Proposal: Oilers Neal for Predators Turris

[Burnt Biscuits]

Turris+3rd for Neal +2nd

I wouldn't do it straight up, both are overpaid, but Turris is overpaid for one year longer. Both players are buy-out candidates the teams just need to debate when they actually pull the plug, for Neal it'll either be this season or next, Turris if he's lucky might have 2 more seasons before he gets bought out, regardless I'd be looking to get out from under either ones cap-hits ASAP.

 

[bernmeister]

Is this balanced?

Keep in mind this is assuming no compliance buyouts.

I wouldn't do it straight up, both are overpaid, but Turris is overpaid for one year longer. Both players are buy-out candidates the teams just need to debate when they actually pull the plug, for Neal it'll either be this season or next, Turris if he's lucky might have 2 more seasons before he gets bought out, regardless I'd be looking to get out from under either ones cap-hits ASAP.

Both overpaid, but Turris is minimally useful.
Neal = waste of space

 

[Drake1588]

The thing with Turris is that he's generally thought of as a pretty good scoring line center, and he's chafing to get back to that role, but his team has Duchene, Johansen and Bonino down the middle already.

So the idea here is that Edmonton is going to trade for him, and slot him, what, behind McDavid, Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins? Why?

 

[Armourboy]

Turris really needs to be on a team where he could play as a #2 center. He isn't as bad as most around here believe and if given the opportunity could be pretty productive.

I also think Poile would just keep Turris, if for nothing else as injury protection. He had a chance to keep Neal and chose Jarnkrok over him which should tell you something.

Also Poile said that we needed to get younger and Neal doesn't really fit that bill.

 

[TFHockey]

Better for Edmonton to cut a deal with Seattle. Take Neal off our hands and a really good pick would be the sweetener. Edmonton will need the cap space to improve their top six.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Holland would be insane to trade for Turris, He's a #3C in Edmonton making 4 x $6,000,000 he'd make more sense as Detroit's #2C for 4 years then a #3C in Edmonton for 4 years.

 

[hmc1987]

Neal's contract is 1 year shorter. (Neal's contract has more value)
Neal is making 250K less per season. (It's too little of a difference to care about.
Turris is 2 years younger. (That matters. He should be in his prime. Easily trump's 1 more year if it's only costing Edmonton 3M on the last year when Neal's contract has expired.)
Neither player's contract has signing bonuses, so they aren't buy-out proof... but I feel like both teams are trying to compete now so buyouts are just going to handicap them.
Nobody is going to argue that Turris provides more value to his team. He isn't going to score 30 goals, but when Neal isn't scoring he doesn't provide as much value to his team as Turris does and we all know how streaky Neal is.

I've got a better idea.

When the expansion draft comes around Edmonton can offer Caleb Jones + 2022 1st rounder for Seattle to take Neal.
I don't know who Nashville has in terms of young up and comers who look like they're going to stick in the NHL and actually have some value, but they can do the same thing.

I really like that Vegas is a competitive team and that they got a bunch of picks coming out of the gate and I hope the same thing happens to Seattle.

Oil fans might not like the idea of paying a premium to get rid of Neal's contract, but we're in the cap era and I'd rather just get rid of a contract if it's possible instead of taking on another contract... especially a longer one.

Turris "should be in his prime". Last 3 seasons: 42, 23, 31 points. Sick prime.

Neal "out of prime". Last 3 seasons: 44, 19, 31.

Virtually the same. Neal is a PP specialist and otherwise a 3W.

Turris offers more, but continues to drastically disappoint. NSH brought Turris in to be a 40-50 point player and a 2C. He's a marginal 3C or a great 4C...

Maybe Edmonton retains 750k OR throws in a 3rd.

EDM: Turris

NSH: Neal + $750k retained on Neal OR a 3rd

 

[hmc1987]

Holland would be insane to trade for Turris, He's a #3C in Edmonton making 4 x $6,000,000 he'd make more sense as Detroit's #2C for 4 years then a #3C in Edmonton for 4 years.

What? Do you have some magical insider source that confirmed RNH is definitely going to re-sign on a team friendly contract? Because he's coming off his 2 best seasons back-to-back and is headed into a contract year. If he demands something like $8-9m EDM gonna have to make some decisions...scant defense, no goaltending, and no secondary scoring.

Letting RNH walk is not an option and resigning is highly preferred, but if he comes out and wants Jeff Skinner money, which he'd be well within his rights, EDM should see what kind of package they can get IMHO

Turris would be a good "backup" with 2c potential should RNH not want to stay

 

[hmc1987]

S


So we protect Jones. That leaves Benson, Kassian, Puljujarvi, Lagesson, AA, Khaira, Nygard, For Seattle.

If Puljujarvi is still Oiler property then he gets selected imo.

Can trade Pool party prior because he's got some value imho

 

[qqaz]

I still can't believe how poorly Turris has done in Nashville. He's getting only 15-16 minutes on average with far lesser linemates. But it's such a difference from what I saw with Ottawa, or in the world championship last year. I still like Turris, as a player. But he looked like someone just shot his dog before the games I saw in Nashville.

Turris is one of the most wasted players in the NHL right now. I think he'd boom if he went somewhere else, like Kadri did leaving Toronto.

Oddly enough, I think he'd be great in Arizona. He'd get 20 minutes a game there, and could click with Keller. But he left on bad terms early in his career.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris "should be in his prime". Last 3 seasons: 42, 23, 31 points. Sick prime.

Neal "out of prime". Last 3 seasons: 44, 19, 31.

Virtually the same. Neal is a PP specialist and otherwise a 3W.

Turris offers more, but continues to drastically disappoint. NSH brought Turris in to be a 40-50 point player and a 2C. He's a marginal 3C or a great 4C...

Maybe Edmonton retains 750k OR throws in a 3rd.

EDM: Turris

NSH: Neal + $750k retained on Neal OR a 3rd

Hm, Turris actually got 51-23-31 pts.

I think the 51 is basically something you can expect from Turris in any scenario where you hand him a #2C job - with commensurate icetime and linemates.

23 points - he was injured all year and played injured even when he wasn't on IR.

31 points - he bounced all over the lineup, mostly playing wing, sometimes with 4th liners, sometimes in the pressbox. I'm frankly somewhat surprised he even got 31 pts given his utilization.

It's nonsense to claim that Turris is a "marginal 3C or a great 4c"... more accurately he's: an adequate 2c, a marginal 3c, or a terrible 4c. He's also pretty terrible on the wing on any line. He is best as a 2C, and for his salary it's really the only place you can gainfully slot him on a roster+payroll.

Obviously Edmonton would not be a good place to put him, however. He really does need to slide into a spot where he's the #2c. There's really no justification for acquiring him in any other role. Given Edmonton doesn't have that role available, then Turris should simply be considered a non-starter for the Oilers.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I still can't believe how poorly Turris has done in Nashville. He's getting only 15-16 minutes on average with far lesser linemates. But it's such a difference from what I saw with Ottawa, or in the world championship last year. I still like Turris, as a player. But he looked like someone just shot his dog before the games I saw in Nashville.

Turris is one of the most wasted players in the NHL right now. I think he'd boom if he went somewhere else, like Kadri did leaving Toronto.

Oddly enough, I think he'd be great in Arizona. He'd get 20 minutes a game there, and could click with Keller. But he left on bad terms early in his career.

I guess at this point though, if any team thinks they might be willing to give Turris a shot to prove your theories about him (which I largely agree with) they might just as well wait out the buyout window, just in case.

I still don't really believe that Nashville would buy him out. But these are unusual times. Ordinarily there is no chance they would have, but maybe saving $4M this year really will matter that much to them.

In any event, just in case he does get bought out, you might as well wait it out. If he does become a UFA, you definitely want him to prove himself on a 1-yr show-me contract rather than on his current one. He'll be a great bargain if he ever does land in that situation. And we're at the point where if you have any interest in him, you might as well just wait and see if that opportunity might transpire.

 

[ManofSteel55]

NYR will do Buch + for Neal + --- but you know my price, core piece of which is non negotiable.

Non negotiable from Edmonton. Not in a dump deal especially.

 

[One Winged Angel]

NYR will do Buch + for Neal + --- but you know my price, core piece of which is non negotiable.

No, they won’t.

 

[One Winged Angel]

The thing with Turris is that he's generally thought of as a pretty good scoring line center, and he's chafing to get back to that role, but his team has Duchene, Johansen and Bonino down the middle already.

So the idea here is that Edmonton is going to trade for him, and slot him, what, behind McDavid, Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins? Why?

RNH from December on played on Draisaitl’s wing with Yamamoto.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Non negotiable from Edmonton. Not in a dump deal especially.

Dump? The Rangers would never touch that deal. This is Bern being Bern, again. He’s paraded this idea around before and the vast majority of Ranger fans want nothing to do with it because it’s a terrible idea. They could get better for Buchnevich.

 

[GoldOnGold]

I think Turris can still be a top-6 player, but I don't really know if Edmonton would be a fit for him.

 

[qqaz]

I guess at this point though, if any team thinks they might be willing to give Turris a shot to prove your theories about him (which I largely agree with) they might just as well wait out the buyout window, just in case.

I still don't really believe that Nashville would buy him out. But these are unusual times. Ordinarily there is no chance they would have, but maybe saving $4M this year really will matter that much to them.

In any event, just in case he does get bought out, you might as well wait it out. If he does become a UFA, you definitely want him to prove himself on a 1-yr show-me contract rather than on his current one. He'll be a great bargain if he ever does land in that situation. And we're at the point where if you have any interest in him, you might as well just wait and see if that opportunity might transpire.

All true.

But if he is bought out, whatever chance that has of happening, then the potential suitors could be more than just one team. Some team might prefer to trade a bad contract for the dice-roll on Turris, rather than keep your bad contract and hope you are the team to land Turris on the cheap.

I'm surprised bad contracts don't get swapped more often. Neal/Lucuc type moves could boost a team, rather than just let a player sit, fester, and whither away.

If I was a GM and had a Neal-like contract on the books, this is exactly what I'd be trying to do with it. Especially for Turris if I needed a #2C. I think Edmonton would happily add to Neal to land Turris.

 

[koteka]

Turris ($1 million retained) for Wennberg? (The retention is to offset the longer contract.)

Wennberg is a great defensive center and great in the PK, but doesn’t shoot anymore for some reason (Tom Wilson induced concussion). Wennberg’s contract is a year shorter and $1.5 million less. He’s a slightly overpaid 3C that can play some 2C but not a real 2C. He can frustrate Torts, but he also does a lot Torts likes. Like back check and screen goalies.

So Nashville could save 1/2 million for three years and $5 million in the last year of the contract. And get a solid player that would have a role on the team.

Turris could be a 2c again in Columbus and could provide veteran leadership after Foligno retires. (He is 2 years younger than Foligno.) He’d cost more than Wennberg.

Both would be exposed to Seattle now. Unless he seriously bounces back, there is no way Turris gets picked without a sweetener. Wennberg might be picked depending on whether Columbus chooses to protect 4 D (Savard and Murray would also be free agents so they wouldn’t be picked, so Columbus could have 6 D off the table) and how he performs next year and Seattle’s strategy (2 years of a slightly overpaid 3 C to get to league minimum). (He was good in the playoffs and scored an amazing goal which was so uncharacteristic of how he plays.) But if they both play well after a trade, maybe they could be picked by Seattle.

I don’t know how I feel about this as a CBJ fan. I think standing pat makes a lot of sense for Columbus given the general uncertainty and the upcoming expansion draft. I am trying to find a 2C upgrade without losing guys like Texier, Foudy, and Gavrikov. So I am looking for a potential trade that could help both teams. If Turris had a shorter contract, lots of teams might be interested, but nobody would offer him close to 4 x $6 million today.

 

[Mr Positive]

Delete

 

[Scoresberg]

Holland would be insane to trade for Turris, He's a #3C in Edmonton making 4 x $6,000,000 he'd make more sense as Detroit's #2C for 4 years then a #3C in Edmonton for 4 years.

At this point, pretty much any deal Turris is included, we'd have to retain some portion of his salary. I'd take Neal for Turris with a slight add from the Oilers side, but sounds like there's no need for Turris in Edmonton. He has to get top-6 minutes, or we have to retain so much salary that he essentially becomes a 3C.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris ($1 million retained) for Wennberg? (The retention is to offset the longer contract.)

Wennberg is a great defensive center and great in the PK, but doesn’t shoot anymore for some reason (Tom Wilson induced concussion). Wennberg’s contract is a year shorter and $1.5 million less. He’s a slightly overpaid 3C that can play some 2C but not a real 2C. He can frustrate Torts, but he also does a lot Torts likes. Like back check and screen goalies.

So Nashville could save 1/2 million for three years and $5 million in the last year of the contract. And get a solid player that would have a role on the team.

Turris could be a 2c again in Columbus and could provide veteran leadership after Foligno retires. (He is 2 years younger than Foligno.) He’d cost more than Wennberg.

Both would be exposed to Seattle now. Unless he seriously bounces back, there is no way Turris gets picked without a sweetener. Wennberg might be picked depending on whether Columbus chooses to protect 4 D (Savard and Murray would also be free agents so they wouldn’t be picked, so Columbus could have 6 D off the table) and how he performs next year and Seattle’s strategy (2 years of a slightly overpaid 3 C to get to league minimum). (He was good in the playoffs and scored an amazing goal which was so uncharacteristic of how he plays.) But if they both play well after a trade, maybe they could be picked by Seattle.

I don’t know how I feel about this as a CBJ fan. I think standing pat makes a lot of sense for Columbus given the general uncertainty and the upcoming expansion draft. I am trying to find a 2C upgrade without losing guys like Texier, Foudy, and Gavrikov. So I am looking for a potential trade that could help both teams. If Turris had a shorter contract, lots of teams might be interested, but nobody would offer him close to 4 x $6 million today.

Well, can Wennberg play wing? I mean, the only real reason we're stuck in this situation with Turris is because we have 4 other centers and he has no spot in the lineup.

I guess though that Wennberg is at least a cheaper buyout than Turris, even if it was with the retention? Maybe there is that angle?

 

[hmc1987]

Hm, Turris actually got 51-23-31 pts.

I think the 51 is basically something you can expect from Turris in any scenario where you hand him a #2C job - with commensurate icetime and linemates.

23 points - he was injured all year and played injured even when he wasn't on IR.

31 points - he bounced all over the lineup, mostly playing wing, sometimes with 4th liners, sometimes in the pressbox. I'm frankly somewhat surprised he even got 31 pts given his utilization.

It's nonsense to claim that Turris is a "marginal 3C or a great 4c"... more accurately he's: an adequate 2c, a marginal 3c, or a terrible 4c. He's also pretty terrible on the wing on any line. He is best as a 2C, and for his salary it's really the only place you can gainfully slot him on a roster+payroll.

Obviously Edmonton would not be a good place to put him, however. He really does need to slide into a spot where he's the #2c. There's really no justification for acquiring him in any other role. Given Edmonton doesn't have that role available, then Turris should simply be considered a non-starter for the Oilers.

Turris bounced over the lineup because he sucks and is an inadequate 2C...

The dude scored 51 points in Ottawa benefitting from playing with Hoffman, Stone, and prime Karlsson. He probably won't ever hit 50 points again.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

All true.

But if he is bought out, whatever chance that has of happening, then the potential suitors could be more than just one team. Some team might prefer to trade a bad contract for the dice-roll on Turris, rather than keep your bad contract and hope you are the team to land Turris on the cheap.

I'm surprised bad contracts don't get swapped more often. Neal/Lucuc type moves could boost a team, rather than just let a player sit, fester, and whither away.

If I was a GM and had a Neal-like contract on the books, this is exactly what I'd be trying to do with it. Especially for Turris if I needed a #2C. I think Edmonton would happily add to Neal to land Turris.

Everything is a bit mixed up with the current Covid situation, I suppose. Teams wondering if players who aren't "done" might get bought out, or RFAs might not get qualified, or UFAs might sign for much less term/$$$ than usual.

In this landscape, I'd certainly wait it out if I was any team who might be looking for the sorts of things that Turris can provide.

Buying out my own bad contract and then signing somebody at a reduced price would end up better than trading bad contracts. And there may be a saturated market of options out there this time. Abnormal circumstances all the way around.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris bounced over the lineup because he sucks and is an inadequate 2C...

The dude scored 51 points in Ottawa benefitting from playing with Hoffman, Stone, and prime Karlsson. He probably won't ever hit 50 points again.

No, he bounced all over the lineup because we already have our 4 center slots filled --- Duchene, Johansen, Bonino, and Sissons are our centers.

Well, you could say he bounced all over because of that AND because he can't seem to play wing for some weird reason.

I have no doubt he can get 50 points again. But he still sucks to 90% of the league, because you have to spoonfeed him the opportunity in order to obtain that. Still, if you project a gaping hole at 2C, he's certainly going to be adequate to fill that. He certainly was for us in 2017-18 when we had precisely that gaping hole to fill. And he did it playing with a sophomore Kevin Fiala and Craig Smith almost exclusively... not bad players, but certainly no Mark Stones.

What he did in the WC with Mantha was also very representative. Just run him out there with a player like that, and he'll chip in the necessary production to easily hit 50 points.

I think there have been a few teams mentioned with possible 2C openings around here... but Buffalo filled theirs, Florida and Minnesota have been mentioned, but it's not a big need around the league. Teams with that need are usually building too, and they have young players coming and don't want to block out their youngsters for 4 years. That's certainly true for Detroit at least. I don't think Edmonton should even be on the list, because Turris isn't what the Oilers are looking for. So it was a limited market to begin with, and now with Covid and everything, it could be zero market.