There is a good chance that he'd want to test the market and in that case, absolutely. If he wants to sign here for a reasonable contract though, I think we're still looking good into the next draft. We probably getting an early first, an early second and another second, depending on where the Isles might end up. We still have youngsters in development leagues that have the potential to be really good besides the one on the team already making good cases for themselves... I feel like we'll need a Nyquist either way but we either hold on to the one we have, trade for one in the future or overpay for one on the market... I like the one we have.
GDT: Oilers at Red Wings 7:00 EST
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There is a good chance that he'd want to test the market and in that case, absolutely. If he wants to sign here for a reasonable contract though, I think we're still looking good into the next draft. We probably getting an early first, an early second and another second, depending on where the Isles might end up. We still have youngsters in development leagues that have the potential to be really good besides the one on the team already making good cases for themselves... I feel like we'll need a Nyquist either way but we either hold on to the one we have, trade for one in the future or overpay for one on the market... I like the one we have.
Sorry, it's not really loyalty when I think the player is quite simply good. He was put on a line with Ras and De La Rose and it was quite obvious he was the engine of that line. Short of having complete package type of players, which are rare and expensive, you need guys with different skill sets for different things. We have a shortage of Nyquists type...
So you think we should only trade him to a non-contender if we trade him.
The odds are it turns into nothing? What are the odds the team is a contender within 5 years with Nyquist on the roster nearing 35 years old? I like the odds of a 23 year old top 31 draft pick to impacting the team more, personally.
How do we know he wants to sign on for another 3-5 years through this rebuild, anyway? If he goes to UFA and leaves for nothing that's real bad. But in all of these we need to remember he has to waive to leave. We could get to the TDL and he could waive everything and in that case it would be understandable.
Essentially. I was just trying to think of a way we could maybe add that guy to replace Nyquist in the lineup while also getting that first rounder we're hoping for in a Nyquist trade. I'm okay taking a cap dump if we're getting the right price for it. A 1st or quality youngster would do it for me (think when Chicago was having to ship out Terevainen and Leddy or Boston had to dump Boychuck). As long as the dump doesn't negatively effect the work to bring in prospects and what not, anyway.
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Killorn is a decent player, but I'd rather trade Nyquist for a late 1st, then resign Nyquist who is better overall & a better playmaker, which we desperately need. Plus we know he already fits our team/culture/system etc. Outside of 2 decent playoffs, Killorn is very pedestrian on the offensive #'s. Career high 47 pts. on a PowerHouse TBL team, + 2 more 40 pt. seasons. Signed for 4 more years after this one.
newfy
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The wings need 18 and 19 year old, cost controlled talent. If you can get a first for a guy like Nyquist you take it and run. Hes a solid top 6 player but in reality hes a soft, 50 point winger who will be too old to contribute much by the time the wings are good again. I trade Nyquist for the chance at what Veleno could be in 5 years time every single time and dont think twice. Having another first round calibre prospect also gives a little more leeway for if guys bust.
Nyquist is solid but you take a first for him every time and dont think about it when youre rebuilding
It's doubtful that someone will give up a relatively high pick for him to start. Then you have to consider that he does provide value to our growing players. Then there's a just the fact that the odds of him being an effective player are greater than the pick we get for him even panning as an NHL player to begin with. Bird in hand better than two in the bush, sort of thing.
A lot of it depends on what his intentions are. Will he be willing to sign a reasonable contract? Better yet, will he without a NTC attached to it? Many variables for sure but if reasonable enough, year, I rather we keep him. We have a need for what he brings and he is here now and will be good for the foreseeable future.
We have so much salary dropping like dominoes over the next several years that I don't get the obsession with constantly needing to save here. We don't lack grit at this point and we have plenty in the pipeline. We also have quite a few youngsters coming up as well besides the ones that are in the lineup already. Just taking the last game, Nyquist did wonders for Ras and DLR playing on the line with them... I kind of think we could use more of that now and over the next few years, not less.
If Tampa is willing to do something like that, we might as well just ship a 7th or something for Callahan and a 1st? (Thats a really high price just to unload a 1 year contract though) Not a fan of swapping Killorn for Nyquist at all either.
I wasn't sure we could pull a first just to take Callahan off their hands. From what I gather from Bolts fans they hope to move two salaries, so I figured guaranteeing them a killorn replacement for at least the playoffs would be enough to bump whatever pick was required to take Callahan up to a first. If we could just deal some sort of midround pick for Cally and still get a first while also trading Nyquist somewhere else (preferably also for a first), yeah, I'd be all over that.
newfy
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We dont have plenty in the pipe line. The wings prospect pool is just starting to look great now but still needs work. A lot of those players are going to bust. Nyquist looks good but hes a 50 point, soft winger that isnt cost controlled. You want to keep control of salary for when big name difference makers come around and want to be paid 10 million.
Nyquist is a solid player. By the trade deadline Ras will have 60 games experience and shouldnt need a guy like Nyquist. And really hes played well, but Nyquist is playing above th elevel hes played at for the last 3 seasons. Its great that he can help Ras grow some, but come dead line time getting another first round calibre prospect is more beneficial to the team long term.
Would you rather have a mid 30 year old Nyquist when the wings are competing for the cup or a 24 year old Kasperi Kapanen thats young, hungry and skilled? I take Kapanen every time
ArGarBarGar
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Will we really get that much out of Nyquist at the deadline? I know we got a major boon from Tatar but I can't imagine we will be able to strike gold in a trade twice in two years.
In that case, I would still rather keep Nyquist and just acquire a first for taking on Callahan. Not sure where'd he fit though? Does he have a NMC or something? I mean, why not waive the guy?
Again, there are plenty of players coming off the books. There's plenty of cap to use for future star signings but if you constantly want to ship out every player that's due for pay, who the hell are the stars going to play with to even become stars?
I should have been clearer that we have plenty of grit in the pipeline and then (which I also failed to separate, have some players projecting to be scorers) Ras has a specific skill set but playmaker he is not. (I have yet to see it) Mantha too, btw... We already have a probably very high first and 2 2nds, I'm not too worried being deprived of youth injections in the upcoming draft.
Counting chickens before the eggs hatch here. On the flip-side, would you rather have a 23 year old Brendan Gaunce or a 35 year old Nyquist because this scenario is more likely. And we still need to account for the years we are not competing. I'd think we'd want our team projection to go up year after year, not down. I also remember a mid-30s half-injured Zetterberg being more effective in the playoffs than a mid-20s Nyquist as well... Sorry, youth isn't all it's made out to be.
He has some sort of NTC/NMC. I don't think he can be waived, and he has a list of teams he can be traded to. I figured that would be the biggest issue, as I assume the wings would be on his no-trade list. I saw the wings then just burying him on the third or fourth line (or the pressbox) until he could be moved for some sort of junk pick at the following deadline to some team looking for vet depth.
I don't think Callahan will require a 1st to be moved, though. I'd prefer that deal, too, but to get a 1st I think we'd have to sweeten the pot somehow.
newfy
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Its not about wanting to ship out every player thats due for pay, its that players that can be moved as rentals have value to teams at the deadline and they will give up assets for them. The guys being drafted and entering the league now will get to play with guys like Larkin and Bertuzzi who now have experience under their belts, a 50 point winger like nyquist isnt worth keeping around.
I'm not counting any chickens, in fact its the opposite. They need to use these guys like Daley and Nyquist who have value at the deadline to acquire lots of picks because prospects bust all the time. The odds of Veleno not being a stud are decent, he could never make the NHL. The odds of Veleno, a second first rounder this year, the Islanders 2nd rounder this year and Ottawas 2nd from last year becomes a lot lower. They need more lottery tickets to throw in the raffle.
They're in the middle of a rebuild and they've added exactly one extra 1st rounder to this point. They need to move the guys like Nyquist because trading scrap players wont get high picks in return. I'll take the risk of a pick becoming a Brenda Gaunce because if you get a few the chances are one of them wont be.
And honestly, I think youre overrating Nyquists impact because of how hes playing right now. He was really good when he came into the league but hes still only broken 50 points once in his career and that was 3 or 4 years ago. If he hasnt broken 50 points since he was ~24, whats he going to be like in 4 or 5 years? I doubt he improves. Hes also always played extremely soft in the playoffs. It a perfect storm for him to get traded this year. The wings are rebuilding so no one will question why theyre moving him, hes pumping up his value being productive well above career norms and the draft is looking solid.
I think youre in the 1%-2% of people who want to keep him if the return is a first rounder
Is Callahan even serviceable these days? Overall, even for a season, he's just not the type of player we need I think. Too much grit and not enough finesse..
He'd be Bickell. You're taking him to get the high pick/whatever asset is coming with him. As I said, I did the Killorn thing because I knew it fit some needs I've seen Bolts fans talking about and it fit with the idea of making sure we have either Nyquist or a Nyquist replacement.
Yeah, at the end of the day, you also risk squandering Larkin's and everyone else' because anyone who isn't a top notch star needs to be used to roll the dice once more... At the end of the day, you giving away a good player for a chance. The very chance that you hope to acquire a good player with. And the only reasoning behind it is youth, when in the next 5 years, you'll still have plenty of shots to get another top player while keeping the one you have...
To put it another way, you have a choice of two wheels to spin. One gives you a 90% chance of walking away with 500k and 10% with nothing. The other wheel gives you a 10% chance of 1 mil, and a 20% chance of 500K and 70% of nothing at all. Which wheel do you go for?
newfy
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Ya the difference with your analogy is that 1 mill is still useful at 35. Nyquist has been a mediocre 2nd line winger for 3 years now, he plays soft and this is the first time hes been productive since his sophomore season. You dont keep giving players away and keep rolling the dice but you absolutely move a guy who isnt needed/involved in the teams future plans. You think if it was 4 years from now and the wings were looking like contenders that I would trade Nyquist? Not likely. But the cycle of getting ood again starts by getting value out of aging assets that have value to teams ready to contend now that arent valuable to Detroit when theyll be competitive again.
Once the team starts getting good again you stop trading guys, right now theyre bottoming out. It is absolutey the time to get value for a second line winger who is inflating his value putting up career numbers. Dont know how you could even think your idea is a good one honestly
Gniwder
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Ever follow a team in a rebuild? I'm also a Caps fan.
Know how many players have been with the Caps longer than Ovy? None. You build around the star. Don't get too attached to any player. (Kenny is way too attached to rebuild a team. He needs to leave.)
The cap space will be needed to fill the gaps, because UFAs get overpaid. We have no idea where the gaps will be because it depends on how the kids develop and which kids actually make the show. I'd rather have the cap space than Nyquist. We may need the cap space to sign a goalie or defensemen. The Caps picked up 2 in UFA to build their team, Wings are probably going to be in a similar situation in the future.
Yeah, just a few years ago we lacked a puck-moving right handed defenseman. We don't have many guys who are good at distributing the puck atm and even with Nyquist in the lineup, I'd argue we still lack in this department. Given that just about every young forward we have is a shoot first kind of player, I'd think people be more willing to recognise the need here. Whatever you call mediocre, he is still a top 6 winger and outside of Larkin, just about the only guy that has the sense to suck in opposind dman, open up a lane and ship off a pass. Having a playmaker play with a shooter has always bern a wise move to have. He's not 23? What does that have to do with the fact he can pass the puck well when others can't? Trying to align everyone simply by age is the same as arguing that Toronto should have passed up on Tavares because he eoesn't fit the demographic. As cap space, who's to say Nyquist or someone else can't be moved if it needed to come to that? And again, counting the chickens before the eggs hatch, you already spending salary on players you don't have and want to clear the space with the players you actually do have. As it stands though, I tend to think a line of Ras, Mantha and Nyquist would do better than a line of AA, Ras and Mantha. Not because Nyquist is necessarily better but because there's more complimentary skill that go into that line.
I prefered Dobson myself but hard to be pissed about it. It will suck if it ultimately becomes the wrong choice but conventional wisdom seem to indicate that Zadina becomes the better player.
If Washington didn't have Backstrom pan out, I seriously doubt getting a playmaker for Ovi, even one thats on the wrong side of 30 would have been a bad move for the Caps. A need is a need, regardless if you are tebuilding or not. And again, Nyquist or whomeven can be often moved to address other needs, like cap space. That's besides the fact that our grinders will be up with their contracts when raises are due. Kronwall comes off. As does Daley and Green. Nielsen comes off as well in a few years and the cap projects to go up as well. I dont see a doomsday ahead, I just dont.
