Post-Game Talk: Oilers Lose 2-0

[McPuritania]

Losers gonna lose.

This team will never get better, they will always be in the gutter.

 

[rboomercat90]

Oilers need to score more than zero goals if they want to win.....there are studies done on this.

I suspect Eakins has read these studies and that's why the defensemen pinch as much as they do. What we need to find for him are studies that show you have to score more than you give up to win. This could lead us to the break through we're looking for.

 

[Dynheart]

Non-Oiliers fan here.

If the Oilers manage to get first pick this year...do you think it would be wise to go for McDavid...or possibly start drafting some defensemen?

Honestly, I think that's where the problem lies. Too much focus on franchise scoring wingers/centers, but no focus on defense or Goaltending (no opinion on Scrivens...is he legit?).

And these top draft picks, to my understanding, aren't what we call defensive dynamos (RNH shows promise in a 2-way game).

I just think there's no thought going into your guys' franchise here. Just "Hey, he's the number 1 pick this year! Pick him! Pick him! This will make us Stanley cup contenders...if we stack enough number 1 over-all draft picks!"

Just an outsiders perspective...and most likely the captain obvious perspective.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Non-Oiliers fan here.

If the Oilers manage to get first pick this year...do you think it would be wise to go for McDavid...or possibly start drafting some defensemen?

Honestly, I think that's where the problem lies. Too much focus on franchise scoring wingers/centers, but no focus on defense or Goaltending (no opinion on Scrivens...is he legit?).

And these top draft picks, to my understanding, aren't what we call defensive dynamos (RNH shows promise in a 2-way game).

I just think there's no thought going into your guys' franchise here. Just "Hey, he's the number 1 pick this year! Pick him! Pick him! This will make us Stanley cup contenders...if we stack enough number 1 over-all draft picks!"

Just an outsiders perspective...and most likely the captain obvious perspective.

I really don't think you can pass up on McDavid. There hasn't been this much hype for a prospect since Crosby.

Defensemen usually aren't drafted at the top for a reason. As much as we need them, we have a decent crop of defensive prospects that I'd rather see develop than have the franchise shoehorn another rookie in.

Forwards are easier to bring in immediately because you can shelter them.

 

[McOvechking]

I really don't think you can pass up on McDavid. There hasn't been this much hype for a prospect since Crosby.

Defensemen usually aren't drafted at the top for a reason. As much as we need them, we have a decent crop of defensive prospects that I'd rather see develop than have the franchise shoehorn another rookie in.

Forwards are easier to bring in immediately because you can shelter them.

What if we get 1st overall, and Buffalo/Carolina/whoever has 2nd overall. Would you be opposed to trading down to draft Eichel? I think Eichel fits our needs far better than McDavid

 

[rboomercat90]

Struds is hitting the nail on the head. There is no one for these kids to look up to. We just keep adding young players and expect things to turn around. Who is going to lead this group?

The scary answer to this is Horcoff and Ference. I think in 2010 the organization decided Horcoff could mentor these kids. They played him with Eberle and Hall almost exclusively their first year and from all accounts he looked after them off the ice too.

I don't want to get into a debate on Shawn Horcoff because it's been beaten to death on here and I made my opinion on him clear since 2009 but I think regardless of what side of the issue you are on everybody can agree that he alone wasn't enough.

When Mactavish traded him I think he thought he was replacing Horcoff's "leadership" with Ference. I'm not surprised Mactavish misjudged Ference's leadership abilities or character. What surprises me is that he thought the lone veteran model would work after the organization saw first hand that it didn't with Horcoff. These guys, unsurprisingly, just don't learn anything from past mistakes

 

[Replacement*]

The irony is so thick in this post seeing as you've defended Gagner as if he was a family member for eons. Gagner is weaker than both players yet he was your fave.

My fave?

Lets add some perspective here. This team is horrible. It doesn't contain favorite players, any.

My favorite players of the past are players like Anderson, Smyth(in prime) Weight Guerin.

Obviously Mess, Gretz, Coffey, Kurri, Tikk, etc.

Even throw in Torres, Stoll.


That said theres certain players as a fan that I like. That may be liking the way the player is, who they are, and what they are like. I liked Gagner. In a sea of players that are hard to like.

Still think Gagner will turn out better than you think and he is at least adjusting and has packed on over 200lbs onto his frame. Slow start in Phoenix but we'll see.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

What if we get 1st overall, and Buffalo/Carolina/whoever has 2nd overall. Would you be opposed to trading down to draft Eichel? I think Eichel fits our needs far better than McDavid

It would have to be a pretty tempting offer.

I don't like using them as an example of what to do but look at what Colorado did last year when they took MacKinnon over Jones. Sure they're sucking this year but MacKinnon was a big reason for their ascension.

 

[sepHF]

What if we get 1st overall, and Buffalo/Carolina/whoever has 2nd overall. Would you be opposed to trading down to draft Eichel? I think Eichel fits our needs far better than McDavid

I don't think you could pass up McDavid, if you land him you might need to start thinking about trading one of RNH or Draisaitl in the future. But center depth is never a bad thing.

 

[rboomercat90]

The picture isn't clear enough but... maybe Purcell and Fayne are actually handcuffed to each other and have to stay that close together? Oilers systems.

 

[McOvechking]

I don't think you could pass up McDavid, if you land him you might need to start thinking about trading one of RNH or Draisaitl in the future. But center depth is never a bad thing.

It would have to be a very tempting offer, as GreatKeith mentioned. I'm talking Myers + 2nd OA for 1st OA. Or Haydn Fleury + 2nd for 1st. I'd entertain those offers.

 

[Dynheart]

I just wanted to see from an oilers fan perspective.

It would really suck for the next over 1st overall (or 2nd...or 3rd) just not get anywhere (no offense).

I thought we would be hearing big things from Hall and RNH by now. But alas. All you hear is that they are performing on a horrible Oilers team. If McDavid comes along, he'll suffer the same fate unless they do something with the blue line. Losing constantly has to wear on them eventually.

What's going to suck is by the time they realize this (the big wigs), all of these big catches will be getting their big contracts, and drafting big would have been for nothing (can't hold on to all of them).

I hope the Oilers focus on their blue line, and aim hard for a legit starter in the off season. I would like to see these guys be competitive again.

 

[rboomercat90]

Of course but it's clear we're not going to win with Cory and Trevor running the club either.

I love all these Trailer Park Boys references about this team lately. I can't think of a better analogy for this organization. I had to take a break from the board for a short while to compose myself yesterday after your Lowehey and MacRandy comment.

 

[Replacement*]

The picture isn't clear enough but... maybe Purcell and Fayne are actually handcuffed to each other and have to stay that close together? Oilers systems.

Its uncanny that they both go to the same player and think that is viable. As if two players on that player is going to be more effective than one.

But lets remember that Eakins last year was telling the players as part of the swarm system that they had to outman puck carriers to regain the puck.

Thus perhaps the confusion.

 

[LaGu]

Non-Oiliers fan here.

If the Oilers manage to get first pick this year...do you think it would be wise to go for McDavid...or possibly start drafting some defensemen?

Honestly, I think that's where the problem lies. Too much focus on franchise scoring wingers/centers, but no focus on defense or Goaltending (no opinion on Scrivens...is he legit?).

And these top draft picks, to my understanding, aren't what we call defensive dynamos (RNH shows promise in a 2-way game).

I just think there's no thought going into your guys' franchise here. Just "Hey, he's the number 1 pick this year! Pick him! Pick him! This will make us Stanley cup contenders...if we stack enough number 1 over-all draft picks!"

Just an outsiders perspective...and most likely the captain obvious perspective.

EDIT: I am having a bad day... but I still think it was a stupid question...


...

WTF are you talking about?

So if we would win the lottery and have 1st overall and the world doesn't turn upside down (i.e. McDavid is still a potential generational talent) we should skip him and draft defense...

I know we should give a **** about outsiders but give me a ******* break. Who in their right mind would ever do that?

Top ten D in 2004 were Barker and Smid, in 2005 J.Johnsson, Brian Lee and Bourdon, in 2006 the top 2 D were E.Johnsson and ????, 2007 Hickey and Alzner... etc etc...

I don't think we will be in the running for McDavid, despite the start, but what you are saying is just ... well, you're not an Oilers fan so I guess I should care really.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I love all these Trailer Park Boys references about this team lately. I can't think of a better analogy for this organization. I had to take a break from the board for a short while to compose myself yesterday after your Lowehey and MacRandy comment.

I'm just here to entertain.

There's a GDT idea in there somewhere. If I had photoshop skills I'd totally do that.

 

[McOvechking]

...

WTF are you talking about?

So if we would win the lottery and have 1st overall and the world doesn't turn upside down (i.e. McDavid is still a potential generational talent) we should skip him and draft defense...

I know we should give a **** about outsiders but give me a ******* break. Who in their right mind would ever do that?

Top ten D in 2004 were Barker and Smid, in 2005 J.Johnsson, Brian Lee and Bourdon, in 2006 the top 2 D were E.Johnsson and ????, 2007 Hickey and Alzner... etc etc...

I don't think we will be in the running for McDavid, despite the start, but what you are saying is just ... well, you're not an Oilers fan so I guess I should care really.

wtf are YOU talking about?

 

[LaGu]

wtf are YOU talking about?

Touche...

 

[Dynheart]

EDIT: I am having a bad day... but I still think it was a stupid question...


...

WTF are you talking about?

So if we would win the lottery and have 1st overall and the world doesn't turn upside down (i.e. McDavid is still a potential generational talent) we should skip him and draft defense...

I know we should give a **** about outsiders but give me a ******* break. Who in their right mind would ever do that?

Top ten D in 2004 were Barker and Smid, in 2005 J.Johnsson, Brian Lee and Bourdon, in 2006 the top 2 D were E.Johnsson and ????, 2007 Hickey and Alzner... etc etc...

I don't think we will be in the running for McDavid, despite the start, but what you are saying is just ... well, you're not an Oilers fan so I guess I should care really.

Possibly. But taking the best scoring talent year in and year out hasn't been working for the oilers either. Maybe trade them away for a legit #1 and #2 defense pairing?

Oh well. Another forward I suppose. I was wondering if you guys supported the same rocky road or not. I guess so. Since I'm not a oilers fan, I'll never know what it feels like I guess.

Just wanted to strike up an intelligent conversation is all.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Possibly. But taking the best scoring talent year in and year out hasn't been working for the oilers either. Maybe trade them away for a legit #1 and #2 defense pairing?

Oh well. Another forward I suppose. I was wondering if you guys supported the same rocky road or not. I guess so. Since I'm not a oilers fan, I'll never know what it feels like I guess.

Just wanted to strike up an intelligent conversation is all.

It largely has to do with coaching and management.

 

[rboomercat90]

Then I guess we should have drafted Seguin? -shrugs-?



I doubt that would ever happen. I don't know what it's going to take for Katz to do something. He went to the team practice today, so wtf is going on in his mind? I'll like to know. zzzz

Sportsnet played this off last night like it was a normal thing for him to do. Said he does it several times a year. Not sure how true this is but is it possible that we're reading something into this that isn't there?

 

[elpol]

3 games, 3 ****ing games and the knives are out.

The 'only' problem with RNH is that he hasn't shown as being truly capable (yet) of living up to Management's hype machine.

Same with Eberle.

Same with Jultz.

Ok... same with pretty much the whole damned team.

Really, perhaps just maybe this management group can't assess talent, has zero idea about and completely undervalues hockey IQ in young players, and also happens to be (to date) pretty hopeless at developing young players using proven techniques other than just dumb luck.

RNH should have been heavily sheltered and allowed to learn the game properly. This is not a revelation. People are dumping on him because they're just plain mad and frustrated that we 'might' be looking at another opportunity lost...

 

[rboomercat90]

I think putting the brakes on his major investment would give him a bit more incentive. There must be a way to at least tie up the arena building for say 6 months with some sort of legal matter. Tell him we'll go away if he Fires Lowe and every other crony in management.

I can't see this being a possibility at all. My guess is Katz has much better lawyers than the city does and any action at all by the city would turn into a financial nightmare.


As a side note. I was saying these same things throught out the arena negotiation and was getting flamed for them. I was never against the arena but was against the idea of shelling out all this money for an owner who had shown no interest in attempting to put a competitive team on the ice. I thought it was better to wait until he proved that he was as interested in the team itself as he was in the arena. We bought sight unseen so we deserve what we get now.

 

[Soundwave]

Non-Oiliers fan here.

If the Oilers manage to get first pick this year...do you think it would be wise to go for McDavid...or possibly start drafting some defensemen?

Honestly, I think that's where the problem lies. Too much focus on franchise scoring wingers/centers, but no focus on defense or Goaltending (no opinion on Scrivens...is he legit?).

And these top draft picks, to my understanding, aren't what we call defensive dynamos (RNH shows promise in a 2-way game).

I just think there's no thought going into your guys' franchise here. Just "Hey, he's the number 1 pick this year! Pick him! Pick him! This will make us Stanley cup contenders...if we stack enough number 1 over-all draft picks!"

Just an outsiders perspective...and most likely the captain obvious perspective.

Lowe/Mac T would need a police escort out of town if they picked anyone other than McGretzky, errr, McDavid. The Canadian media has already anointed him as the next Crosby.

 

[McShogun99]

All you need to do is look at the TOI usage between the two teams to realize that Eakin's doesn't know what he's doing. With Vancouver the TOI difference between the 1st and 3rd line is around 3 minutes, so between 18 to 15 minutes with the 4th line getting 10 minutes.
With the Oiler's the gap between the 1st and 3rd line is 5 minutes, while a returning from injury RNH played 2 minutes more then Hall and 6 minutes more then our checking center.

The defence TOI was balanced for Vancouver with a total of 3 minute difference between the 1st and 3rd pairings. Edmonton had an 8 minute differance between the 1st and 3rd pairing with Nikitin and Schultz playing almost 7 minutes more then the 2nd pairing.

So what it looks like Eakin's is doing is riding his top line and defensive pairing to the point where they are near tired by games end while the Canucks create balance thru out their lineup. All this does creates are tired top players with a higher chance of injuries.