Speculation: Offseason Thread XVIII - Soon September & a new NYR member?

[kovazub94]

so klein and fast or lindy or one of the unproven prospects for a first pair dman.

uh huh, ok sure.....

you gotta give equal value to get same.

see: subban for weber deal

I meant Klein, Fast, Lindy AND one of prospects.

 

[darko]

Say what you want about McDonagh but BBKers brings up a valid point. McDonagh hits the free agency in 3 years time when he's going to be 30. What type of contract will he demand? 7/8 years @ 7-8 mill per? I love McDonagh but that contract is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Say what you want about McDonagh but BBKers brings up a valid point. McDonagh hits the free agency in 3 years time when he's going to be 30. What type of contract will he demand? 7/8 years @ 7-8 mill per? I love McDonagh but that contract is a tough pill to swallow.

Well if this whole retool goes to plan we should be competing right then

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Not sure anyone is saying that but there IS a timing to building a roster... To having all the parts contribute at once (no matter their age or cost). Really the only way to win a cup.

Discussing this isn't a crime.

Not sure it's realistic either but we can't talk Stralman every day right?

RIGHT?????????

Every Cup winning team has a couple of overpaid but still-contributing 30+ vets on the roster. It's hard to win with nothing but super young players. Vet leadership is starting to become underrated, due to the understandable obsession with being on the right money and age side of the cap.

Also - where is the official Anton Stralman commiseration thread? I'd love to see how long that lasts.

Hell, I'm still mad about the Zubov trade. Can we get a Zubov commiseration thread too?

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Anyone see the blue shirt banter article that recommends we try going 4 forwards and 1 dman to little our defense from sucking lol

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Obviously if this move were to be made it would be intended to pay dividends in 5 years or so, but moving McDonagh right now would be absolutely disastrous for our defense.

Our top pairing LHD would be Staal until Skjei is ready, which could take another year

Nobody even knows if Skjei is going to become a top pairing guy, most projections have him topping out as a 2nd pair guy. He's not going to be as good as McDonagh, which I think most people are expecting.

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

3 things.

sheltered/reduced minutes
injury free
no pp time

I have a feeling Girardi will manage to have a worse season than last season. The guy should not be in the NHL.

 

[silverfish]

I have a feeling Girardi will manage to have a worse season than last season. The guy should not be in the NHL.

Almost impossible, though would be fascinating... for science, not for the Rangers.

The reason it's impossible is that any team/coach with a brain could see this person doesn't belong in the NHL, and said person wouldn't even have the opportunity to perform worse than G did in 15-16.

Yeah, for science. Not for the Rangers

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I feel like im the only one that thinks that Staal is far worse than Girardi. Theres much hope that Girardi can bounce back and that he really can improve still, while Staal was just trash last season and there seems to be no hope for him to recover because ever since his injury he has been on a consistent decline season after season. I think thats a topic that should be discussed far more than Girardi being our "7th defenseman". You guys know that he isnt and that AV will not play Mcilrath or Holden or Clendening more than him. I've been desperately hoping for Staal to be moved somehow since the trade deadline, he is dead weight and needs to be removed; especially considering the fact that we are getting younger and faster.

 

[silverfish]

I feel like im the only one that thinks that Staal is far worse than Girardi. Theres much hope that Girardi can bounce back and that he really can improve still, while Staal was just trash last season and there seems to be no hope for him to recover because ever since his injury he has been on a consistent decline season after season. I think thats a topic that should be discussed far more than Girardi being our "7th defenseman". You guys know that he isnt and that AV will not play Mcilrath or Holden or Clendening more than him. I've been desperately hoping for Staal to be moved somehow since the trade deadline, he is dead weight and needs to be removed; especially considering the fact that we are getting younger and faster.

I'm interested as to why you think Staal is a lost-cause, but are happy to give Girardi the benefit of the doubt in him bouncing back?

Could you elaborate if you have the time?

 

[emodwarf]

I meant Klein, Fast, Lindy AND one of prospects.

Even if that prospect is Buch or Skjei, still don't see that getting it done. Wouldn't make sense for the other team. Unless the top pairing guy we get back is getting up in years or otherwise on the decline, which then doesn't make sense for us.

What team has too many top pairing dmen? And a desperate need for an aging 2nd pairing dman, 2 4th liners (one coming off serious surgery) and a prospect who isn't guaranteed to contribute right away?

While there is precedent for trading quality for some depth quantity and potential (Gabs to CBJ, for instance) , this just seems too much like 10 dimes for a dollar.

 

[Inferno]

Anyone see the blue shirt banter article that recommends we try going 4 forwards and 1 dman to little our defense from sucking lol

heh...they wrote a full article on that? i said that jokingly after we signed pirri...

 

[wafflepadsave]

Say what you want about McDonagh but BBKers brings up a valid point. McDonagh hits the free agency in 3 years time when he's going to be 30. What type of contract will he demand? 7/8 years @ 7-8 mill per? I love McDonagh but that contract is a tough pill to swallow.

Seems like the salary model is a bit flawed. Currently, players are getting retirement contracts past their prime generally speaking. Where is there was a way to pay the six player during his peak years of his career would be ideal. Obviously, hard to determine that before it happens. Bonuses could be possibly stricter differently to help alleviate part of the problem. Anybody have any input yo how that could be implemented should chime in.

 

[Avery16]

Say what you want about McDonagh but BBKers brings up a valid point. McDonagh hits the free agency in 3 years time when he's going to be 30. What type of contract will he demand? 7/8 years @ 7-8 mill per? I love McDonagh but that contract is a tough pill to swallow.

Sounds like a conversation worth having in about three years' time

 

[wafflepadsave]

Anyone see the blue shirt banter article that recommends we try going 4 forwards and 1 dman to little our defense from sucking lol

That's basically what happens when offensive defensemen take risks.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Remember when there were rumors that Chiarelli asked for Callahan and Girardi for Kessel before he dealt him to Toronto? And Sather reportedly turned him down?

Yeah and in hindsight it was a bad move. At the time it was the right move.

I'm interested as to why you think Staal is a lost-cause, but are happy to give Girardi the benefit of the doubt in him bouncing back?

Could you elaborate if you have the time?

Well, FWIW, I don't mind giving Girardi a chance to bounce back to becoming a 3rd pairing defenseman. That is about it. And the only reason I am alright with that is because he likely isn't being traded.

Staal had a much better second half in 2015-2016. I see him as being able to regain top 4 form.

 

[Avery16]

Remember when there were rumors that Chiarelli asked for Callahan and Girardi for Kessel before he dealt him to Toronto? And Sather reportedly turned him down?

Wouldn't that have been trading Cally and Girardi for nothing? We couldnt have afforded Kessels current contract. Plus I don't really like him.

 

[Roo Returns]

Hell, I'm still mad about the Zubov trade. Can we get a Zubov commiseration thread too?

Same...I'm not over it. Won't be until the Rangers win another Cup.

When Norstrom ended up in Dallas post 05 lockout and him and Zubov were playing together, that was one of the most depressing things to see. "Hey, there's our Captain and Alternate Captain"

Really wanted Sather to bring back Zubov for the 08-09 season and play 3rd pair minutes + PP QB just to undo the damage. But Sergei chose KHL.

 

[Levitate]

Not sure anyone is saying that but there IS a timing to building a roster... To having all the parts contribute at once (no matter their age or cost). Really the only way to win a cup.

Discussing this isn't a crime.

Not sure it's realistic either but we can't talk Stralman every day right?

RIGHT?????????

Right but I also don't think it's really possible to put together a cup contending roster if you trade everyone when they hit their mid-late 20's because you're scared of giving them a contrac tthat extends into their 30's.

 

[RangerBoy]

That was in 2009. The Rangers were still in the Kessel stuff right until the end. The Rangers had a tough contract negotiation with Dubinsky and the Rangers signed him the day after Kessel was traded to the Leafs. Maybe the Rangers were offering Dubinsky to Boston in the deal for Kessel. The timing would indicate that. Gorton had the Kessel connection. It looks bad now but it didn't look bad before the trade to Pittsburgh. There were not that many interested in acquiring Kessel from the Leafs.

 

[Avery16]

Same...I'm not over it. Won't be until the Rangers win another Cup.

When Norstrom ended up in Dallas post 05 lockout and him and Zubov were playing together, that was one of the most depressing things to see. "Hey, there's our Captain and Alternate Captain"

Sure, it was a bad trade. But Ulf and Luc are among my favorite Rangers. I wish we could've gotten them for Nedved and someone else.

Now the LA trade? We got absolutely nothing out of that. Churla was a soldier, but jeez. having Ferraro, Norstrom, Laperriere, even Lafayette probably would have been a difference maker in the 1997 ECF.

 

[Levitate]

That was in 2009. The Rangers were still in the Kessel stuff right until the end. The Rangers had a tough contract negotiation with Dubinsky and the Rangers signed him the day after Kessel was traded to the Leafs. Maybe the Rangers were offering Dubinsky to Boston in the deal for Kessel. The timing would indicate that. Gorton had the Kessel connection. It looks bad now but it didn't look bad before the trade to Pittsburgh. There were not that many interested in acquiring Kessel from the Leafs.

Anyone who paid attention and wasn't a "rah rah old school Canadian hockey" type that was buying into the crap the Toronto media was spewing out knew that Kessel was a great offensive player and should have been interested in signing him. It amazes me how many people bought into the "he's lazy and out of shape and doesn't do anything!" narrative about Kessel and ignored the fact that he's one of the best goal scorers in the league.

Toronto's downright idiocy, mismanagement, and horrible Canadian hockey media that is probably literally holding back hockey in Canada from stepping forward with the rest of the league created a complete joke around the whole Kessel situation.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I feel like im the only one that thinks that Staal is far worse than Girardi. Theres much hope that Girardi can bounce back and that he really can improve still, while Staal was just trash last season and there seems to be no hope for him to recover because ever since his injury he has been on a consistent decline season after season. I think thats a topic that should be discussed far more than Girardi being our "7th defenseman". You guys know that he isnt and that AV will not play Mcilrath or Holden or Clendening more than him. I've been desperately hoping for Staal to be moved somehow since the trade deadline, he is dead weight and needs to be removed; especially considering the fact that we are getting younger and faster.

Staal is currently better than Girardi, has always been better than Girardi, is 3 years younger, has less mileage on him. I'd say there are far more reasons to give Staal the benefit of the doubt than Girardi.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Sure, it was a bad trade. But Ulf and Luc are among my favorite Rangers. I wish we could've gotten them for Nedved and someone else.

Now the LA trade? We got absolutely nothing out of that. Churla was a soldier, but jeez. having Ferraro, Norstrom, Laperriere, even Lafayette probably would have been a difference maker in the 1997 ECF.

I'm not so sure about that. 1997 was the first playoffs I can remember pretty well. No one was stopping Philly that year. Either way, the 1996-97 Red Wings were on a warpath that year. It didn't matter whether we or Philly came out of the East.

Now, if we're talking about missing Norstrom and Lappierre as reasons why the Rangers didn't make the playoffs after '97, well, that's another discussion.

 

[bobbop]

Sure, it was a bad trade. But Ulf and Luc are among my favorite Rangers. I wish we could've gotten them for Nedved and someone else.

Now the LA trade? We got absolutely nothing out of that. Churla was a soldier, but jeez. having Ferraro, Norstrom, Laperriere, even Lafayette probably would have been a difference maker in the 1997 ECF.

"This Day In Ranger History"

Today (sigh) is the 21st anniversary of the Zubov trade.