Friedman: Oilers discussed trading late round pick for Martin Jones, Flyers looking for more

[bernmeister]

Jones is 45th-50th best G in the league. Koskinen at his confidence level has not been that the last 6 weeks. Its a band aid for a late pick. But its not an answer.

Hey Chuck, what's it gonna take to get Martin Jones in an Oilers uniform?

How about a late first?.
Hello?

def not worth a late 1st.
A late [round] pick, who cares but anything of value, no.

 

[bernmeister]

Geo for a 2nd + value looks better all the time
do it

 

[McJedi]

Your daily reminder that the Oilers traded down instead of drafting Wallstedt

I don’t get this. Isn’t Wallstedt still a few years away from being NHL ready. If he’s not realistically going to be ready to take the net until 2024 or 2025. Seems like an odd pick for a team that wants to win now.

plus I’ve read Xavier Bourgault has been good in his D+1 season. He made team Canada’s WJC team and he’s got 42 points/22 goals in 24 QMJHL games. Seems pretty promising.

I write all this as an Avs fan with no skin in this game. But I don’t see how Edmonton duffed this. I’d be pretty encouraged by my 2021 1st playing so well in the Q.

he’s 6’0. Plays C. Seems like a prospect any team would be excited to have in their farm system.

 

[ManofSteel55]

They need to draft in bulk and always have. That was one of their biggest mistakes in their endless rebuild.

You can't really draft bulk with goalies though. There's only so many spots for prospects in a system usually - 2 AHL, 2 ECHL - so unless you're drafting guys and leaving them to play in Europe or junior, each org. really only has 4 spots for prospect goalies. I am sick and damn tired of watching us pass on good goalie prospects though.

 

[Mike Jones]

You can't really draft bulk with goalies though. There's only so many spots for prospects in a system usually - 2 AHL, 2 ECHL - so unless you're drafting guys and leaving them to play in Europe or junior, each org. really only has 4 spots for prospect goalies. I am sick and damn tired of watching us pass on good goalie prospects though.

The Oilers can sign their extras and spares to AHL contracts. They can also draft Europeans who can linger at home for a while. There are lots of possibilities.

They should have been protecting picks and drafting at least 2 goalies per draft.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The Oilers can sign their extras and spares to AHL contracts. They can also draft Europeans who can linger at home for a while. There are lots of possibilities.

They should have been protecting picks and drafting at least 2 goalies per draft.

But where do they play if they do this? They can't have 6 or 7 AHL goalies.

With the European guys, yes they can play in the European leagues, but sooner or later they would need to start bringing them over. There's still only 4 minor league spots for goalies. Considering most goalies take 4 or 5 years to develop, it isn't feasible to draft 2 goalies per draft.

 

[Bevans]

Holland's lack of imagination or flair is so frustrating.

Can they at least interview some other potential GMs and then steal their ideas?

 

[SwedishFire]

Holland! Just trade for a goalie and a good D and part with the 1st rounder. Add a prospect. McD and Draisaitl had gone through very much shit. Time to work hard for address holes. Redeem yourself for the AA trade

 

[Fig]

Ummm.... where did you get that from?

At most you could surmise that Holland isn't willing to trade more than a late round pick for Martin Jones.

I forget where I read it, but I swear it was on HFboards somewhere for sure. It might have been a slight extension of something and part of the comment (or perhaps string of comments?) was definitely deduction from a string of facts. I think it may have been someone saying that loosely in response to a few other tidbits. I definitely recall seemingly reading it sometime around or after reading this thread though. Not all of the info was from HFboards but perhaps linked? (ie: Maybe some tweets and insider shows stuff?)

Basically the gist was (IIRC):

- You can assume that most teams won't be wanting a 2023 pick as the main pick. So most likely assume the ask is 2022 pick rather than purely 2023 picks.
- If Flyers balked at a late pick, deduction likely means a 2022 5th or later or maybe a 2023 3rd or later?
- Oilers have no 4th round pick in 2022 (Kulikov trade)
- Oilers likely don't have a 3rd in 2022 (Keith trade conditional to a 2nd if Oilers make the finals)
- Holland has either historically never traded firsts and/or expressed he would not trade a 1st for a goalie recently (?)
- Holland has expressed he isn't super interested in trading a 2nd (dunno how recent)
- Holland is back into a corner on goalie availability, so maybe something to guess is that similar to the Keith trade, if Oilers trade their 2nd (conditional) the pick turns into a first if the Oilers go far enough into the playoffs? (Going back to something that said Holland didn't want to spend a first on a goalie).

The comment that Holland didn't want to spend more than a third definitely IIRC was based upon the 1sts and 2nd comments combined with the concept that a few of the 2022 picks have already been traded away. It was a little bit beyond just whether he'd trade currency for Jones. But indeed it was speculation, but with some pretty reasonable facts to back it up. It wasn't some straight up insider saying it. Again, I do not recall where I read it. My apologies.


Even if certain starter calibre goalies pop up, if the MAF rumor is correct, Edmonton also has to compete with contenders for the big names that enter the market. The supply is already low and potentially demand is going to increase. However, I was thinking the other day that perhaps a goalie that might fit the Oilers and the other team might be Binnington? Jones doesn't make sense.

 

[bucks_oil]

I don’t get this. Isn’t Wallstedt still a few years away from being NHL ready. If he’s not realistically going to be ready to take the net until 2024 or 2025. Seems like an odd pick for a team that wants to win now.

plus I’ve read Xavier Bourgault has been good in his D+1 season. He made team Canada’s WJC team and he’s got 42 points/22 goals in 24 QMJHL games. Seems pretty promising.

I write all this as an Avs fan with no skin in this game. But I don’t see how Edmonton duffed this. I’d be pretty encouraged by my 2021 1st playing so well in the Q.

he’s 6’0. Plays C. Seems like a prospect any team would be excited to have in their farm system.

We were very impressed with him in camp.

As you say, the Oilers need a vet goalie or an emerging goalie in his mid-twenties. They don't need a prospect goalie.

If they can trade futures (picks) for a goalie, sign a vet 2nd pairing shutdown guy, we should be in pretty good shape. Prospects like Bourgault, Holloway and Savoie, all of whom can be NHL ready in our window, will allow us to restock our winger cupboards and provide scoring depth on ELCs while we manage our cap.

 

[Mike Jones]

But where do they play if they do this? They can't have 6 or 7 AHL goalies.

With the European guys, yes they can play in the European leagues, but sooner or later they would need to start bringing them over. There's still only 4 minor league spots for goalies. Considering most goalies take 4 or 5 years to develop, it isn't feasible to draft 2 goalies per draft.

Organizations should have at least 5-6 goalies under contract at the minor league level. There's nothing wrong with stashing first year goalies on ECHL rosters while under AHL contracts.

It's also important to remember that conventional rebuilds are only supposed to run about 4-5 years tops (2 years for tear down and 2-3 for getting back into playoff contention). That's only about 4 extra goalies to juggle around and with Europe and the NCAA as options the prospects can, indeed, be stretched out.

The fact that the Oilers rebuild too frickin' forever says more about the competence of Oilers ownership and management than it does about the process.

 

[Crabapple]

Does Holland know how to fuse 3 bad goaltenders into one good goaltender? Can't see what else he'd be planning here...

 

[bucks_oil]

I forget where I read it, but I swear it was on HFboards somewhere for sure. It might have been a slight extension of something and part of the comment (or perhaps string of comments?) was definitely deduction from a string of facts. I think it may have been someone saying that loosely in response to a few other tidbits. I definitely recall seemingly reading it sometime around or after reading this thread though. Not all of the info was from HFboards but perhaps linked? (ie: Maybe some tweets and insider shows stuff?)

Basically the gist was (IIRC):

- You can assume that most teams won't be wanting a 2023 pick as the main pick. So most likely assume the ask is 2022 pick rather than purely 2023 picks.
- If Flyers balked at a late pick, deduction likely means a 2022 5th or later or maybe a 2023 3rd or later?
- Oilers have no 4th round pick in 2022 (Kulikov trade)
- Oilers likely don't have a 3rd in 2022 (Keith trade conditional to a 2nd if Oilers make the finals)
- Holland has either historically never traded firsts and/or expressed he would not trade a 1st for a goalie recently (?)
- Holland has expressed he isn't super interested in trading a 2nd (dunno how recent)
- Holland is back into a corner on goalie availability, so maybe something to guess is that similar to the Keith trade, if Oilers trade their 2nd (conditional) the pick turns into a first if the Oilers go far enough into the playoffs? (Going back to something that said Holland didn't want to spend a first on a goalie).

The comment that Holland didn't want to spend more than a third definitely IIRC was based upon the 1sts and 2nd comments combined with the concept that a few of the 2022 picks have already been traded away. Again, I do not recall where I read it. My apologies.


Even if certain starter calibre goalies pop up, if the MAF rumor is correct, Edmonton also has to compete with contenders for the big names that enter the market. The supply is already low and potentially demand is going to increase. However, I was thinking the other day that perhaps a goalie that might fit the Oilers and the other team might be Binnington? Jones doesn't make sense.

There's a lot to unpack there. It is definitely true Holland said he didn't want to trade a 1st for a goalie, but the implication most Oilers fans took from that was i) "rental" goalie and ii) posturing for negotiations, or iii) he's a bumbling fool.

My point. I don't think he's a bumbling fool, but I think he would be to pay anything more a late pick (or even anything at all) for Martin Jones. I think you are over-generalizing and there is a lot of speculation there.

 

[SherVaughn30]

No surprise here. Holland is the GM who passed up on drafting that Swedish goalie. While it wouldn't have helped their immediate problem with goaltending, it would have secured their need for a future #1 goalie. I think he still thinks he's GM'ing the Wings! Oilers don't make so good on drafting in the later rounds and free agency has changed with a salary cap!

 

[Fig]

There's a lot to unpack there. It is definitely true Holland said he didn't want to trade a 1st for a goalie, but the implication most Oilers fans took from that was i) "rental" goalie and ii) posturing for negotiations, or iii) he's a bumbling fool.

My point. I don't think he's a bumbling fool, but I think he would be to pay anything more a late pick (or even anything at all) for Martin Jones. I think you are over-generalizing and there is a lot of speculation there.

To be fair, I did say seemingly. But ultimately, when you compare the currency the Oilers have to work + what they want (starter with term/can be extended?) vs what's potentially available... the options are hella limited. Even if the Oilers put a 2nd on the table, with what is on the market, I don't think that's what the Oilers should be pursuing at all.

Yes, I am a Flames fan, but my entire opinion on the matter is that the Oilers should pony up a 1st+ in a calculated gamble to secure a long term starter in the same way that the Sharks originally did with Jones and Toronto did with Andersen instead of messing around with lower tier goalies. This season is also seemingly one of the worst ever to be shopping for a goalie due to the plethora of retirements and injuries (long term and in last few months) that occurred that caused many teams to lock up goaltending and not looking like they'd let go without significant incentive.

You're right, we don't know what Holland is thinking. You don't think he's a fool... agree to disagree. You think he'd consider the first to target something big... hopefully you're right.

 

[BudBundy]

No surprise here. Holland is the GM who passed up on drafting that Swedish goalie. While it wouldn't have helped their immediate problem with goaltending, it would have secured their need for a future #1 goalie. I think he still thinks he's GM'ing the Wings! Oilers don't make so good on drafting in the later rounds and free agency has changed with a salary cap!

So if we drafted Wallstedt, everyone would instead be laughing at us for wasting the precious “win now” prime years of McDavid and Draisaitl by picking a goalie who won’t play an NHL game for at least 4 or 5 years. If Wallstedt was playing extremely well and the Oilers tried to get him some big league games two years from today (which would be stupid of us), everyone would rightly be screaming about how the Oilers are rushing him and will ruin another young prospect. So NO! The Oilers didn’t make a mistake passing on Wallstedt. I’ll keep Bourgault, thanks very much.

 

[Accelleratii]

Oilers offer late round pick for terrible goalie.

Flyers want more than that for terrible goalie in floundering season.

You cant make this shit up

 

[Maitz]

I’d trade them Allen for a 3rd when he comeback

 

[McDNicks17]

I’d trade them Allen for a 3rd when he comeback

They already have a Jake Allen.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Chuck wants more for a nobody-goalie..i hate that man

he is looking for a goalie with size and grit

 

[Stuzchuk]

 

[JAK]

The most Oilers thing to do, would be to trade for Jones, declare him goalie of the future, sign him to $5m x 5.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

The Flyers will keep Jones.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don’t get this. Isn’t Wallstedt still a few years away from being NHL ready. If he’s not realistically going to be ready to take the net until 2024 or 2025. Seems like an odd pick for a team that wants to win now.

plus I’ve read Xavier Bourgault has been good in his D+1 season. He made team Canada’s WJC team and he’s got 42 points/22 goals in 24 QMJHL games. Seems pretty promising.

I write all this as an Avs fan with no skin in this game. But I don’t see how Edmonton duffed this. I’d be pretty encouraged by my 2021 1st playing so well in the Q.

he’s 6’0. Plays C. Seems like a prospect any team would be excited to have in their farm system.

The problem is that this is always the logic. We never draft goalies with decent picks, because apparently the window to win is only within two or three years. It's been this way since 2006! I like Bourgault, and I'm not against the pick, but it's one more example to throw on the pile that cements the truth that our org does not care about goaltending.

It's a position that they try to outsmart the league with. Goaltending is voodoo. Spend your assets elsewhere