Post-Game Talk: Oilers choke

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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but he's not solely to blame is the point

that kind of gaffe happens all the time in every single game...4 other players and the goalie had a chance to prevent that goal from going in...instead, no one blocked the shot and it gets tipped in

That's like saying Buckner isn't to blame because the pitcher should have struck out the batter instead of allowing any contact at all. Sure, you can technically blame the other players, but the critical mistake was made by one player.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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As far as I can tell the whole team owed the PK units a beer as they're the reason Edmonton was even in the game at all. Sheahan is a part of that. I also agree that sure it was a critical play, and if we were in the playoffs right after the season ended and guys were firing on all cylinders I might be less inclined to be forgiving. But given the huge layoff and jump right into super intense post season I just can't take one single mistake that didn't even put the team down and point to it as the reason for losing especially when the player who made it helped prevent PP goals for almost an entire period.

Maybe. Buckner was responsible for getting some outs too before he let the ball go through him though. ;)
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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But initial mistakes happen often in a defensive zone setting. If the other guys on the ice are locked in, they do their job properly and the team can get out of it without any damage. So to excuse Kassian for his role on goal 3 is insane. It’s not Sheahan’s fault, it’s Sheahan and Kassian both, and Sheahan isn’t more at fault just because his mistake came first. It’s a team sport, and every player on the ice is going to have a tough moment - the ones that result in goals against more often are when the rest of the team doesn’t respond adequately. It’s not like Sheahan coughed up the puck for a breakaway or something - the situation wasn’t dire when the Blackhawks got the puck back if everyone else does their job.

Well to be fair I have mentioned both Kassian and Nurse in this thread too as playing a part in the loss. Just that Sheahan was the catalyst. ;)
 

CantHaveTkachev

Legends
Nov 30, 2004
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That's like saying Buckner isn't to blame because the pitcher should have struck out the batter instead of allowing any contact at all. Sure, you can technically blame the other players, but the critical mistake was made by one player.
the game was tied when Buckner made the error, meaning a pitcher blew the Red Sox lead...it's way before my time but who's the pitcher that gave up the lead?

point is, no one player should be singled out
 

CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
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I'm going to say a hot take that I know at least Drivesaitl might agree with.

This team is missing Gagner and trading him away (even if you like AA) has negatively impacted us. Dude loved being an Oiler, was clearly loved in the locker room and the energy he brought seemed infectious and it helped the team get going. Even if his level of play wasn't the best what he brought to the team is clearly missing now

I think we would be doing much better with Gagner here.
 

McOilers97

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Jan 10, 2012
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Well to be fair I have mentioned both Kassian and Nurse in this thread too as playing a part in the loss. Just that Sheahan was the catalyst. ;)

But I can't reconcile how partial blame for 1 out 4 goals against equals "he cost them the game". The rational way to look at this is that several players on this team cost them the game collectively over the course of the 60 minutes - "death by a thousand cuts" so to speak.
 
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GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
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Maybe. Buckner was responsible for getting some outs too before he let the ball go through him though. ;)
I don't think you'll find a single teammate of Buckner who would tell you he single handed lost it all for them.

Fans are the only ones who think this way.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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the game was tied when Buckner made the error, meaning a pitcher blew the Red Sox lead...it's way before my time but who's the pitcher that gave up the lead?

point is, no one player should be singled out

No one remembers the pitcher who gave up the lead. They remember Buckner.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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But I can't reconcile how partial blame for 1 out 4 goals against equals "he cost them the game". The rational way to look at this is that several players on this team cost them the game collectively over the course of the 60 minutes - "death by a thousand cuts" so to speak.

Except we were bandaging our thousand cuts until one player used a hacksaw. ;)
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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I don't think you'll find a single teammate of Buckner who would tell you he single handed lost it all for them.

Fans are the only ones who think this way.

No teammate is going to publicly shame him. But I would bet that at least one of them is thinking about his play today.
 

McOilers97

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No one remembers the pitcher who gave up the lead. They remember Buckner.

It's not about who people remember. You have to look at this more holistically over the course of 60 minutes/ 9 innings whatever the sport may be. We're not ESPN looking to attract eyeballs by blowing one play out of proportion.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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It's not about who people remember. You have to look at this more holistically over the course of 60 minutes/ 9 innings whatever the sport may be. We're not ESPN looking to attract eyeballs by blowing one play out of proportion.

It's the nature of pro sports. Mistakes are made by players. Some mistakes are bigger and more consequential than others. I'm sure Sheahan is a nice guy, but it doesn't change what he did last night. It's unfortunate for him, but if I'm him I would own up to it and take responsibility for it in the locker room.
 

McOilers97

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It's the nature of pro sports. Mistakes are made by players. Some mistakes are bigger and more consequential than others. I'm sure Sheahan is a nice guy, but it doesn't change what he did last night.

Except that nobody else feels the way that you do about it being Sheahan's fault... You're the only person that has tried to scapegoat Sheahan since last night from what I've seen.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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Except that nobody else feels the way that you do about it being Sheahan's fault... You're the only person that has tried to scapegoat Sheahan since last night from what I've seen.

There are others. Maybe not as vocal about it, but there are others.

- space321 or whatever his username is
- Some of the posters who liked my posts about Sheahan in this thread
- I think McDnicks agrees that Sheahan was a major factor in the loss
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
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That's like saying Buckner isn't to blame because the pitcher should have struck out the batter instead of allowing any contact at all. Sure, you can technically blame the other players, but the critical mistake was made by one player.

But its not baseball where it is easier to assess responsibilities. Though in the case of Buckner, one can look at their manager who chose to keep Billy Buck in the game instead of his usual pattern of removing this player in late game situations for a stronger defensive replacement. Fact Buckner was playing on one leg made this coaching decision even more head scratching. But the team still had a game seven to recover and did not.

You compared Sheahan's situation to Steve Smith in 1986. Except that team, arguably the greatest ever assembled, had about ten minutes to get the goal back and couldn't get it done. Every Oiler to a man from Gretzky and Fuhr on down placed accountability on the team for losing that game. No-one uses a loser mentality to blame it on one player in a team game.

As a game that is played at higher speed than any other and a high degree of chaos, it is shortsighted to narrowcast down to Sheahan's situation as the defining point in an erratic game that featured exceptional number of penalties, erratic play throughout the lineup, and miscues by several players on the actual play itself ending with a garbage goal. The people that coach and play this game at elite levels would never pin that loss last night on a singular play as how you have described it. I get your frustration and we all feel it as this Oilers failed to carry the momentum of game two to last night's critical game. But collectively this team was flat and broke down in every area with exception of penalty kill, of which Sheahan had a role.
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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It's the nature of pro sports. Mistakes are made by players. Some mistakes are bigger and more consequential than others. I'm sure Sheahan is a nice guy, but it doesn't change what he did last night. It's unfortunate for him, but if I'm him I would own up to it and take responsibility for it in the locker room.
How do you he didn't?
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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But its not baseball where it is easier to assess responsibilities. Though in the case of Buckner, one can look at their manager who chose to keep Billy Buck in the game instead of his usual pattern of removing this player in late game situations for a stronger defensive replacement. Fact Buckner was playing on one leg made this coaching decision even more head scratching.

You compared Sheahan's situation to Steve Smith in 1986. Except that team, arguably the greatest ever assembled, had about ten minutes to get the goal back and couldn't get it done. Every Oiler to a man from Gretzky and Fuhr on down placed accountability on the team for losing that game. No-one uses a loser mentality to blame it on one player in a team game.

As a game that is played at higher speed than any other and a high degree of chaos, it is shortsighted to narrowcast down to Sheahan's situation as the defining point in an erratic game that featured exceptional number of penalties, erratic play throughout the lineup, and miscues by several players on the actual play itself ending with a garbage goal. The people that coach and play this game at elite levels would never pin that loss last night on a singular play as how you have described it. I get your frustration and we all feel it as this Oilers failed to carry the momentum of game two to last night's critical game. But collectively this team was flat and broke down in every area with exception of penalty kill, of which Sheahan had a role.

What players say publicly and what they think privately are two different things. Can you tell me with confidence that not one single player on the Oilers is thinking (or thought) about the play that Sheahan made?

It’s pro sports. Defining moments happen. Blaming every loss on the entire team is the politically correct and cliche way to do it because it’s a “team sport.” But sometimes one play made by one player defines the game, win or lose.
 

FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
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I'm going to say a hot take that I know at least Drivesaitl might agree with.

This team is missing Gagner and trading him away (even if you like AA) has negatively impacted us. Dude loved being an Oiler, was clearly loved in the locker room and the energy he brought seemed infectious and it helped the team get going. Even if his level of play wasn't the best what he brought to the team is clearly missing now

I think we would be doing much better with Gagner here.

I really dont think Gagner would had much impact but we will never know. I dont think we would of been worse off (probably better in terms of assets because for whatever reason AA just hasnt fit in here) even though I understand what Holland was trying to do. I think Gagner would be good in the locker room, but I dont think he would be playing so I dont really know how you measure that impact.
 

LTIR

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Nov 8, 2013
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Boys I don’t care about the screwjob hand the league and refs have dealt this team because I believe in this squad and I think we are going to see a dominant win tonight on our way to the CUP!
But...we dont play tonight :/
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
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Vancouver
What players say publicly and what they think privately are two different things. Can you tell me with confidence that not one single player on the Oilers is thinking (or thought) about the play that Sheahan made?

It’s pro sports. Defining moments happen. Blaming every loss on the entire team is the politically correct and cliche way to do it because it’s a “team sport.” But sometimes one play made by one player defines the game, win or lose.

It's loser thinking. To scapegoat a teammate especially in a game and situation where there a ton of failed moments and poor decisions that collectively led to the loss. The difference to athletes is that they're in the games and the lockerrooms and play collectively to win games. I think that has been a great strength of Tippett in building a sense of team, brotherhood and resiliency. Pro athletes take mistakes in stride, knowing their own play isn't perfect, and why we get the cliche about parking a game and looking ahead. Anyone pro athlete in a team sport that outs a teammate and scapegoats those he or she goes into battle with will not survive long. There is no infallible athlete or person. Play as a team, win or lose as a team. Simple but fundamental premise if you're going to play a team sport. But essential when you are an elite athlete. Loser thinking won't cut it when you've beat Darwinism, and the thousands upon thousands that play said team sport, to make it to the peak.

EDIT: on the play you've fixated on, we see how awful Ethan Bear feels at his own accountability on the fluke goal given up. He's got two reasons to be pissed at himself. Shit happens, bad breakdowns on several fronts. But hardly defining on a sloppy, penalty filled game which had many turning points.
 

Three On Zero

Deranged Oreo Dolphin Parking Instructor
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Oct 9, 2012
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Yeah, there is zero chance that they already did the lottery pick before play ins started. If the information ever got out somehow it would completely throw the integrity of the play ins into question. ZERO CHANCE this occurred.
I thought that at first, then I stepped back and remembered it was the NHL so who knows
 

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