Post-Game Talk: Oilers lose the game, lose a body, nothing has changed

[Samus44]

This has been the argument since 2007...if only we were healthy. Reality is that other teams have injuries - they have the depth to compensate. We don't. This is not a good team. The core is suspect. The defence is horrid. Thankfully we have a goalie that appears to be competent that is signed.

Is it fair to judge the "core" when as you said the defense is and has been horrid? Let's be honest if you had a car with a blown transmission would you blame the engine for not being able to drive it to work? The core isn't the problem, we're only now getting some core dmen and with exception to Sekera they're all still too young or hurt. Let's see what the guys up front can do with a real defense behind them, they've never had that nor goaltending for a few years now either. Add a good defenseman or two, get healthy, improve the PP, and have an established coaching staff and goalie and i'm thinking next year will be a lot better. A Hamonic here or even a Hamhuis there and this team is far better. The core isn't the problem, it's the only thing keeping us in games. We've had a lot of 1 goal games and have clearly improved despite a ridiculous number of key injuries, we haven't even benefited from the McDavid factor so why would anything be different from last year? We've improved soley on the improvement of young players and better goaltending and we've been very underpowered things are looking up. There's no magic switch that just goes on and your team goes from bottom feeder to contender, we've been climbing the ladder.

 

[psowrc]

Jonathan Toews is having the worst season of his career. He's playing well now, but for the first couple months of the season he was practically a no show. That team was being carried entirely off the backs of an otherworldly performance from Patrick Kane. Sidney Crosby, who is undoubtedly the best player on the planet started the season with points in only 2 of his first 10 games.

No player is immune to the ebs and flows of a season. Not even the very best in the world.

To the game... I thought it was a close game. The Oilers bare down on some of their chances in the first period and it's a different game.

This wasn't a case of a goalie standing on his head and keeping a game close. The Oilers had plenty of chances including what... three crossbars?

Just think about how different the game might have been if Pakarainen bares down 30 seconds in and buries that gimme that he had in front of the net. Or Purcell puts away that slick pass from Hall a few minutes later on that 2 on 1?

I mean... none of those things happened. So it doesn't matter. They lost. One step closer to season being definitively over (if it isn't already. 8 points out is almost insurmountable. 8 points out when the teams ahead of the Oilers have ~4 games in hand... yeah, not gonna happen).

It was a competitive game though from start to finish imo.

Anyway. For those who want to blame the "core" ....

This team had Eric Gryba out there in the final minute to try and tie the game up. Consider that. People love to point fingers at players like Hall, Eberle, Nuge etc. But this team will never go anywhere when they consistently ice the worst defensive group in the league. They had the worst group of d-men going into the season. This was pointed out by lots of people. Being a crap team should be no surprise to people when at the best of times we've got 2 d-men who can make any sort of consistent pass. How pathetic is it that Davidson, a player who would be at best a #6/7 on any even semi-decent team in the league, is a devastating loss for this team?

When in the past 12 games has all the elite players dropped the ball for Chicago? We see it repeatedly.

 

[McFlyingV]

Jonathan Toews is having the worst season of his career. He's playing well now, but for the first couple months of the season he was practically a no show. That team was being carried entirely off the backs of an otherworldly performance from Patrick Kane. Sidney Crosby, who is undoubtedly the best player on the planet started the season with points in only 2 of his first 10 games.

No player is immune to the ebs and flows of a season. Not even the very best in the world.

To the game... I thought it was a close game. The Oilers bare down on some of their chances in the first period and it's a different game.

This wasn't a case of a goalie standing on his head and keeping a game close. The Oilers had plenty of chances including what... three crossbars?

Just think about how different the game might have been if Pakarainen bares down 30 seconds in and buries that gimme that he had in front of the net. Or Purcell puts away that slick pass from Hall a few minutes later on that 2 on 1?

I mean... none of those things happened. So it doesn't matter. They lost. One step closer to season being definitively over (if it isn't already. 8 points out is almost insurmountable. 8 points out when the teams ahead of the Oilers have ~4 games in hand... yeah, not gonna happen).

It was a competitive game though from start to finish imo.

Anyway. For those who want to blame the "core" ....

This team had Eric Gryba out there in the final minute to try and tie the game up. Consider that. People love to point fingers at players like Hall, Eberle, Nuge etc. But this team will never go anywhere when they consistently ice the worst defensive group in the league. They had the worst group of d-men going into the season. This was pointed out by lots of people. Being a crap team should be no surprise to people when at the best of times we've got 2 d-men who can make any sort of consistent pass. How pathetic is it that Davidson, a player who would be at best a #6/7 on any even semi-decent team in the league, is a devastating loss for this team?

Good post. I agree entirely about the game, it could have easily gone a different direction if we bury even 2 of those 5 chances you mentioned (hell even Drai had 2 prime chances from the slot, one Niemi made a nice blocker save, and the other he just barely missed sniping top corner).

I also find the blame on the core funny. Like I said in my earlier post, if you want to blame the make-up of the core then be my guest, but I laugh when people compare it to teams like Chicago and LA and say "well their core can do it". Yeah no ****, Chicago has an elite #1 D, a top notch #2/borderline low end #1, and an elite shutdown #3 that could probably be a #2, and have gotten solid (not elite) goaltending out of Crawford for a while. LA has an elite #1, probably a #2 in Muzzin, and had Voynov prior to last year, and a goalie who plays elite in the playoffs. Trying to compare our forward core when we don't even have a single Dman as good as any of the guys I mentioned is laughable.

Its actually hilarious how bad our D is not only at defending, but at keeping pucks in at the blue line, making breakout passes, clearing the zone, and getting shots through/setting up plays in the offensive zone, compared to these teams. Pretty hard to compare forward cores with the mess on our backend the past 10 years.

 

[TKB21]

Such a disappointing season with all the injuries piling up. Really would of liked to of seen a healthy roster for a couple months so the team could be evaluated properly.

 

[sportsdynasty]

The glaring weakness on this team for last decade is D. Not only do they suck defensively but also they suck offensively.

Yes, the forwards and the goaltending also stink most nights. But I think if we had decent D, our forwards and goalies would play much better. It's a team game after all.

After Chris Pronger left, the team still has no top pairing defenseman. You can't make the playoffs with the worst D in the league.

Go all in on Kevin Shattenkirk.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

You'd think after a decade of losing, and being a whisper away from 30th again this year, people would drop this condescension for once. People are sick of losing, no matter the takeaway. Can you blame them? Jesus.

Well if people are so sick of it, they should just stop watching, or if they are going to continue to watch it don't come in here and ***** and moan before and after every game.

I bleed copper and blue and have for twenty five years and I hate losing just as much as everyone else and I understand that certain players on this team need to go and changes need to be made but I also understand that climbing out of the hole that Lowe and them dug us over the last decade doesn't happen overnight.

I get that people are frustrated but it's apparent that the team is moving in the right direction and more changes are on the horizon, I'm just sick of being trashed by every other fan base and then to come in here and our own fans go on and on about how it's the same old thing. Good days are on the horizon, I know a lot of people are jaded and some people just like to whine for any reason but we should be rallying around the team and the guys who do show up and are going to be apart of the turn around. It's really easy to trash the team when they suck and be a super fan when they are good but a real fan focuses on the good even when there is so much bad for so long and it seems like a lot of people only pay attention anymore so they can come in here and point out all the bad over and over again.

Edit: And for the record McPuritania I've always found you to be one of the more reasonable, agreeable, knowledgeable posters.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Such a disappointing season with all the injuries piling up. Really would of liked to of seen a healthy roster for a couple months so the team could be evaluated properly.

and more injuries to come

 

[Spawn]

The glaring weakness on this team for last decade is D. Not only do they suck defensively but also they suck offensively.

Yes, the forwards and the goaltending also stink most nights. But I think if we had decent D, our forwards and goalies would play much better. It's a team game after all.

After Chris Pronger left, the team still has no top pairing defenseman. You can't make the playoffs with the worst D in the league.

Go all in on Kevin Shattenkirk.

The problem with going all in on Kevin Shattenkirk is... what if he isn't a top pairing defenseman?

His entire career he's been sheltered behind Pietrangelo, a guy who pretty much everyone considers a top 10 d-man in the league. A guy who along with Bouwmeester has consistently faced other teams top lines every single night out there.

Just because someone is an elite 2nd pairing d-man, doesn't mean they'll make a good top pairing one.

 

[Replacement*]

Jonathan Toews is having the worst season of his career. He's playing well now, but for the first couple months of the season he was practically a no show. That team was being carried entirely off the backs of an otherworldly performance from Patrick Kane. Sidney Crosby, who is undoubtedly the best player on the planet started the season with points in only 2 of his first 10 games.

No player is immune to the ebs and flows of a season. Not even the very best in the world.

To the game... I thought it was a close game. The Oilers bare down on some of their chances in the first period and it's a different game.

This wasn't a case of a goalie standing on his head and keeping a game close. The Oilers had plenty of chances including what... three crossbars?

Just think about how different the game might have been if Pakarainen bares down 30 seconds in and buries that gimme that he had in front of the net. Or Purcell puts away that slick pass from Hall a few minutes later on that 2 on 1?

I mean... none of those things happened. So it doesn't matter. They lost. One step closer to season being definitively over (if it isn't already. 8 points out is almost insurmountable. 8 points out when the teams ahead of the Oilers have ~4 games in hand... yeah, not gonna happen).

It was a competitive game though from start to finish imo.

Anyway. For those who want to blame the "core" ....

This team had Eric Gryba out there in the final minute to try and tie the game up. Consider that. People love to point fingers at players like Hall, Eberle, Nuge etc. But this team will never go anywhere when they consistently ice the worst defensive group in the league. They had the worst group of d-men going into the season. This was pointed out by lots of people. Being a crap team should be no surprise to people when at the best of times we've got 2 d-men who can make any sort of consistent pass. How pathetic is it that Davidson, a player who would be at best a #6/7 on any even semi-decent team in the league, is a devastating loss for this team?

Toews has played an incredible amount of hockey in the last 5years. Around a 100 more games, and these being intense playoff games than any Oiler who have had their feet up the first week of April every season.

Theres less excuse, far less, for the players on this team that are passengers in games to be that. Part of being a bad club is learning to take games off and having a list of excuses for doing so.

Theres also very few players on this club that would take the hot in the nads that Hendricks did and come back out in the 3rd period. Not accidental either that he would do that. The one vet on this team that tries to tell the players, and show them what it takes.

 

[sportsdynasty]

The problem with going all in on Kevin Shattenkirk is... what if he isn't a top pairing defenseman?

His entire career he's been sheltered behind Pietrangelo, a guy who pretty much everyone considers a top 10 d-man in the league. A guy who along with Bouwmeester has consistently faced other teams top lines every single night out there.

Just because someone is an elite 2nd pairing d-man, doesn't mean they'll make a good top pairing one.

Shattenkirk provides more offence than Pietrangelo. This team desperately needs offence from the backend.

I get it you'd prefer Doughty, Keith or Weber. It ain't gonna happen, so settle on the next best thing.

 

[Pablo Aimar]

It's beyond comical that, as this team enters it's tenth year of being the biggest joke in the league, there are still people rationalizing things and spouting the same stupid ******** about how a great turnaround is just around the corner.

There is a very good chance this team finishes dead last. Again. This is a level of consistent ineptitude that surpasses that of any other team in the history of the NHL, and probably any other league. How pathetic and sad for the once proud Edmonton Oilers. Thanks Katz.

 

[Replacement*]

He seems to have trouble staying onside as well. Good old Pouliot though ... guy seems to live a charmed life on this board.
Yak, Schultz, Eberle, RNH ... we roast these guys all night, every night. Barely hear a peep about Pouliot.

I wouldn't be quite as harsh as you were in your evaluation above, but this guy is precisely what people were thinking of when they coined the term floater. Many, not all, posters don't take that into their consideration when evaluating some of the weaker games turned in by the second line this season. Its like RNH and Eberle playing by themselves at times out there. Until Pouliot goes offside again.

Yep. Pouliot is a passenger in at least half the games or periods. McLellan has noticed it as well. Theres been comments. One was cleverly stated. Something to the effect that "Pouliot drives me crazy half of the time" It was stated within praising Pouliot but coach was careful to get the converse statement in to complete the picture.

Trouble is Pouliot doesn't even care. This is a pretend to care player if I've ever seen one. Has meaningful expressions perfected, Horcoffian excuses memorized, and a litany of got to play better platitudes. One gets the feeling Pouliot could say sorry 100 different ways and should be in politics..

Oh how I was carved for letting the board know what this player was all about when we signed him. Presently there wouldn't be a single poster that would disagree. Funny how that works.

 

[camboy]

The Oilers are like the universe. Evolution apparently takes millions of years. Fix the ****ing defense already. Unload the floaters and get it done.

 

[harpoon]

The problem with going all in on Kevin Shattenkirk is... what if he isn't a top pairing defenseman?

He may not be the prototypical #1 guy, I agree. But it doesn't matter. This team needs any kind of proven top two pairing veteran guys they can get in order to mentor what finally seems like a decent crop of young up and coming blueliners (Nurse, Klefbom, Reinhart).

Coach can sit there talking till he's blue in the face, but until you see guys executing the plays its sometimes hard to execute yourself. Young guys can see Xs and Os all day long but watching Shattenkirk move the puck around on the PP would be infinitely more valuable in speeding up their development as players. Oilers have no d-men who can execute anything on a consistent basis. Hoping that they might start to look good on the PP is ridiculous when they can't even consistently break out of their own zone.

We cannot afford to turn up our noses at Shattenkirk in any way. I would trade the first round pick next season for Shattenkirk in a second. Even if he doesn't want to resign after next season and we have to move him, its not like we get nothing for him. His value in that one year alone would be massive for this club.

 

[McFlyingV]

Well if people are so sick of it, they should just stop watching, or if they are going to continue to watch it don't come in here and ***** and moan before and after every game.

I bleed copper and blue and have for twenty five years and I hate losing just as much as everyone else and I understand that certain players on this team need to go and changes need to be made but I also understand that climbing out of the hole that Lowe and them dug us over the last decade doesn't happen overnight.

I get that people are frustrated but it's apparent that the team is moving in the right direction and more changes are on the horizon, I'm just sick of being trashed by every other fan base and then to come in here and our own fans go on and on about how it's the same old thing. Good days are on the horizon, I know a lot of people are jaded and some people just like to whine for any reason but we should be rallying around the team and the guys who do show up and are going to be apart of the turn around. It's really easy to trash the team when they suck and be a super fan when they are good but a real fan focuses on the good even when there is so much bad for so long and it seems like a lot of people only pay attention anymore so they can come in here and point out all the bad over and over again.

I agree, a little positivity never hurt.

On that note, these are the current roster players I'd like to be around for next season (I didn't include Nuge and would love if he stayed, but I think he'll have to be the one to go if we want a good Dman back. If you can do it without trading him keep Nuge around. I've said many times that I think he will breakout around 25 or 26, especially if he gets a good support cast around him).

Hall - speaks for itself, no matter what bad things anyone wants to say about him. He's a top 5 LW in the game and he plays with a ton of passion.

Draisaitl - Again speaks for itself. He's got all the makings of an elite playmaking 2-way centre with size and great puck protection that will only improve as he gets stronger.

McDavid - because he is my saviour, the light of my life.

Kassian - assuming he stays clean, he is a perfect big body with skill, puck protection, and physicality who can play up and down your lineup.

Letestu - pretty good in the draw, has some offensive skill which imo is starting to show more and more after a slow snake-bitten start. He's pretty smart defensively and can PK. Perfect 4C who can fill a 3C spot to at least an average level.

Hendricks - heart and soul, great pker, physical, and willing to lay his balls (literally) on the line. Ride this guy till he can't skate anymore.

Pouliot - Inconsistent, but when he's on he's effective. He's expendable if you can bring in someone like Lucic.

Yakupov - his trade values too low to be worth trading, he's still on a cheap contract. When he's engaged he can be physical. If he can find some better consistency with his shot, and grow on the mental side of the game he will be a great cheap option in the middle 6.

Pakarinen - He's fast, has a good shot, is very physical and has decent size. He's also still only 24 so I think he has room to grow. Pretty ideal 4th line winger imo.

Klefbom - He's great and we miss him so much. He's improved every year and just keeps improving. IMO he's going to be a top pairing D.

Nurse - Has found himself overwhelmed a bit of late, but this guy is going to be a beast (maybe not ever offensively) once he puts in a few more offseason's of training and fills the rest of that frame out. You want team toughness that can skate, hit, pass? This is your guy.

Sekera - Only Vet D on the current team I'd keep around. He's still susceptible to some lapses, but overall he is a solid D that would be ideal on our 2nd pair.

Davidson - cheap 6/7 D who still has room to grow and shows some good attributes in a few different areas.

Reinhart - same as Davidson if he can work on his skating and increase his physicality.

Talbot - He's better than any goalie we've had in recent years and still could improve his consistency as he gets more and more accustomed to being a starter (and hopefully some better help in front of him)


Really thats about all of the current roster that I want around next year (Eberle and Nuge I'd love to keep, but I'm just not sure they can improve the blue line without moving at least one of them unless they snag someone in FA or Klef/Nurse really break out and show they can shoulder the load).

 

[Tyrolean]

As long as the fans keep filling the seats and Katz makes money nothing is crucial.

 

[cbzblaze]

Well if people are so sick of it, they should just stop watching, or if they are going to continue to watch it don't come in here and ***** and moan before and after every game.

I bleed copper and blue and have for twenty five years and I hate losing just as much as everyone else and I understand that certain players on this team need to go and changes need to be made but I also understand that climbing out of the hole that Lowe and them dug us over the last decade doesn't happen overnight.

I get that people are frustrated but it's apparent that the team is moving in the right direction and more changes are on the horizon, I'm just sick of being trashed by every other fan base and then to come in here and our own fans go on and on about how it's the same old thing. Good days are on the horizon, I know a lot of people are jaded and some people just like to whine for any reason but we should be rallying around the team and the guys who do show up and are going to be apart of the turn around. It's really easy to trash the team when they suck and be a super fan when they are good but a real fan focuses on the good even when there is so much bad for so long and it seems like a lot of people only pay attention anymore so they can come in here and point out all the bad over and over again.

Edit: And for the record McPuritania I've always found you to be one of the more reasonable, agreeable, knowledgeable posters.

Great post. Wins and losses aside, this team is finally showing some fight! The improvement ON THE ICE is quite evident. I wish people would watch more games and less standings. The results will come if we keep improving. I still feel we will make a playoff push in these last 30 games, if klefbom comes back with mcdavid.

 

[harpoon]

As long as the fans keep filling the seats and Katz makes money nothing is crucial.

It should be abundantly clear to everyone by now that owning the Oilers is no more than a means to an end for Mr Katz.

Two failed GMs (one an intentional stooge for the tank).
Four failed coaches.
Countless careers ruined or irreparably damaged.
Sewering of the reputation of one of the most storied NHL franchises.
Fans given nothing but empty platitudes, promises about 'next year', and slick little propaganda shows in exchange for their loyalty and hard earned money.

BUT most importantly .... a new arena for Mr Katz and hundreds of millions in spin-off real estate developments to go along with that. So its all good.

 

[camboy]

It should be abundantly clear to everyone by now that owning the Oilers is no more than a means to an end for Mr Katz.

Two failed GMs (one an intentional stooge for the tank).
Four failed coaches.
Countless careers ruined or irreparably damaged.
Sewering of the reputation of one of the most storied NHL franchises.
Fans given nothing but empty platitudes, promises about 'next year', and slick little propaganda shows in exchange for their loyalty and hard earned money.

BUT most importantly .... a new arena for Mr Katz and hundreds of millions in spin-off real estate developments to go along with that. So its all good.

Yup...that pretty much sums it up.

 

[nexttothemoon]

There's positives and negatives... they are improving... but they keep on losing.

Ya the glass is half full... but we are still thirsty for some wins.

1 goal losses... yes they are in most games... win or lose... but 1 goal losses are still losses and the majority of NHL games across the league happen to be 1 goal games.

There's a lot of parity in this league and until you find a way to win more 1 goal games than you lose... you are going to remain a mediocre team at best.

Keep in mind if you lose all your games by 1 goal... you are minus 82 at the end of the season with zip in the point column... even though you were "in every game". Now that's obviously an extreme example... but it illustrates that losing a lot of 1 goal games really doesn't help you anywhere but in the moral victory column and that doesn't get a team anywhere in the end.

Again... it's somewhat of a eye-opener (not that we didn't know this already with the smallish/defensively weak roster)... to have McDavid out and see what this team can do without him in the lineup.

If changes aren't made to this team and let's say McDavid happens to get another long term injury next season... how many here really think the results wouldn't likely be very similar to this season? I think in that scenario we'd be looking at an 11th year without playoffs.

So in short... not enough depth to cover the inevitable injuries... and not enough toughness/grit/size to get the job done vs teams in the West which they HAVE to learn to beat to get anywhere if they ever want to be anything but playoff pushovers even if they do squeak in and make the post-season.


I hate to be a Negative Nancy... but to those that see improvement, how well do you think this team in it's current configuration would actually fare in the playoffs even if they were fully healthy and squeaked out a wildcard entry?

I would love to see them get in... but they would be rolled over in a 7 game series by almost any Western team... and that includes even the dregs of the West.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Just watched the condensed replay.

Does anyone else think Nurse should be sent down to the A? It feels like most of the opposing scoring chances, and goals, lately have been with him on the ice. It looks like he's jut overwhelmed.

And what was Pouliot thinking trying to get a stick on that puck? What the hell did he think would happen?

 

[I am the Liquor]

I think we need anther three or four years of lottery picks so we can rebuild the defense through the draft since nobody wants to trade Nuge or Eberle.

 

[Up the Irons]

Is it fair to judge the "core" when as you said the defense is and has been horrid? Let's be honest if you had a car with a blown transmission would you blame the engine for not being able to drive it to work? The core isn't the problem, we're only now getting some core dmen and with exception to Sekera they're all still too young or hurt. Let's see what the guys up front can do with a real defense behind them, they've never had that nor goaltending for a few years now either. Add a good defenseman or two, get healthy, improve the PP, and have an established coaching staff and goalie and i'm thinking next year will be a lot better. A Hamonic here or even a Hamhuis there and this team is far better. The core isn't the problem, it's the only thing keeping us in games. We've had a lot of 1 goal games and have clearly improved despite a ridiculous number of key injuries, we haven't even benefited from the McDavid factor so why would anything be different from last year? We've improved soley on the improvement of young players and better goaltending and we've been very underpowered things are looking up. There's no magic switch that just goes on and your team goes from bottom feeder to contender, we've been climbing the ladder.

is it fair to give the core a free pass, when they are the most important players on the team, and when we lose almost every game by 1 goal. we are not being blown out, we are one goal short.

yes, with our D, you can make a case that there isn't sufficient evidence to convict the core, but there is also no evidence that they are an good either.

I'll say till proven otherwise: other than Hall, no one in this core has proven they are elite players. It is a core of one highend player and a bunch of average players (Drai is showing signs of being above average).
(of course, i am discluding McD at this point)

 

[I am the Liquor]

Just watched the condensed replay.

Does anyone else think Nurse should be sent down to the A? It feels like most of the opposing scoring chances, and goals, lately have been with him on the ice. It looks like he's jut overwhelmed.

And what was Pouliot thinking trying to get a stick on that puck? What the hell did he think would happen?

I have noticed Nurse looking a bit overwhelmed out there lately but really you could say that about everyone on the team. This team isn't near good enough to weather the injuries they are currently faced with. Not an excuse its just the way it is.

 

[Up the Irons]

I think we need anther three or four years of lottery picks so we can rebuild the defense through the draft since nobody wants to trade Nuge or Eberle.

well, I would say that is a shrinking group of fanboys, but it is surprising there are still people who believe this core can win it all, and all Chia has to do is make a few minor moves/signings.