Speculation: Oilers Shopping 10th Overall?

[Digitalbooya]

Suter has better TOI than Gardiner does.

Lol.

Whatever. If it leads to a Penguins style dynasty then people can say anything they want.

How soon people forget they drafted 5-1-2-1-2 over a five year period.

The trouble becomes Edmonton is still missing a #1D like Letang and they don’t have a Phil Kessel kicking it on the third line. I look forward to the pursuit though.

 

[Bazeek]

why would suter have worse charts than gardiner?

Interesting question. It's almost like those charts aren't a good indicator of how good a defenseman is, especially in regards to how well they defend.

None of this has anything to do with the Oilers maybe shopping #10 though, so I'll drop it.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Lol.

The trouble becomes Edmonton is still missing a #1D like Letang and they don’t have a Phil Kessel kicking it on the third line. I look forward to the pursuit though.

All the more reason I’m in favour of keeping the pick and drafting whoever drops out of Dobson/Hughes/Bouchard/Boqvist/Smith. Even Bode Wilde would be a solid get.

 

[rent free]

Suter has better TOI than Gardiner does.

makes sense. good explanation.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

makes sense. good explanation.

Thanks.

 

[rent free]

Interesting question. It's almost like those charts aren't a good indicator of how good a defenseman is, especially in regards to how well they defend.

None of this has anything to do with the Oilers maybe shopping #10 though, so I'll drop it.

you coulda really fooled me there

 

[Brett44]

lol this is a special kind of awful

Barrie>Rnh
Kerfoot and,or Andrighetto+16th= or > Pulujarvi
10th > first 2019 ( but not sure because 2019 probably a better draft than 2018)
Avs do it even if receive less value but receive à bigger winger and a good 2c

Edm. receive 2 fast winger who can play top6.And one of the better defense offensive.combo with Mcdavid will be crazy. Draft pick not a big gap.

 

[rent free]

Thanks.

you're welcome friend

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Barrie>Rnh
Kerfoot and,or Andrighetto+16th= or > Pulujarvi
10th > first 2019 ( but not sure because 2019 probably a better draft than 2018)
Avs do it even if receive less value but receive à bigger winger and a good 2c

Edm. receive 2 fast winger who can play top6.And one of the better defense offensive.combo with Mcdavid will be crazy. Draft pick not a big gap.

Not trading Puljujarvi for a downgrade + magic bean, not trading Nuge for Barrie not trading 10th for another magic bean that’s highly likely much worse.

Avs 16th + 2019 1st probably = 10th
RNH = Barrie
JP value >>> kerfoot/ghetto value.

You’re trying to sell high on Barrie and I get it but I’m not buying high on him. He’s an offensive 3/4 that’s awful in his own end.

 

[Digitalbooya]

All the more reason I’m in favour of keeping the pick and drafting whoever drops out of Dobson/Hughes/Bouchard/Boqvist/Smith. Even Bode Wilde would be a solid get.

I really like Hughes. He was on another level at Michigan. Doubt he makes it past Detroit though. Lots of options in the draft. Probably best to just keep the pick like you suggested.

 

[Eltuna]

Not trading Puljujarvi for a downgrade + magic bean, not trading Nuge for Barrie not trading 10th for another magic bean that’s highly likely much worse.

Avs 16th + 2019 1st probably = 10th
RNH = Barrie
JP value >>> kerfoot/ghetto value.

You’re trying to sell high on Barrie and I get it but I’m not buying high on him. He’s an offensive 3/4 that’s awful in his own end.

Barrie does not equal RNH. Barrie has outproduced RNH as a defenceman during the last three years (0.63 ppg versus 0.65 ppg) and the most current season. You might not personally want Barrie but you constantly downplay his value. The oilers offered Hall for Shattenkirk, the defenceman that’s probably most comparable to Barrie in recent years. Drouin was also offered for Shattenkirk, so it wasn’t just the oilers who valued him highly. Barrie + 16th for RNH + 10th is probably fair from a pure value perspective.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Barrie does not equal RNH. Barrie has outproduced RNH as a defenceman during the last three years (0.63 ppg versus 0.65 ppg) and the most current season. You might not personally want Barrie but you constantly downplay his value. The oilers offered Hall for Shattenkirk, the defenceman that’s probably most comparable to Barrie in recent years. Drouin was also offered for Shattenkirk, so it wasn’t just the oilers who valued him highly. Barrie + 16th for RNH + 10th is probably fair from a pure value perspective.

Even if you think that’s true, I still view Puljujarvi vs Kerfoot/Andrighetto and 2019 first as a serious mismatch value wise.

We rob Peter (RNH) to pay Paul (Barrie) down grade futures and give up a monster amount of potential in JP.

 

[Jumptheshark]

for me any deal for the 10th is built around a RHD PP specialist who can play 20+ minutes has term left and is under 5 mill a year

 

[Avs44]

for me any deal for the 10th is built around a RHD PP specialist who can play 20+ minutes has term left and is under 5 mill a year

These are all of the defensmen who put up a minimum of 20 powerplay points last year, played 20+ minutes, are right handed, have term left, and make under 5 million a year:

John Klingberg.

If we expand that to just 15 powerplay points Justin Faulk joins the list.

So looks like your wish-list is Faulk or keep the pick.

 

[Eltuna]

Even if you think that’s true, I still view Puljujarvi vs Kerfoot/Andrighetto and 2019 first as a serious mismatch value wise.

We rob Peter (RNH) to pay Paul (Barrie) down grade futures and give up a monster amount of potential in JP.

I’m not saying the trade was fair, I just don’t think Barrie=RNH. I understand why people wouldn’t want to give great value for Barrie, but his numbers give him value, they’re just too strong. Why would a center that produces less than a defenceman be worth the same?

I also wonder about RNH’s long term future with the oilers, what do oiler fans think about it? RNH plays like a center, and I would imagine he sees himself as a center. The oilers clearly want Drai as the 2C, so RNH either stays on McDavids wing, or plays 3C. These situations usually end up with the guy in RNH’s situation (Staal in Pittsburgh, Stastny in Colorado) wanting to go to a team where they can be a top 2 center.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I’m not saying the trade was fair, I just don’t think Barrie=RNH. I understand why people wouldn’t want to give great value for Barrie, but his numbers give him value, they’re just too strong. Why would a center that produces less than a defenceman be worth the same?

I also wonder about RNH’s long term future with the oilers, what do oiler fans think about it? RNH plays like a center, and I would imagine he sees himself as a center. The oilers clearly want Drai as the 2C, so RNH either stays on McDavids wing, or plays 3C. These situations usually end up with the guy in RNH’s situation (Staal in Pittsburgh, Stastny in Colorado) wanting to go to a team where they can be a top 2 center.

I think you caught a glimpse of his future at the end of last season - on McDavid’s wing. Those two together allowed us to put a replacement level player in Rattie on their wing and see success, setting up a future 2nd line mismatch with Draisaitl in the middle and a developed version of JP or Yamamoto on his RW.

 

[Brett44]

Kerfoot as a rookie 79gp 43 pts
Pulujarvi 69gp 20pts
Ok Kerfoot is older
Pulujarvi play with Drai ?
Kerfoot with Drai can do 60pts.

 

[Eltuna]

I think you caught a glimpse of his future at the end of last season - on McDavid’s wing. Those two together allowed us to put a replacement level player in Rattie on their wing and see success, setting up a future 2nd line mismatch with Draisaitl in the middle and a developed version of JP or Yamamoto on his RW.

I think that’s what the oilers would want but what about him? Situations where you ask a career center to play wing (ROR on Avs/Stamkos with Cooper, Seguin in Boston) usually don’t end up with the player being happy. RNH has been a playmaking center his entire career, I don’t think he is going to want to be a winger full time, eventually somethings gotta give.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I think that’s what the oilers would want but what about him? Situations where you ask a career center to play wing (ROR on Avs/Stamkos with Cooper, Seguin in Boston) usually don’t end up with the player being happy. RNH has been a playmaking center his entire career, I don’t think he is going to want to be a winger full time, eventually somethings gotta give.

I think ‘hey Nuge want to ride shotgun for the best player on the planet and see the best scoring numbers of your career?’ will be enough to placate any ruffled feathers. He’s been asked many times in interviews and he’s 100% ok with it.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Oilers gonna have a hard time trying to get a good offensive dman if all they have to offer is the 10th.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

10th OA + Klefbom for Doughty or Karlsson.

Both are worth more then this.

 

[Eltuna]

I think ‘hey Nuge want to ride shotgun for the best player on the planet and see the best scoring numbers of your career?’ will be enough to placate any ruffled feathers. He’s been asked many times in interviews and he’s 100% ok with it.

I guess only time will tell if Nuge is a Marleau and okay with it or a ROR and not okay with it. I would still argue if Barrie for RNH was offered it’s a hard yes from Edmonton though, especially if they consider RNH a winger now, as you think. Nicholson’s comments “If we could add another top defenceman that would be real good” “We’ve got some assets we could trade here”, and “It all starts with you want to have two good center iceman and we have those two (talking about McDavid and Drai)” suggest RNH might not be untouchable if a dman is available .

If Edmonton managment considers RNH a winger and acknowledges they badly need a puckmoving RHD, why wouldn’t they trade a winger for that RHD, especially when the RHD produces more offensively than the winger does? I wouldn’t call trading a winger (least valuable position) for a RHD (most valuable position) robbing peter to pay Paul like you did, ones much easier to aquire than the other.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I guess only time will tell if Nuge is a Marleau and okay with it or a ROR and not okay with it. I would still argue if Barrie for RNH was offered it’s a hard yes from Edmonton though, especially if they consider RNH a winger now, as you think. Nicholson’s comments “If we could add another top defenceman that would be real good” “We’ve got some assets we could trade here”, and “It all starts with you want to have two good center iceman and we have those two (talking about McDavid and Drai)” suggest RNH might not be untouchable if a dman is available .

If Edmonton managment considers RNH a winger and acknowledges they badly need a puckmoving RHD, why wouldn’t they trade a winger for that RHD, especially when the RHD produces more offensively than the winger does? I wouldn’t call trading a winger (least valuable position) for a RHD (most valuable position) robbing peter to pay Paul like you did, ones much easier to aquire than the other.

Nuge is whatever the Oilers need him to be. Same with Draisaitl. Versatility is valuable. It’s not as black and white as ‘oh he’s a winger now’ or ‘oh that guy is a centre 100%’. Their position will fluctuate.

Because Nuge on McDavid’s wing is a hell of a player - we’re talking 35 goal, 75 point potential. I see Barrie as more of a Shattenkirk type - all the pluses, all the blunders - but Avs fans seem to want him valued as a legitimate #1, which I just don’t see. Most of his production surge came on the powerplay, and while that has value, I think we’d want someone better in his own zone and at even strength.

Nuge for Barrie a couple years ago - pre Hall trade - would have made sense. Not so anymore. We’re fresh out of trades to lose.

Trading Nuge for Barrie doesn’t plug a hole for us, it just changes the location around and suddenly an already thin forward group is downright anorexic.

 

[BinCookin]

Oilers gonna have a hard time trying to get a good offensive dman if all they have to offer is the 10th.

Or they could just offer Mike Green a lot of $$$ so our GM doesn't re-sign him

(We need to get worse, and Green is our #1 D )

 

[Eltuna]

Nuge is whatever the Oilers need him to be. Same with Draisaitl. Versatility is valuable. It’s not as black and white as ‘oh he’s a winger now’ or ‘oh that guy is a centre 100%’. Their position will fluctuate.

Because Nuge on McDavid’s wing is a hell of a player - we’re talking 35 goal, 75 point potential. I see Barrie as more of a Shattenkirk type - all the pluses, all the blunders - but Avs fans seem to want him valued as a legitimate #1, which I just don’t see. Most of his production surge came on the powerplay, and while that has value, I think we’d want someone better in his own zone and at even strength.

Nuge for Barrie a couple years ago - pre Hall trade - would have made sense. Not so anymore. We’re fresh out of trades to lose.

Trading Nuge for Barrie doesn’t plug a hole for us, it just changes the location around and suddenly an already thin forward group is downright anorexic.

1. If Barrie was valued as a true 1D we’re talking Draisaitl, not the 10th overall plus or RNH plus, those pieces don’t even sniff a 1D.

2. Larsson and Barrie couldn’t be more different, not sure how Barrie doesn’t make sense anymore. Edmonton managment couldn’t be more clear that they badly want a puck moving RHD, it’s their priority and it’s obvious to anybody who is paying attention.

3. This is definitely true, although it’s much easier to acquire a winger for McDavid than it is to aquire a 50-60 point dman. Pacioretty, Hoffman, Skinner, there’s lots of winger options available at all times throughout a season. JVR, Neal, and Kane are also free agents, this is the easiest position to fill.

Maybe we just won’t agree on this, I think the biggest problem is separating what Edmonton managment would do, and what ChaoticOrange would do. You wouldn’t deal for Barrie because it costs a lot, I respect that. I disagree lf you think Chiarelli wouldn’t trade RNH straight up for Barrie though, I don’t think he could say yes fast enough.

Also, for your information as you seem to be misinformed, Barrie was very prolific on the pp this year, but during his career he has done most of his damage 5V5. We’re talking absolutely elite 5V5 production, no dman you could realistically trade for are as prolific 5V5 as Barrie has been throughout his career.