Post-Game Talk: Oilers 2 - Canucks 1 (OT) || Shooter Tutor Time

[y2kcanucks]

Baertsch made a good pass but Bartkowski scored the goal and nobody else was involved, good shot by him. I don't know where Virtanen got his scoring chances, did he even have 2 shots? He probably did and his shots were probably from the blue-line without a screen and power. He can't generate offence, he needs to be able to do if he wants to be more than a 4th liner. Dorsett is more useful because he cycles well and can play PK/defence. Corsi is meaning less, too many variables, and Muzzin is the most useful defenceman in the league according to that bush league stat. Doesn't tell you where the shot came from, where it was shot, etc. Virtanen is probably #1 on that stat since he carelessly shoots.

So the fact that you didn't know that Virtanen even had 2 shots (he had 3) tells me you weren't really watching that line play too closely. He generated more scoring chances than Henrik Sedin in half the ice-time, but hey, let's keep him on the 4th line right?

 

[Pip]

A very boring game by two bottom feeding teams.

I thought the game was rather exciting. Not a lot of whistles and some good back and forth play as the game went on.

 

[Peen]

I thought the game was rather exciting. Not a lot of whistles and some good back and forth play as the game went on.

Yep.

Y2kcanucks you're forcing your agenda on virtanen a bit here.

 

[mathonwy]

I thought the game was rather exciting. Not a lot of whistles and some good back and forth play as the game went on.

The two teams were trying very hard and Edmonton actually played quite well defensively. I fell asleep half way through but I didn't notice too many out numbered chances either way.

I still don't get why WD doesn't put Vrbata on the top line permanently. We already know from last year that Dank is now more of a passer than a shooter so ... umm.. lets give the twins a trigger man?

I ask myself what would AV do and AV would do this. Torts would also do this. Crawford would do this. So... wtf?

 

[y2kcanucks]

- When you have the puck in the offensive zone, there is a high chance for scoring opportunities and virtually no chance for goals against.

- When you don't have the puck in the defensive zone, there is a high chance for scoring opportunities against and virtually no chance for goals for.

I really don't understand why you'd even attempt to argue that.

I don't even understand why you'd even attempt to argue the actual stats? It's a fact that Virtanen generated 2 scoring chances, which was only surpassed by Daniel, Vrbata, and Edler tonight. In fact, when you look at Virtanen's limited play, he's tied for 3rd on the team in scoring chances +/- with Henrik Sedin, is ranked 4th on the team in scoring chances per 60 (among forwards), while having the lowest scoring chances against per 60.

Ignore the facts if you want, but Virtanen has been just fine.

 

[Peen]

Virtanen has played like 25 minutes this season lol

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yep.

Y2kcanucks you're forcing your agenda on virtanen a bit here.

Not at all. People are forcing an anti-Virtanen agenda because they're still upset we didn't take a soft Nylander or Ehlers. In the context of tonight's game, Virtanen had a very solid game and deserved more ice-time than he was given. That entire kid line played well, with the exception of Horvat who has struggled. Virtanen and Baertschi, despite a struggling C, managed to put up 4 scoring chances between them and that line generated our only goal!

But hey, if people don't like a line that generates goals and scoring chances I don't know what people expect. Maybe a line that can skate all fancy in the corner holding on to the puck but not actually doing anything, but that's certainly not the type of hockey I want to see.

 

[WTG]

Virtanen has played like 25 minutes this season lol

And preformed well in those 25 minutes.

Well enough to warrant more ice time.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Virtanen has played like 25 minutes this season lol

Because our coach is an idiot. He's played effectively in those 25 minutes and deserves more ice-time.

 

[F A N]

I think scoring goals is more important than the number of scoring chances. Generating scoring chances is more important than shots on net. So far this season, Nick Bonino must really be passing the puck well as the advanced stats show he's "driving possession" but in 5 games he has 6 shots on net and 0 points. In 3 of the games he has zero shots. Sutter has 2 goals 5 points and 17 shots in 6 games yet advanced stats show he's doing a poor job of "driving possession."

 

[VanillaCoke]

Virtanen was awesome.
If he got real minutes to get into the game i imagine hed be even better

 

[Ozone]

Virtanen has played like 25 minutes this season lol

True, but like many rookies playing in the NHL this year, I'd bet his numbers would be increased with expected increased playing time.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I have a feeling we havn't seen the last of Vey this season. WD will get his true love back in the lineup.

Utica has scored 1 goal in 2 games this season. They've allowed 4. Vey has been on the ice for all 4 goals against.

 

[Peen]

Because our coach is an idiot. He's played effectively in those 25 minutes and deserves more ice-time.

meh

he has played OK in those 25 minutes. i don't like looking at fancy stats for one game. i mean, he's played the same amount of minutes this season as edler plays in one game - i don't think it's right to take fancy stats and say "he's our second best player"

i think we need to look at the situation - he had i believe 7:30 of ice time over the first 30 minutes against the kings in the debut game - once the game locked up, he played less.

i didn't really agree with the lines we went with against STL, but we should have won that game. blew chances, stupid mistakes on D.

and today, horvat was bad. if horvat is playing bad, it's hard to put trust in a line that has two fly by wingers on D. that being said, willie should have realized that virtanen actually had his motor going today in the defensive zone. while he was out of position, he was getting back into the d zone, making an effort to defend.

so i think willie has handled him fine in 2/3 games he's played, and i don't think anyone warranted being taken out for him to be put in for the first three games.

 

[Ozone]

I think it's fair to say that last year, Horvat excelled not because of WD, but in spite of him.

I also think it's fair to say our rookies this year, might do the same.

 

[CherryToke]

I don't really like listening to Jeff Patterson.. like at all.. but he's the only one that questions WD's bizarre decisions in the post game interviews. I respect him for that. good man. the Media needs to get on this guy every day until he wakes the f*** up.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I think scoring goals is more important than the number of scoring chances. Generating scoring chances is more important than shots on net. So far this season, Nick Bonino must really be passing the puck well as the advanced stats show he's "driving possession" but in 5 games he has 6 shots on net and 0 points. In 3 of the games he has zero shots. Sutter has 2 goals 5 points and 17 shots in 6 games yet advanced stats show he's doing a poor job of "driving possession."

The CORSI stats are used to debunk the myth that the kid line was hemmed in the defensive zone most of the time.

I value goals the most, but like to use scoring chances as an indicator of potential goals. If a player is generating a ton of scoring chances then it's likely only a matter of time before those chances are converted. If a player isn't generating scoring chances then how do you expect him to score?

Based on that, Virtanen and Baertschi had good games tonight and deserved more ice time to see what they could do.

 

[Get North]

So the fact that you didn't know that Virtanen even had 2 shots (he had 3) tells me you weren't really watching that line play too closely. He generated more scoring chances than Henrik Sedin in half the ice-time, but hey, let's keep him on the 4th line right?

I'm sure he had shots but stopping up and letting a shot go isn't useful. Shots below the hashmarks are good but the ones where he stops and shoots with no screen is a waste of possession. He didn't show much goal scoring ability which is what he has to show. Baertschi had a decent shot too. I know they had shots but I'm talking about creating plays on the rush or below the dots and getting it to the net or taking it there. They were on the outside a lot, lots of shots but still on the perimeter.

Bartkowski himself said that the goal wouldn't have happened if Horvat wasn't rushing the net.



He recorded 3 shots....



Dorsett and Virtanen recorded the same amount of shots. That is even with Virtanen playing half the amount of the games Dorsett played.

3 less hits in 3 games. With way less icetime.



Dorsett might be the most overrated defensive player in the league. He is not good defensively.



That's why you don't solely judge a player purely on their corsi. Corsi isn't even a good stat to evaluate defenseman. Use Fenwick.



Virtanen recorded 2 scoring chances.

That line got 1 high scoring chance and 4 scoring chances.

How did that line get 5 scoring chances, Virtanen barely got like 5 shifts. I'd like you to tell me when or how those plays developed because I can't remember much from that line other than being trapped in their own end twice and the goal. Virtanen was much better against St.Louis I'll say that, the shots he took then were much better, under the hashmarks are good shots. Stopping up and letting a shot go is an easy save and whistle. We aren't good on faceoffs so whistles aren't something we should want. The Bartkowski goal was mostly Baertschi, Horvat driving the net is typical Horvat and we all know how good he is. I thought Baertschi was better than Virtanen, doesn't mean he was all that good but Virtanen is showing no goal scoring ability, he can't even let a hard shot go that goes over the net at least.

I'm fine with Dorsett having less shots than Virtanen, Dorsett has quality ones when he does. That 4th line cycled well, played below the dots and created chances that way. Sustained zone time. Virtanen line had no sustained zone time, just shots off the rush other than the goal. Nobody got to the slot and took a shot, no powering to the net, just on the outside mostly.

People jump on "stats guys" for "not watching the game".

You clearly did not watch the game. Virtanen and Baertschi had multiple good chances. I'm not even a huge JV fan but come on.

Corsi is as useful as you want it to be. In general, if you're getting more shot attempts than your opponent, that's probably good. Players who can do that, are probably coming out ahead on goal differential. That's all it is.

I watched the full game, I don't remember Virtanen having a single scoring chance. They were hemmed in their own zone twice for 2 mins, they got a goal which was mostly Baertschi with a nice pass. Virtanen really didn't generate any sustained offensive zone time, one and done shots is the recipe for losses. You need zone time and I didn't see much from Virtanen.

 

[WTG]

I think scoring goals is more important than the number of scoring chances. Generating scoring chances is more important than shots on net. So far this season, Nick Bonino must really be passing the puck well as the advanced stats show he's "driving possession" but in 5 games he has 6 shots on net and 0 points. In 3 of the games he has zero shots. Sutter has 2 goals 5 points and 17 shots in 6 games yet advanced stats show he's doing a poor job of "driving possession."

What are you talking about? Sutter has been really good this year, and the stats show this.

 

[y2kcanucks]

meh

he has played OK in those 25 minutes. i don't like looking at fancy stats for one game. i mean, he's played the same amount of minutes this season as edler plays in one game - i don't think it's right to take fancy stats and say "he's our second best player"

i think we need to look at the situation - he had i believe 7:30 of ice time over the first 30 minutes against the kings in the debut game - once the game locked up, he played less.

i didn't really agree with the lines we went with against STL, but we should have won that game. blew chances, stupid mistakes on D.

and today, horvat was bad. if horvat is playing bad, it's hard to put trust in a line that has two fly by wingers on D. that being said, willie should have realized that virtanen actually had his motor going today in the defensive zone. while he was out of position, he was getting back into the d zone, making an effort to defend.

so i think willie has handled him fine in 2/3 games he's played, and i don't think anyone warranted being taken out for him to be put in for the first three games.

Meh.

So when the stats don't support your agenda let's throw em out.

If Horvat was the only player on that line struggling, and statistically and based on the eye test he was, then he should not have led in ice time among those three.

 

[Ozone]

I don't really like listening to Jeff Patterson.. like at all.. but he's the only one that questions WD's bizarre decisions in the post game interviews. I respect him for that. good man. the Media needs to get on this guy every day until he wakes the f*** up.

Yep. But, if they do that...they will not get the interviews and the good perks that Canucks management gives them. It's silly politics, but that's the way things work.

Good on JP though!

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm sure he had shots but stopping up and letting a shot go isn't useful. Shots below the hashmarks are good but the ones where he stops and shoots with no screen is a waste of possession. He didn't show much goal scoring ability which is what he has to show. Baertschi had a decent shot too. I know they had shots but I'm talking about creating plays on the rush or below the dots and getting it to the net or taking it there. They were on the outside a lot, lots of shots but still on the perimeter.

How did that line get 5 scoring chances, Virtanen barely got like 5 shifts. I'd like you to tell me when or how those plays developed because I can't remember much from that line other than being trapped in their own end twice and the goal. Virtanen was much better against St.Louis I'll say that, the shots he took then were much better, under the hashmarks are good shots. Stopping up and letting a shot go is an easy save and whistle. We aren't good on faceoffs so whistles aren't something we should want. The Bartkowski goal was mostly Baertschi, Horvat driving the net is typical Horvat and we all know how good he is. I thought Baertschi was better than Virtanen, doesn't mean he was all that good but Virtanen is showing no goal scoring ability, he can't even let a hard shot go that goes over the net at least.

I'm fine with Dorsett having less shots than Virtanen, Dorsett has quality ones when he does. That 4th line cycled well, played below the dots and created chances that way. Sustained zone time. Virtanen line had no sustained zone time, just shots off the rush other than the goal. Nobody got to the slot and took a shot, no powering to the net, just on the outside mostly.

I watched the full game, I don't remember Virtanen having a single scoring chance. They were hemmed in their own zone twice for 2 mins, they got a goal which was mostly Baertschi with a nice pass. Virtanen really didn't generate any sustained offensive zone time, one and done shots is the recipe for losses. You need zone time and I didn't see much from Virtanen.

Virtanen had 2 scoring chances, Baertschi had 2, and Horvat had 1. But just continue to ignore the stats to suit your argument. Oh yeah, that line GENERATED OUR ONLY GOAL.

Earlier you claimed you didn't even know Virtanen had more than 1 shot on goal, and now you're telling us how his shots went down?

 

[WTG]

How did that line get 5 scoring chances, Virtanen barely got like 5 shifts. I'd like you to tell me when or how those plays developed because I can't remember much from that line other than being trapped in their own end twice and the goal. Virtanen was much better against St.Louis I'll say that, the shots he took then were much better, under the hashmarks are good shots. Stopping up and letting a shot go is an easy save and whistle. We aren't good on faceoffs so whistles aren't something we should want. The Bartkowski goal was mostly Baertschi, Horvat driving the net is typical Horvat and we all know how good he is. I thought Baertschi was better than Virtanen, doesn't mean he was all that good but Virtanen is showing no goal scoring ability, he can't even let a hard shot go that goes over the net at least.

I'm fine with Dorsett having less shots than Virtanen, Dorsett has quality ones when he does. That 4th line cycled well, played below the dots and created chances that way. Sustained zone time. Virtanen line had no sustained zone time, just shots off the rush other than the goal. Nobody got to the slot and took a shot, no powering to the net, just on the outside mostly.

Rewatch the game

I'm not gonna do your research for you.

 

[Ozone]

I watched the full game, I don't remember Virtanen having a single scoring chance. They were hemmed in their own zone twice for 2 mins, they got a goal which was mostly Baertschi with a nice pass. Virtanen really didn't generate any sustained offensive zone time, one and done shots is the recipe for losses. You need zone time and I didn't see much from Virtanen.

This is another thing that concerns me: zone time.

If we were outscoring the opposing team normally, zone time probably would not be an issue.


Let's look at it another way: who would you put money on to outscore the other team, over the course of a whole year? The Kid line or the Fourth line.

 

[vanuck]

there's just too much emphasis on winning RIGHT f***ING NOW and not enough on like, making sure there's a team after aquaman sells it. f*** that guy, man

If it's true that Aqualini is looking to just pump up the team's value by continually demanding "win now" at the cost of the long-term... welp.

The coachif decisions make me shake my head and they have ever since WD has been hired.

Oh pretty much.