GDT: Oilers rookies @ Flames rookies - 7pm

[Louis Cypher]

ty rattie led the preseason in scoring you dopes..

get a hold of yourselves.

And now he has 2 goals in 3 games in the KHL. Why did we let him go?? We could have used him again this year to win some meaningless preseason games.

 

[North]

Pretty tough to get a good read on these guys with the lack of system in place.

Liked how feisty Benson was out there. Definitely going to get a good long look at camp. Good hands and vision. Could see him thriving with either pair in the top six.

Marody looked like he was trying to much. Looks like he gained a step and can tell he got stronger over the summer.

Samorukovs defense wasn't the greatest. Looked good moving the puck and being physical.

Mcleods defense looked good, would have liked to see him try some more things offensively.

Bouchard's defense is a little lackadaisical to be in the NHL this year. Loved his offense though, sky's the limit for him in that regard.

While I am excited about Samorukov’s potential, people have to remember he only started putting it together last season. He had shown flashes before that.

Now he’ll be in a new league so he’ll have to adjust to that and figure things out at this level.

 

[oobga]

I just don't get it. Nobody is saying season over. Everybody knows none of these guys have any business being on opening day roster anyway.
Are we supposed to pretend they looked good? I think we all hoped for a better showing, but are we not allowed to give a realistic evaluation of what happened in two games? Better get the pom poms out guys

No one is saying the season is over?? I am! It's done. All hopes were on our rookies filling gaping holes in the lineup and they just got owned by no names.




Joking aside, playoffs are clearly a long shot this year. Mostly will be up to goaltending to be stealing games through the year.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I was surprised by his speed. A decent long term prospect.

Future 3c. Damn good one too I bet.

 

[oilynutz]

While I am excited about Samorukov’s potential, people have to remember he only started putting it together last season. He had shown flashes before that.

Now he’ll be in a new league so he’ll have to adjust to that and figure things out at this level.

Had a chance to watch him play 2 games against the Manitoba Moose in 17-18 and really liked his game then. I'm sure he is just getting over some offseason rust. It's also tough for some of the older, more established prospects to get going for meaningless games as well

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oooooh, it all makes sense now.

Well I've had several people on this board tell me Benson is a better prospect than Gagner. How would anybody reconcile that view?

Gagner is a known commodity. Somebody that can some stuff on 2nd unit PP, handle some topsix minutes, bottomsix minutes, and be creative out there AT this level. Gagner can make plays and score goals at this level.

Theres no mystery in what I'm saying. Gagner IS a supporting offense player in the NHL. A guy that had 50pts in a recent season in spot use.

But I've seen 100 posts pencilling in Benson, automatically, on our topsix although its unclear why any NHL team would pencil him in there or people assume he could fit there. I'm not seeing it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The key point is that Benson is not a one dimensional player at all. Far from it.

As others have pointed out Benson and Marody dominated the AHL as rookies over a whole season. That tells you far more about their skills than the results we see in these two rather meaningless games. In the case of Marody I think there are some legitimate questions about how his game will translate to the NHL. But Benson's game is very much suited to the NHL.

Frankly, Benson showed me a lot of what I was looking for in him during these two games. But what I was not looking for was for him to be some dynamic offensive spark plug. It's not his game, nor will it ever be.

Every year these rookie games are analysed to death. But every year they also prove to be essentially useless in predicting how players will fair at the NHL level. Last time I looked Magnus Paajarvi was still waiting to get that Hart Trophy that they mistakenly inscribed Taylor Hall's name on.

So what is his game though. I always hear these nature of comments. "He won't blow you away, he's not a flashy player, that's not his game, he won't makee highlight reel rushes, that's not his game. He won't burn anybody with speed, not his game. "

WHAT at this level, is his game?

What did you see him do well last night that convinced you that he was doing what you want to see?

I saw him pass it to Flames 3 times last night.

Didn't see any battling hard or level of urgency from Benson last night.

Whereas the Flames forwards were aggressive and fast on the rush I saw Benson slow things down and then get dispossessed of the puck

I don't think I saw Benson win a puck battle all night.

I specifically keyed on Benson, was looking for any indication that he's top rank prospect. I've done the same in the past.

Lastly how is Bensons game more suited to the NHL. I don't see him as a great fit topsix or bottomsix. What niche is he going to carve out.

 

[McDNicks17]

So what is his game though. I always hear these nature of comments. "He won't blow you away, he's not a flashy player, that's not his game, he won't makee highlight reel rushes, that's not his game. He won't burn anybody with speed, not his game. "

WHAT at this level, is his game?

What did you see him do well last night that convinced you that he was doing what you want to see?

I saw him pass it to Flames 3 times last night.

Whereas the Flames forwards were aggressive and fast on the rush I saw Benson slow things down and then get dispossessed of the puck

I don't think I saw Benson win a puck battle all night.

I specifically keyed on Benson, was looking for any indication that he's top rank prospect. I've done the same in the past.

Lastly how is Bensons game more suited to the NHL. I don't see him as a great fit topsix or bottomsix. What niche is he going to carve out.

You know you don't have to take a contrarian stance on every popular opinion, right?

 

[Drivesaitl]

You know you don't have to take a contrarian stance on every popular opinion, right?

Over inflation of players triggers some of my response here. Like it would for Paajarvi, Omark, Yamamoto, Pulju, and as recently as last season people here saying "Spooner is exactly what we need"

The poster I responded to suggested very clearly that Benson was showing what he wants last night. I watched the same identical game. Didn't see Benson do any of what the Flames forwards were doing routinely on the rush.

The Flames had half a dozen forwards that were bringing a better game than Benson (or any of the Oilers forwards) and that were beating him on the puck.

What, in others opinion, did Benson do well last night, as this is a GDT for last nights game. Why not talk about it?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

You know you don't have to take a contrarian stance on every popular opinion, right?

Are you honestly shocked?

It’s a gimmick that isn’t done especially well.

 

[guymez]

I didn’t watch this game but listening to Woodcroft it sounded like they didn’t really coach it up all that much. They wanted to see what the kids could do sans systems which is fair when evaluating players.

It’s not about the W but seeing which players rise above, handle adversity, can make separation from the others, that sort of thing. In that regard Bouchard stood head and shoulders above everyone else with Benson after that. Nothing unexpected I suppose but it sounds like Marody didn’t play to expectations.

That explains what I saw. I honestly couldnt figure out why the Flames looked cohesive and the Oilers look like a group of individuals.
Interesting approach but IMO it would have been useful to see which players could follow instruction.

For me Pre season is never about the win...its all about getting a read on the players. I am not sure if throwing them out the with no preparation is particularly useful. Debatable I guess.

As for who stood out...for me it was Rodrigue, Lavoie, Benson and Bouchard.
Bouchard looks to me (one game) that he needs work reading the play defensively.
Marody looked weak on the puck to me...he seemed to be picking himself off the ice a lot. He also looked like his skating was an issue.

 

[Raab]

Had a chance to watch him play 2 games against the Manitoba Moose in 17-18 and really liked his game then. I'm sure he is just getting over some offseason rust. It's also tough for some of the older, more established prospects to get going for meaningless games as well

Dmen look better in structured games. These rookie games are the equivalent of shinny games. Where the more offensive guys stand out

 

[oobga]

wrong thread

 

[Oilers in NS]

I was surprised by his speed. A decent long term prospect.

Good to hear. Seen him in Halifax and he was struggling. In his rookie year in Saint John, he was a star

 

[guymez]

I was at the game. The oilers were much larger, the flames were smaller and faster. In a preseason with no structure or systems play, the faster guys will always look better.

Bouchard is clearly not ready, pretty disappointing to watch his defensive miscues. There is definatley a player there but needs a full year in the AHL/

Samurokov is pretty interesting. A steal of a draft pick because he has some serious potential

Marody does not have the speed or sense to be a meaningful nhl player. He might end up a bottom 6 because he seems to have some desire.

Benson seemed engaged at times. I almost wonder if his biggest goal was to not get injured as the Flames had a bunch of guys with n0 NHL chances this year and looking to make an impact.

It is uncanny how much McLeod reminds me of RNH. He looks like him, skates like him, plays a lot like him. I wonder if we have a player here in a year or two.

Lastly, I cannot believe how poor the game experience is at the saddledome. If I close my eyes, there is nothing new from 15 years ago. Terrible food, boring music and off ice entertainment. The lower bowl was completely full and they had 2 food kiosks open. If your kids wanted something during the first intermission, you ended up missing most of the 2nd period.

I wasnt at the game but one thing caught my eye watching it on the live stream...the Flames arent nearly as cheap as the Oilers when it comes to giving away merchandise. They were throwing hoodies, and hats into the stands.
At an Oilers game they throw T-shirts and thats it.

Also...not to defend the game experience at the Saddledome (I dont care for going to games there myself) but a rookie pre-season game (where the tickets are general seating and $5 a ticket) isnt really a legit sample of an NHL game experience.

As for the player evaluations...I completely agree. I hope McLeod can focus on being less of a perimeter player. He can sure skate.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Dmen look better in structured games. These rookie games are the equivalent of shinny games. Where the more offensive guys stand out

But even given the lack of structure one could see the silky smooth play of Bouchard back there. His confidence and timing with the puck is evident. he handles the puck with the authority of a PMD. That he knows he's one, that he expects he's one.

I thought Lavoie was better too than given credit for in the thread. he was aggressive to the puck, almost scored, and brought some compete.

 

[Oilers in NS]

I'd say Benson is close to a lock to be a useful NHL player.

Hope so. We need some help from within

 

[North]

That explains what I saw. I honestly couldnt figure out why the Flames looked cohesive and the Oilers look like a group of individuals.
Interesting approach but IMO it would have been useful to see which players could follow instruction.

For me Pre season is never about the win...its all about getting a read on the players. I am not sure if throwing them out the with no preparation is particularly useful. Debatable I guess.

As for who stood out...for me it was Rodrigue, Lavoie, Benson and Bouchard.
Bouchard looks to me (one game) that he needs work reading the play defensively.
Marody looked weak on the puck to me...he seemed to be picking himself off the ice a lot. He also looked like his skating was an issue.

I have a feeling because Woodcroft is a guy who develops skills, he wanted to see what each player does well when left to their own devices.

 

[Barrsy]

You know you don't have to take a contrarian stance on every popular opinion, right?

Hes right. Benson has no real skill that is something. He has good hockey sense. That's it.
So I struggle to see what this will be other than a marginal NHL'r. 3rd or 4th line type in time.

 

[Raab]

But even given the lack of structure one could see the silky smooth play of Bouchard back there. His confidence and timing with the puck is evident. he handles the puck with the authority of a PMD. That he knows he's one, that he expects he's one.

I thought Lavoie was better too than given credit for in the thread. he was aggressive to the puck, almost scored, and brought some compete.

But that’s the thing Bouchard should look good in these games. They play to his strengths. When we get into some more structured games where teams try and sustain a forecheck. We’ll see how they both look. I have a feeling as the games speed up Bouchard will look less dominant, while Samorukov’s play will be relatively unchanged.

 

[guymez]

I have a feeling because Woodcroft is a guy who develops skills, he wanted to see what each player does well when left to their own devices.

Fair enough. Its an interesting approach.
The one problem I see with taking that pond hockey approach is that pretty much every player on the team hasnt played in that type of environment since they were kids. Also...for some of the less skilled players adhering to a system is probably their entire game so what kind of a read is Woodcroft going to get there?
He is juts going to confirm what they already knew (who the skilled players are) and to me Pre season should be about gathering new information.

I am skeptical of the usefulness of this approach. Too bad I cant pose some questions to Woodcroft himself.

 

[guymez]

Hes right. Benson has no real skill that is something. He has good hockey sense. That's it.
So I struggle to see what this will be other than a marginal NHL'r. 3rd or 4th line type in time.

That isnt right at all.
Based on the AHL games I saw Benson has very good vision, he is smart and he is a very good passer. When there is no structure players arent where they are supposed to be which would affect a player like Benson who doesnt create based on speed.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have a feeling because Woodcroft is a guy who develops skills, he wanted to see what each player does well when left to their own devices.

It isn't the best arrangement for the prospects, and not necessarily fair to them. Hockey is a team sport. There were a lot of moments where the Oilers looked like a collection of players rather than team. Yet there were the Flames forcing pucks out, owning the boards, owning puck battle, and making one good rush off another.

The Flames were routinely isolating the shooter, and finding him, on tons of rushes.

SOG were 40-17. The game play was in line with that. We barely possessed the puck in Flames zone and never for long.

Some system differences, but compete lacking as well. We simply weren't hard on the puck, weren't sharp. We didn't match intensity.

As much as people will say these games don't matter they are typically huge for prospects. If you're a prospect you want to shine in camp. You have to.

 

[McDNicks17]

I have a feeling because Woodcroft is a guy who develops skills, he wanted to see what each player does well when left to their own devices.

I believe he said he was more focused on teaching them the language of systems to prepare them for the next level than drilling a system into them for these games.

 

[CupofOil]

Hes right. Benson has no real skill that is something. He has good hockey sense. That's it.
So I struggle to see what this will be other than a marginal NHL'r. 3rd or 4th line type in time.

Good hockey sense is kind of an important thing and one can argue that it's the most important attribute to have in order to have NHL success.

I'm not the biggest Benson fan either, I don't see enough skill to be a top 6 forward, but I do think he's a safe bet to be an NHLer in some capacity because of his hockey sense.

Either way, he had enough skill to be a PPG AHL rookie at 20 years old. Look up the players who scored at that level in the AHL at that age and it's an impressive list so I can understand why people have higher expectations of him going into this season.
What I don't understand is people writing him off (Marody as well) based on 2 rookie scrimmages. It's useless to overanalyze games like these, never understood why some people always do it.