News Article: Oilers "culture change" a big reason for historic start

[MaxR11]

Heh...I hear you.

I think its just a matter of acknowledging reality. This team was a mess last season.
So far Tippett and Holland have turned that mess into a competitive team.

So for me its just perpesctive. Some posters seem to think that just because the team has sucked for 10 year that they have a right to expect the team be a winner this season.
Its a process and the process isnt likely to meet with the demands of posters who want to win right now....reality be damned.

agree, it can take a while to change the culture of a team. Ups and downs. Ultimately you HAVE to have the buy in of the top players for it to work. If they aren't going to buy in and play with lack of urgency and care on the d side, it's a tougher sell to the rest of the roster. They showed more buy in early in the year then they settled back into bad habits of the previous years. If this team wants to move forward we might have to grind out some 2-1 games. They need to get it in their mindset to defend well as a five man unit FIRST and FOREMOST and work out to offence as five men units from there. They seem to forget these things from time to time during games and get impatient, complacent and lose the urgency and details of their games.

this is why it's sometimes easier to get a competitive team quickly out of the gate with a bunch mediocre players (ie Vegas, Isles). they will be more likely to buy in consistently than super stars. But if you can get the strs to buy in, well then obviously you're better off.

 

[Soundwave]

Trying to build a "grind" team here is bull shit and will never work.

If you have players like McDavid and Draisaitl, you build an offensive team around them.

Never in the history of the NHL have 22/23 year old players that good offensively been asked to play some garbage trap hockey style.

It doesn't work and it never will. When you have two players of that ability at that age, you can either build them an offensive powerhouse type of squad, or you can f*** off.

Those are basically your two options. You don't marry a Playboy model or gorgeous Hollywood actress and then tell her that she can only ever dress modestly and wear no make up and just be a housewife and think she's going to be happy. You knew what you signed up for.

There is only one kind of team you build for Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Malkin, Ovy, tier talents when they are in their early 20s -- that is an offensive juggernaut style of team.

 

[guymez]

The Oilers are 4 points up on the 9th place team and that team has 2 games in hand. It's been well over a month since they were playing consistently good hockey.

The Oilers are one of the worst teams in the league at 5v5. They were carried so far by stellar special teams and 2 of the best players in the world who are now showing signs of burn out because they've been overplayed for nearly 1/2 a season. Our PP is still going strong, but our PK numbers are falling and our goaltending has begun to fall apart.

Let's not pretend like it's all sunshine and roses.

I stated that this team was bad last year and that the expectations for this season (where posters are dying on each game) are unrealistic.

The 5x5 play was sustainable when the team played the system. Of course now that they have deviated from that the team is losing....rather obvious dont you think?

With what Holland was given he and Tippett have utilized and maximized this lineup IMO...provided they play the system. Having special teams in the top 3 in the NHL is no small feat.
Especially considering how bad this team was on the PK last season. Even with the drop off in goaltending the PK has still been good.

In any event please do show how I suggested that it was all sunshine and roses.
Honestly...what a ridiculous conclusion.

Just because I choose not to join your debbie downer party (which is seemingly never ending) doesnt mean I am not acknowledging the obvious.

 

[McDNicks17]

I stated that this team was bad last year and that the expectations for this season (where posters are dying on each game) are unrealistic.

The 5x5 play was sustainable when the team played the system. Of course now that they have deviated from that the team is losing....rather obvious dont you think?

With what Holland was given he and Tippett have utilized and maximized this lineup IMO...provided they play the system. Having special teams in the top 3 in the NHL is no small feat.
Especially considering how bad this team was on the PK last season. Even with the drop off in goaltending the PK has still been good.

In any event please do show how I suggested that it was all sunshine and roses.
Honestly...what a ridiculous conclusion.

Just because I choose not to join your debbie downer party (which is seemingly never ending) doesnt mean I am not acknowledging the obvious.

Tipp disagrees.

He said the team is playing the same way. They were just carried by special teams and goaltending earlier in the season.

 

[guymez]

agree, it can take a while to change the culture of a team. Ups and downs. Ultimately you HAVE to have the buy in of the top players for it to work. If they aren't going to buy in and play with lack of urgency and care on the d side, it's a tougher sell to the rest of the roster. They showed more buy in early in the year then they settled back into bad habits of the previous years. If this team wants to move forward we might have to grind out some 2-1 games. They need to get it in their mindset to defend well as a five man unit FIRST and FOREMOST and work out to offence as five men units from there. They seem to forget these things from time to time during games and get impatient, complacent and lose the urgency and details of their games.

this is why it's sometimes easier to get a competitive team quickly out of the gate with a bunch mediocre players (ie Vegas, Isles). they will be more likely to buy in consistently than super stars. But if you can get the strs to buy in, well then obviously you're better off.

Absolutely.
The other side of this is that this team needs some changes. Maybe even to the core group if players cant or wont buy in to the hard work and commitment it takes to play a responsible game.
IMO thats a lot of what this season was all about in the first place.

I have said right from the beginning of the season that this season was going to be rocky.
Here we are.
The fact that they managed to get where they have before Christmas is gravy.

Lastly I am not going to apologize to the Buzz Killington posters on here (who like to justify being pissy all the time) for enjoying myself during the past few months.
Last time I checked thats what being a fan was all about.

 

[guymez]

Tipp disagrees.

He said the team is playing the same way. They were just carried by special teams and goaltending earlier in the season.

Nonsense. I have heard Tippett say in the last few interviews that players are (all too often) missing assignments....making bad decisions.
He's right. That is the biggest problem right now.

The formula for this season was pretty obvious. Maximize the special teams play and break even 5x5. Until recently thats exactly what they were doing.
Its sustainable if the players do what they are supposed to do.

 

[Soundwave]

Nonsense. I have heard Tippett say in the last few interviews that players are (all too often) missing assignments....making bad decisions.
He's right. That is the biggest problem right now.

The formula for this season was pretty obvious. Maximize the special teams play and break even 5x5. Until recently thats exactly what they were doing.
Its sustainable if the players do what they are supposed to do.

Asking McDavid and Draisaitl to constantly give 100% offensively to the team while also being asked to bring it defensively is not a realistic ask for 82 games.

There's no forward in the history of the game that could do that, not Gretzky, not Lemieux, certainly not at age 22/23.

 

[guymez]

Asking McDavid and Draisaitl to constantly give 100% offensively to the team while also being asked to bring it defensively is not a realistic ask for 82 games.

There's no forward in the history of the game that could do that, not Gretzky, not Lemieux, certainly not at age 22/23.

Draisaitl and McDavid need to give 100% and play responsibly as does the entire team. Will that work out over 82 games...of course not. Players will have off nights and stuff happens....but it will provide an ingredient necessary to make progress.
It will become the identity of this team.

All we are really talking about here is breaking even at 5x5 over the course of the season...that's it.
Then their superior special teams can win games.

Breaking even 5x5 is not an unreasonable ask for this or any other team.

 

[DaGap]

lol f*** this thread

 

[Soundwave]

Draisaitl and McDavid need to give 100% and play responsibly as does the entire team. Will that work out over 82 games...of course not. Players will have off nights and stuff happens....but it will provide an ingredient necessary to make progress.
It will become the identity of this team.

All we are really talking about here is breaking even at 5x5 over the course of the season...that's it.
Then their superior special teams can win games.

Breaking even 5x5 is not an unreasonable ask for this or any other team.

They can't give 100% to D when they are being asked to carry three lines worth of offence + 2 full PP units worth of responsibility.

No hockey player can do that. Gretzky did not give 60% to his D zone coverage on many nights, but obviously went 100% on offence all the time.

There's a finite amount of energy any player has before hitting exhaustion, the fact is for this team to even be in games, McDavid and Draisaitl have to expend near exhaustion just on the offensive side.

 

[guymez]

They can't give 100% to D when they are being asked to carry three lines worth of offence + 2 full PP units worth of responsibility.

No hockey player can do that. Gretzky did not give 60% to his D zone coverage on many nights.

There's a finite amount of energy any player has before hitting exhaustion, the fact is for this team to even be in games, McDavid and Draisaitl have to expend near exhaustion just on the offensive side.

They have to give 100% regardless of the lineup. Every player needs to give 100%.

The problem isnt giving 100%...the problem is in their minutes. In their usage.

There is one area that I completely agree with you about and thats the need for a high end 2nd line player.
We can debate whether or not Hall is that player but it is a need for sure.

 

[Soundwave]

They have to give 100% regardless of the lineup. Every player needs to give 100%.

The problem isnt giving 100%...the problem is in their minutes. In their usage.

There is one area that I completely agree with you about and thats the need for a high end 2nd line player.
We can debate whether or not Hall is that player but it is a need for sure.

They can't give that much and the reality is no player really does.

Defensive first players don't exert as much energy on offence, offensive first forwards save energy for offence.

Yeah it's easy to say "just play 100% all the time everywhere on the ice" .... we know that's not a reality.

Nobody does that. Gretzky, Lemieux did plenty of defensive fly bys and jumped the zone plenty in their careers.

If you're going to ride one line this hard, then you simply cannot expect 100% defensive effort because they are running on fumes at times as is just to keep the offensive side from sinking. There comes a time where an organization has to be honest with itself if what they're asking of is fair, and what's being asked here is beyond what any other two players in the NHL are asked to do and maybe more than any two in the history of the game.

 

[guymez]

They can't give that much and the reality is no player really does.

Defensive first players don't exert as much energy on offence, offensive first forwards save energy for offence.

Yeah it's easy to say "just play 100% all the time everywhere on the ice" .... we know that's not a reality.

Nobody does that. Gretzky, Lemieux did plenty of defensive fly bys and jumped the zone plenty in their careers.

Are you suggesting to me that if Drais and McDavids usage goes down that they shouldnt try and give 100%?
If so then with all due respect I think you are out to lunch here.

 

[Soundwave]

Are you suggesting to me that if Drais and McDavids usage goes down that they shouldnt try and give 100%?
If so then with all due respect I think you are out to lunch here.

If they are not gassed to death by having to shoulder 3 line's worth of offence and can have some physical and mental (just as important) breaks, yes, I think they can then take a goddamn breath and focus on other areas of their games.

Right now they can't, they are being asked to do more than any two players in the league on the offensive side and you just think 30 games of that does nothing to the body/mind. Newflash ... it takes a toll.

 

[guymez]

If they are not gassed to death by having to shoulder 3 line's worth of offence and can have some physical and mental (just as important) breaks, yes, I think they can then take a goddamn breath and focus on other areas of their games.

Right now they can't, they are being asked to do more than any two players in the league on the offensive side and you just think 30 games on that does nothing to the body/mind. Newflash ... it takes a toll.

I dont understand why you are skipping over the critical part where I am stating over and over again that its thier usage that s the issue here.
Thats why they are running out of gas.

I am a little perplexed why you think that it should be okay for McDavid and Draisaitl (or any other player) to not try and give 100% if their minutes are sustainable.
It makes no sense what so ever.

I dont want any player on my team that doesnt try and give 100%. They can GTFO.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The petri dish went like all bad or something.

 

[Soundwave]

I dont understand why you are skipping over the critical part where I am stating over and over again that its thier usage that s the issue here.
Thats why they are running out of gas.

I am a little perplexed why you think that it should be okay for McDavid and Draisaitl (or any other player) to not try and give 100% if their minutes are less.
It makes no sense what so ever.

I dont want any player on my team that doesnt try and give 100%. They can GTFO.

Their usage is as such because the rest of the team isn't very good because the previous GM destroyed it.

So I mean that is what it is.

People really don't realize how f***ing exhausting hockey is too. I'm not pretending to be a high level hockey player, but I played a lot of sports growing up and was a pretty decent athlete (can dunk on a 10 foot rim clean, no issues, run a solid 100m). Played football, basketball, soccer, some hockey.

I can tell you no sport I've experienced is as exhausting as hockey. Even just beer league mens hockey, in situations where only 2 lines of forwards show up, by the end of the game ... man oh man, I imagine that's what Leon and Connor feel like a lot of the time.

You're just spent, your whole body feels salty from all the sweat, you're just dying at the end of some shifts. I'd just drive straight to McDonalds after games and have to down at good 1000 calories to recover, lol.

What these guys do is remarkable, I can't imagine how exhausted they must feel at times.

What we're doing in not giving these two more help is irresponsible.

 

[guymez]

Their usage is as such because the rest of the team isn't very good because the previous GM destroyed it.

So I mean that is what it is.

People really don't realize how ****ing exhausting hockey is too. I'm not pretending to be a high level hockey player, but I played a lot of sports growing up and was a pretty decent athlete (can dunk on a 10 foot rim clean, no issues, run a solid 100m). Played football, basketball, soccer, some hockey.

I can tell you no sport I've experienced is as exhausting as hockey. Even just beer league mens hockey, in situations where only 2 lines of forwards show up, by the end of the game ... man oh man, I imagine that's what Leon and Connor feel like a lot of the time.

You're just spent, your whole body feels salty from all the sweat, you're just dying at the end of some shifts. I'd just drive straight to McDonalds after games and have to down at good 1000 calories to recover, lol.

What these guys do is remarkable, I can't imagine how exhausted they must feel at times.

What we're doing in not giving these two more help is irresponsible.

I dont disagree with any of this.
The problem as I see it is that the reasoning above doesnt support the argument for not trying to give 100% when and if the minutes are sustainable.

 

[Soundwave]

I dont disagree with any of this.
The problem as I see it is that the reasoning above doesnt support the argument for not trying to give 100% when and if the minutes are sustainable.

The minutes aren't sustainable right now.

Even if they were the other issue is still a problem ... there's a mental toll here where it's exhausting to be the only 2 players the team continually leans hard on every night.

After 20, 30 games of that, things start to blur and the mental sharpness starts to slip, you're in a new airport every other day, in a different hotel bed, hockey requires different people to be "feeling it" for different streches, we just put it all on the shoulders of two guys + goalie.

I think people underestimate the toll that takes on a person mentally and physically. It's too much. Mentally you have to be so dialed in just to score goals period, that is the hardest thing to do at the NHL level.

 

[guymez]

The minutes aren't sustainable right now.

Even if they were the other issue is still a problem ... there's a mental toll here where it's exhausting to be the only 2 players the team continually leans hard on every night.

After 20, 30 games of that, things start to blur and the mental sharpness starts to slip, you're in a new airport every other day, in a different hotel bed, hockey requires different people to be "feeling it" for different streches, we just put it all on the shoulders of two guys + goalie.

I think people underestimate the toll that takes on a person mentally and physically. It's too much. Mentally you have to be so dialed in just to score goals period, that is the hardest thing to do at the NHL level.

I swear...you arent even reading what I am posting here...lol

There is a disconnect between us...not sure why but its there.

 

[Soundwave]

I swear...you arent even reading what I am posting here...lol

There is a disconnect between us...not sure why but its there.

Fundamentally I don't think it's possible to be 100% focused on offence and defence.

That isn't really how the sport works. Players on every shift have a precious amount of finite energy and they "save" energy on one side to be able to perform higher on the other end.

It's a "gamble" every player takes, offensive minded players always try to keep something in the tank so they can counter attack.

 

[guymez]

Fundamentally I don't think it's possible to be 100% focused on offence and defence.

That isn't really how the sport works. Players on every shift have a precious amount of finite energy and they "save" energy on one side to be able to perform higher on the other end.

It's a "gamble" every player takes, offensive minded players always try to keep something in the tank so they can counter attack.

Honestly...a lecture on sports isnt necessary.
If you go back and actually read what I posed on this my position is really clear.
Players have a responsibility to their team mates and to the owners that sign the contracts to try and give 100%.

It has nothing what so ever to do with taking gambles or anything else for that matter. There are no exceptions to this IMO.

 

[Soundwave]

Honestly...a lecture on sports isnt necessary.
If you go back and actually read what I posed on this my position is really clear.
Players have a responsibility to their team mates and to the owners that sign the contracts to try and give 100%.

It has nothing what so ever to do with taking gambles or anything else for that matter. There are no exceptions to this IMO.

I mean realistically that doesn't happen.

Even Gretzky, who's the greatest player of all time, an honest appraisal of his game was

100% effort on offence

60-65% on defence

There were plenty of times where Wayne was at the other team's blue line while the Oilers were getting scored on.

If it was that easy everyone would be 29-year-old Datsyuk.

McDavid and Draisaitl are giving 100%. They're giving more than any two players in the league, but when like 80 of that 100 has to go into keeping the Oilers offence from drowning, there's not much left over. You have to be realistic.

 

[guymez]

I mean realistically that doesn't happen.

Even Gretzky, who's the greatest player of all time, an honest appraisal of his game was

100% effort on offence

60-65% on defence

There were plenty of times where Wayne was at the other team's blue line while the Oilers were getting scored on.

If it was that easy everyone would be 29-year-old Datsyuk.

McDavid and Draisaitl are giving 100%. They're giving more than any two players in the league, but when like 80 of that 100 has to go into keeping the Oilers offence from drowning, there's not much left over. You have to be realistic.

If you go back and look at what I have posted so far I am suggesting that players have to be committed to try and give 100%. regardless of the situation.
I would suggest to you that every single successful NHL player has done that through their career.

The results and the level of success may vary due to circumstances that come up in a game and during a season (ie bumps and bruises...getting winded...etc) but to not try and give 100% is simply not being a professional.

As soon as you start suggesting that a player can only give 60% on defence when do you determine that its okay? If a player doesnt require to skate hard back into the D zone and isnt winded is it okay that he doesnt cover his man.
Do you just go...thats okay...you are only required to give a percentage of your effort on D.
What kind of message does that send to the rest of the team?

Surely you can see how that is an extremely flawed perspective doomed for team failure.

 

[Soundwave]

If you go back and look at what I have posted so far I am suggesting that players have to be committed to try and give 100%. regardless of the situation.
I would suggest to you that every single successful NHL player has done that through their career.

The results and the level of success may vary due to circumstances that come up in a game and during a season (ie bumps and bruises...getting winded...etc) but to not try and give 100% is simply not being a professional.

As soon as you start suggesting that a player can only give 60% on defence when do you determine that its okay? If a player doesnt require to skate hard back into the D zone and isnt winded is it okay that he doesnt cover his man.
Do you just go...thats okay...you are only required to give a percentage of your effort on D.
What kind of message does that send to the rest of the team?

Surely you can see how that is an extremely flawed perspective doomed for team failure.

So your summation is what exactly? McDavid and Draisaitl don't give a 100%?

I would say that's patently false, there's no two players that exert more of themselves for their team in the modern NHL period.

If that's not good enough to get wins, then the problem is the team around them.