GDT: Oilers at Red Wings 7:00 EST

[newfy]

Yeah, just a few years ago we lacked a puck-moving right handed defenseman. We don't have many guys who are good at distributing the puck atm and even with Nyquist in the lineup, I'd argue we still lack in this department. Given that just about every young forward we have is a shoot first kind of player, I'd think people be more willing to recognise the need here. Whatever you call mediocre, he is still a top 6 winger and outside of Larkin, just about the only guy that has the sense to suck in opposind dman, open up a lane and ship off a pass. Having a playmaker play with a shooter has always bern a wise move to have. He's not 23? What does that have to do with the fact he can pass the puck well when others can't? Trying to align everyone simply by age is the same as arguing that Toronto should have passed up on Tavares because he eoesn't fit the demographic. As cap space, who's to say Nyquist or someone else can't be moved if it needed to come to that? And again, counting the chickens before the eggs hatch, you already spending salary on players you don't have and want to clear the space with the players you actually do have. As it stands though, I tend to think a line of Ras, Mantha and Nyquist would do better than a line of AA, Ras and Mantha. Not because Nyquist is necessarily better but because there's more complimentary skill that go into that line.

You cant separate bottoming out with ready to compete. When the wings are ready to compete they can add another winger like Nyquist if one of their draft picks dont pan out. Same with the Leafs with Tavares, they added him once they had a top pair dman, an elite first line center and at least one other top line stud forward. They waited until they were ready to be competitive with good young guys and then top free agents will want to join the team. This happened with them even with Marleau as well.

Its called planning for the future. You save cap space and get an asset for a guy like Nyquist because hes not good enough to build around but good enough to have value at the deadline. Your idea is to half ass the rebuild, and not get assets for expiring contracts that wont be useful when Larkins core is ready to compete. That extra first rounder might not pan out, but maybe can be used in a trade for a top dman while theyre still a prospect. You think anyone is going to want Nyquist in a package for a top guy? 33 year old, small, soft wingers dont have value and really wont have value to the wings when theyre ready to compete.

And yes a few years ago the wings lacked a right handed puck moving dman. What has having Green really done in the long run for the wings while theyre not ready to compete? I dont mind having him here but would have rather gotten assets for him at last years deadline if they could've. Now hes going to be older, have less value, and when the wings are good again he will be irrelevant to the team contending again

 

[Invictus12]

You cant separate bottoming out with ready to compete. When the wings are ready to compete they can add another winger like Nyquist if one of their draft picks dont pan out. Same with the Leafs with Tavares, they added him once they had a top pair dman, an elite first line center and at least one other top line stud forward. They waited until they were ready to be competitive with good young guys and then top free agents will want to join the team. This happened with them even with Marleau as well.

Its called planning for the future. You save cap space and get an asset for a guy like Nyquist because hes not good enough to build around but good enough to have value at the deadline. Your idea is to half ass the rebuild, and not get assets for expiring contracts that wont be useful when Larkins core is ready to compete. That extra first rounder might not pan out, but maybe can be used in a trade for a top dman while theyre still a prospect. You think anyone is going to want Nyquist in a package for a top guy? 33 year old, small, soft wingers dont have value and really wont have value to the wings when theyre ready to compete.

And yes a few years ago the wings lacked a right handed puck moving dman. What has having Green really done in the long run for the wings while theyre not ready to compete? I dont mind having him here but would have rather gotten assets for him at last years deadline if they could've. Now hes going to be older, have less value, and when the wings are good again he will be irrelevant to the team contending again

While you do wait to become competitive, who's going to be passing the puck to the likes of Ras, Zadina, (possibly) Mantha, Bert? And as a result, when they're not producing, where does that put them? Trade baits as well? If you plan for the future by being completely oblivious to the present, all you'll ever do is plan for the future. Oh and good wingers aren't all that easy to come by either and odds are, you'll end up spending more for a rental winger down the line. Both in yearly cap space and/or the amount it would take to land one. Odds are, he's not going to be young either. The only plus to it, is that his (whomever that is) recent track record would make for a clearer picture. However, and I can't stress this enough, we need good passers for the kids we have now and only other player in the pipeline is currently Veleno, whom, you yourself will admit isn't a sure thing.

 

[newfy]

While you do wait to become competitive, who's going to be passing the puck to the likes of Ras, Zadina, (possibly) Mantha, Bert? And as a result, when they're not producing, where does that put them? Trade baits as well? If you plan for the future by being completely oblivious to the present, all you'll ever do is plan for the future. Oh and good wingers aren't all that easy to come by either and odds are, you'll end up spending more for a rental winger down the line. Both in yearly cap space and/or the amount it would take to land one. Odds are, he's not going to be young either. The only plus to it, is that his (whomever that is) recent track record would make for a clearer picture. However, and I can't stress this enough, we need good passers for the kids we have now and only other player in the pipeline is currently Veleno, whom, you yourself will admit isn't a sure thing.

Well theyll have 60 more games this season with Nyquist. By the time a guy like Zadina is playing with the wings guys like Larkin wont be rookies anymore, neither will Cholowski, or Bertuzzi, Hronek will have experience, Green will still be on the back end. Nyquist isnt going to sign cheap after this season, you take a chance at a young first round calibre player over him every day. We dont need good passers for a lot of the kids the wings will be adding. They have Larkin, theyre going to be adding one of Hughes, Dach, Cozens, Kakko or someone similar this year that are high end prospects that dont need to rely on a Nyquist to get them the puck.

Adding high end prospects all on a team with each other is going to end up with better passers than a 33 year old Nyquist. I'm done with this conversation anyways, youre in a huge minority on this one. If he waives his NTC and the wings can get a first rounder for him, hes gone instantly because the wings know with the talent theyre adding they dont need to over pay a UFA 50 point winger to get competitive again.

 

[Invictus12]

Well theyll have 60 more games this season with Nyquist. By the time a guy like Zadina is playing with the wings guys like Larkin wont be rookies anymore, neither will Cholowski, or Bertuzzi, Hronek will have experience, Green will still be on the back end. Nyquist isnt going to sign cheap after this season, you take a chance at a young first round calibre player over him every day. We dont need good passers for a lot of the kids the wings will be adding. They have Larkin, theyre going to be adding one of Hughes, Dach, Cozens, Kakko or someone similar this year that are high end prospects that dont need to rely on a Nyquist to get them the puck.

Adding high end prospects all on a team with each other is going to end up with better passers than a 33 year old Nyquist. I'm done with this conversation anyways, youre in a huge minority on this one. If he waives his NTC and the wings can get a first rounder for him, hes gone instantly because the wings know with the talent theyre adding they dont need to over pay a UFA 50 point winger to get competitive again.

Being in minority means very little to me. 'A person is smart, people are stupid' sort of thing is too common of a reality. You claim to be getting a high-end prospect for Nyquist but you know very well that it's very unlikely it plays out that way. Out current first is the likely scenario that we get one. And again, I would welcome another playmaker on the team. You're proposing to deliberately create another hole we'd need to fill. At the end of the day, Ras and Zadina and Mantha can have 500 games and that won't make them puck distributors any more than Ericsson has been with all the games under his belt.

I dont see a plan for the future here, more like lust for another shiny pick that we can pretend is a world beater. The fact that the case is highly unlikely doesn't seem to factor in. Oh and we have plenty of pieces to still move down the line. Dalry, Green.m

 

[odin1981]

McIsaac has the same amount of points as Dobson, but with 5 less games played

Dobson's team had the majority of them graduate and move on. They are currently terrible and he is waiting for a trade to a contender once the school period of the no move aspect of the chl ends.

And even with the above mentioned playing essentially by himself at the moment he is still ppg.