part of Nurse's game. And that's something you need in a top-4 defenseman in today's NHL (not that Jones will necessarily become that).

Actual offensive production is one thing but having puck poise is another. Nurse's 19yr old numbers are quite similar to Jones - but Jones didn't have an Anthony DeAngelo type D partner to help inflate his stats the way Nurse did

I agree that it's much more likely Jones offensive game will translate. He makes smart passes and his shot is a bit better than nurse but it's nothing special. He seems to be smarter which will help him defensively but he will initially struggle against big pro players in terms of battles.

 

[walktheboulavard]

Just looking back at the previous WJC gold medal winning teams, it's promising to see that each of their top 2 (some up to 3) defenseman go on to have good NHL careers. A lot of them go on to become big time players.

Listening to how Jeff Marek and Colby Armstrong talk about Thomas Chabot and Sergachev in the Memorial cup, makes me wonder why he can't have the same potential/ceiling as these guys. Their games are very similar, great skating, confidence with the puck and propensity to jump in the play. There are a lot of great defesemen in Juniors with great numbers, but the way these guys dictate and drive play are on a another tier.

 

[Aceboogie]

Just looking back at the previous WJC gold medal winning teams, it's promising to see that each of their top 2 (some up to 3) defenseman go on to have good NHL careers. A lot of them go on to become big time players.

Listening to how Jeff Marek and Colby Armstrong talk about Thomas Chabot and Sergachev in the Memorial cup, makes me wonder why he can't have the same potential/ceiling as these guys. Their games are very similar, great skating, confidence with the puck and propensity to jump in the play. There are a lot of great defesemen in Juniors with great numbers, but the way these guys dictate and drive play are on a another tier.

I need someone to point out the weaknesses in Jones because honestly I cant find many. I have heard some with Bear but with Jones I cant.

Tools? Hes good size, hes a great skater and hes got great IQ

Playwise? he can put up big points when needed or play as a shutdown D when needed (WJC)

Honestly I think its only because he wasnt a high pick. He had a meh 2 years in US Under 18 team and being smaller at the time wasnt picked high. If he was drafted after his first WHL season I have little doubt itd be in high 2nd or even 1st round and people would be hyping him the way Chabot is getting hyped (not saying hes as good, just getting hyped more).

For Bear, even with the big numbers I do some ? marks with skating, size and even heard defensive ability. But with Jones, hard to see anything holding him back

 

[walktheboulavard]

I need someone to point out the weaknesses in Jones because honestly I cant find many. I have heard some with Bear but with Jones I cant.

Tools? Hes good size, hes a great skater and hes got great IQ

Playwise? he can put up big points when needed or play as a shutdown D when needed (WJC)

Honestly I think its only because he wasnt a high pick. He had a meh 2 years in US Under 18 team and being smaller at the time wasnt picked high. If he was drafted after his first WHL season I have little doubt itd be in high 2nd or even 1st round and people would be hyping him the way Chabot is getting hyped (not saying hes as good, just getting hyped more).

For Bear, even with the big numbers I do some ? marks with skating, size and even heard defensive ability. But with Jones, hard to see anything holding him back

The first thing that came to mind before even reading your second last paragraph was, he was a 4th round pick. And it was probably because of all the things you've mentioned; size to production ration in his draft eligible year.

I honestly can't find a significant weakness either. As for Bear, I don't think the Memorial cup is really a good representation of his game, I feel the broken hand/finger factored into the quality of his game. However his weakness in skating as you've mentioned is more apparent than any Jones might have.

Funny thing is I think these 2 could actually make a good pairing. Bear for some reason reminds me a little of Larsson (not potential or even playing style) he came in the league regarded as a defenseman with offensive ability but is restricted by his lack of mobility. At least at the level required to be a really good 2 way defeseman in today's standards. I can see Jones being to Bear what Klef is to Larsson.

 

[McMozesmadness]

Jones IQ is not a major strength. Only thing that could hold him back.

Other than that he need to focus on building strength. He's got a large frame just needs to add muscle.