Speculation: Offseason Thread XIX: Alright, Alright, Alright...

[aufheben]

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[Irishguy42]

Can't wait to see how Traverse City goes. And by "see" I mean read tweets about how the prospects are doing, since there isn't going to be any streaming of the games.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I feel like those scoring projections may be a bit low, but then again I honestly don't know what to expect from this team this season. There was so much turnover and it's such a different dynamic now with the types of players we've added and the rookies we're bringing in.

 

[Charlie Conway]

I feel like those scoring projections may be a bit low, but then again I honestly don't know what to expect from this team this season. There was so much turnover and it's such a different dynamic now with the types of players we've added and the rookies we're bringing in.

I can see it. I think we're going to have a harder time making zone exits without any specific PMD and the loss of both Boyle and Yandle. For the good we have up front, we trade off on the back end.

A lot of it is going to come down to this team's work ethic. Nash is very good, but I think he may be a step down from his prior years. I think we're sort of heading back to the days of the mass-2-way blue collar blue shirts, just with more offense this time around.

 

[Avery16]

How many days until training camp starts?

 

[wafflepadsave]

Can't wait to see how Traverse City goes. And by "see" I mean read tweets about how the prospects are doing, since there isn't going to be any streaming of the games.

Wondering why msg has decided against covering the tournament? Ratings must've been dismal. You would think NHL would show the games for fans who like it.

 

[Irishguy42]

Wondering why msg has decided against covering the tournament? Ratings must've been dismal. You would think NHL would show the games for fans who like it.

I think it has more to do with arena infrastructure than anything.

 

[RangerBoy]

Players report to camp on the 22nd for physicals. First day on ice is the 23rd. Season starts in 30 days from today. The Rangers begin one night later on the 13th. Trading deadline is February 28. 40 days left in the regular season.

 

[RangerBoy]

I think it has more to do with arena infrastructure than anything.

Money. MSG did cover the tournament a few years ago. 2011. Nothing since then.

 

[Revel]

Players report to camp on the 22nd for physicals. First day on ice is the 23rd. Season starts in 30 days from today. The Rangers begin one night later on the 13th. Trading deadline is February 28. 40 days left in the regular season.

Have been looking all-over for the training camp schedule and had been unable to find it. Dunno where you found it, but thanks!

 

[RangerBoy]

Have been looking all-over for the training camp schedule and had been unable to find it. Dunno where you found it, but thanks!

The Rangers have not released anything but other teams have released details which are the same.

 

[RangerBoy]

The NHL and NHLPA negotiated the details on training camp in the CBA. Reporting date is the 22nd. It is all the same for every team.

 

[Riche16]

Money. MSG did cover the tournament a few years ago. 2011. Nothing since then.

People don't realize how much $ it takes to do anything other than a single camer a shoot anywhere. It is very expensive. For what MSG was getting I'm sure it wasn't cost effective.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Is it too much to ask you to get the facts straight?
It is NOT an NTC which is bad depending upon how extensive it is

it is an NMC which is far worse

Your comments are arguably hypocritical, since you bemoan Girardi and Staal's NMCs and imply if not actually have said you'd do anything to avoid that in the future, when all it would take is to move the asset -- and I'm not even saying for a loss, either.

laugh at my expense
Stepan's time here will not go into next season
and logically Gorton will get more for him now than later, plus reduce threat to being stuck with him due to injury.

I didn't want to be insensitive, but you want to provoke, ya wanna start --- watch me finish....

Stepan has a NTC which was confirmed by a credible source:



Even if it was a NMC... It is not bad, since he will be 31 when his contract expires. Girardi was 30 when his started. Different situations.

Stepan produces like a no. 1 center. Maybe not elite when it comes to production, but certainly elite as a 2-way center.

 

[Avery16]

Players report to camp on the 22nd for physicals. First day on ice is the 23rd. Season starts in 30 days from today. The Rangers begin one night later on the 13th. Trading deadline is February 28. 40 days left in the regular season.

Thanks!

 

[bernmeister]

Stepan has a NTC which was confirmed by a credible source:



Even if it was a NMC... It is not bad, since he will be 31 when his contract expires. Girardi was 30 when his started. Different situations.

Stepan produces like a no. 1 center. Maybe not elite when it comes to production, but certainly elite as a 2-way center.

Yes that is credible.
But although the NYP has founder Alexander Hamilton turning in his grave repeatedly, on this occasion it is no less credible. A similar source clearly says NMC. (see Fanager).

NMC is worse. Let's be honest

 

[Levitate]

iirc a NMC and limited NTC can be combined...NMC means they can't send him down to the AHL, but the NTC means he can still be traded as long as it's to certain teams

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yes that is credible.
But although the NYP has founder Alexander Hamilton turning in his grave repeatedly, on this occasion it is no less credible. A similar source clearly says NMC. (see Fanager).

NMC is worse. Let's be honest

I guess we will never know, same with Girardi's contract. Different sources stating different details. I will trust Pat Leonard over Larry Brooks.

And a NMC is not a problem for a player who is 31 when his contract expires. The only difference between a NMC and a NTC is the possibility to send someone to Hartford (which only gives you 950k cap relief which no team will do for a $6.5m cap hit

 

[bernmeister]

iirc a NMC and limited NTC can be combined...NMC means they can't send him down to the AHL, but the NTC means he can still be traded as long as it's to certain teams

I guess we will never know, same with Girardi's contract. Different sources stating different details. I will trust Pat Leonard over Larry Brooks.

And a NMC is not a problem for a player who is 31 when his contract expires. The only difference between a NMC and a NTC is the possibility to send someone to Hartford (which only gives you 950k cap relief which no team will do for a $6.5m cap hit

I may be wrong, but if NMC is to be taken literally, if no special clauses exist, that means the player cannot be moved anywhere, there are no options to any clubs, unless the player consents, and there is no approved list, the NMC is the superior, ultimate veto.

The only option w/NMC is player can be told to sit on the bench, or stay home, I think. He can't be "sent" anywere at any time for duration of his contract w/o player consent

Also, if the NMC is existing it is a required imposition on a possible trade partner.
so no, it IS a big whoop.

And as to stop coaching Pat and LB, I'm not taking sides, just taking the side of caution.

 

[bernmeister]

try this:


1. McDonagh 4.7 x3 + Ranger 3rd in 2017, and NYR 4th in 2018
for
Trouba, [RFA = 0, but will result in savings for Wini since it is not paying Trouba 6 or more] + Jets 2nd in 2017, and Jets 3rd in 2018
cap is close enough

this deal was approved by Maukkis who underscored he would not recommend it to NY in a vacuum, and that moving Trouba, a 9OA, was not cut and dried either; however, his final conclusion remains, objectively, for Jets getting McD on that sweet contract, and the balance it provides adding needed LD to ample RD, it was worth it, even if it meant also losing on two separate picks exchanges; NY takes on more cap.

McD is ideal for Wini, which is RD heavy.
Rangers eliminate that McD can invoke protection clause soon, and this trade defeats that; acquire Trouba, who will cost more $ now but will be more cost effective later, but they get younger and also add in an area of need, unless he is flipped for....


2. W/Sabres
RFA Trouba, 0.0, but will remain to be signed
for
C Sam Reinhart on ELC, .894,166 x2 (cap hit)

Straight up, no complications, no drama.

Why Buf. Eichel is their true 1C, and have enough depth past the position to surrender Sam. Trouba is close value for Risto, selected a year apart a slot apart. Thought it heard somewhere Trouba is a fan of Eichel; he still wants to get paid, but I think he makes nice.
That leaves Sabes with interesting option: if Risto just has pain in the butt agent dragging this out and all is resolved, they can have extremely strong D overall, RD in particular to go with solid C. Or, regardless, can ship Risto’s rights to say EDM for Draisatil and Nurse.

Why Rangers: true 1C potential, solid add, like another Buchnevich but in the pivot. Key is ELC so expansion draft exempted, saving a protection slot.


3. W/Canes
Stepan* (6.5,reduced to 4.0, x 5) + Miller (2.75 x 2)+ Zucarello (4.5 x3) +Ott 2018 2nd = 11.25 cap [being exchanged]
for
Hanifin (.925 x 2) Pesce (.809,166 x 2) + Murphy (.787,500 x 2) + Skinner (5.725 x 3) + cap dump Bickel 4.0 expiring + return of Ranger 2017 2nd + Canes 1st in 2017 or 2018, CAR choice. {11.25 cap [being exchanged]} = 12.046,666

= cap dif under 1m = negligible

* has NMC clause but does not become effective til next season, so defeated with this trade.
Rangers gain just under 1m cap relief, moving 6.5, taking on a bit over 5.5

Why: CAR has excess of D, Miller, Stepan, Zuc are all solid adds. This does induce pain of loss of golden boy Hanifin, and has 2 exempt ELCs buh bye, but did not take on any NMCs and the rest of this deal is too good for Canes to pass up. Miller, 15OA, could go hire if redrafted, not on par with Hanafin but is a solid down payment vs. his potential. Small gap gain immediately, and Stepan discounted! Like 2.5 x 4 is 10mil savings both paid and cap hit. Miller and Zuc are bargains, Zuc >> than Skinner, not even having to cough up 4.0 for Bickell. Pesce has value but for all of the above, the ask is not too great, and even so much so Murphy can be a throw in. Does deplete Canes D reserves x 3, but they have plenty, starting w/Faulk on down.

For NY, Hanafin and Pesce are ELCs exempt from expansion draft and while that is very costly, it is huge add that works for Rangers.
Consider:
Hanafin Pesce
Skjei McIlrath
Graves Murphy
Holden Klein
Staal - Girardi

which assumes
Klein will be moved for a profit, possibly w/Lindberg/Fast, possibly not
Staal Girardi, we are likely stuck w/at least one, likely Girardi, but not unreasonable if Staal now sees the writing on the wall, he agrees to a move IF we send him where HE wants to go, and that is fine with us, as long as we can move his NMC.
So going into expansion, if Staal moved, we would have Girardi and 2 of Murphy/McIlrath and Holden to protect. Still want to move G, obviously, but a huge improvement.
We would still be able to eat up to half on the wonder twins.

So, robbing Peter to pay Paul?
Not really.

Can still do a top, dominating line of Kreider - Reinhart - Zib, with Zib as standby for C depth.
Then, yeah, loss of Miller hurts, but Hanifin makes up for it.

Grabner (speed to complement Hayes a la Hagelin) - Hayes - Vesey
if not moved Lindberg fine at 3C
Nash - Lindberg - Buchnevich
Piri - Jooris - Jensen
Skinner assumes Nash’s spot once he is moved.
Very important, Gropp and possibly Boo Nieves are rising quickly, replace Nash, Skinner. So it DOES work out!


How do ya like me now?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I may be wrong, but if NMC is to be taken literally, if no special clauses exist, that means the player cannot be moved anywhere, there are no options to any clubs, unless the player consents, and there is no approved list, the NMC is the superior, ultimate veto.

The only option w/NMC is player can be told to sit on the bench, or stay home, I think. He can't be "sent" anywere at any time for duration of his contract w/o player consent

Also, if the NMC is existing it is a required imposition on a possible trade partner.
so no, it IS a big whoop.

And as to stop coaching Pat and LB, I'm not taking sides, just taking the side of caution.

No, you are picking the source which best suits your narrative.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Bern you are crazy, Buffalo is not trading Reinhart for Trouba.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

try this:


1. McDonagh 4.7 x3 + Ranger 3rd in 2017, and NYR 4th in 2018
for
Trouba, [RFA = 0, but will result in savings for Wini since it is not paying Trouba 6 or more] + Jets 2nd in 2017, and Jets 3rd in 2018
cap is close enough

this deal was approved by Maukkis who underscored he would not recommend it to NY in a vacuum, and that moving Trouba, a 9OA, was not cut and dried either; however, his final conclusion remains, objectively, for Jets getting McD on that sweet contract, and the balance it provides adding needed LD to ample RD, it was worth it, even if it meant also losing on two separate picks exchanges; NY takes on more cap.

McD is ideal for Wini, which is RD heavy.
Rangers eliminate that McD can invoke protection clause soon, and this trade defeats that; acquire Trouba, who will cost more $ now but will be more cost effective later, but they get younger and also add in an area of need, unless he is flipped for....


2. W/Sabres
RFA Trouba, 0.0, but will remain to be signed
for
C Sam Reinhart on ELC, .894,166 x2 (cap hit)

Straight up, no complications, no drama.

Why Buf. Eichel is their true 1C, and have enough depth past the position to surrender Sam. Trouba is close value for Risto, selected a year apart a slot apart. Thought it heard somewhere Trouba is a fan of Eichel; he still wants to get paid, but I think he makes nice.
That leaves Sabes with interesting option: if Risto just has pain in the butt agent dragging this out and all is resolved, they can have extremely strong D overall, RD in particular to go with solid C. Or, regardless, can ship Risto’s rights to say EDM for Draisatil and Nurse.

Why Rangers: true 1C potential, solid add, like another Buchnevich but in the pivot. Key is ELC so expansion draft exempted, saving a protection slot.


3. W/Canes
Stepan* (6.5,reduced to 4.0, x 5) + Miller (2.75 x 2)+ Zucarello (4.5 x3) +Ott 2018 2nd = 11.25 cap [being exchanged]
for
Hanifin (.925 x 2) Pesce (.809,166 x 2) + Murphy (.787,500 x 2) + Skinner (5.725 x 3) + cap dump Bickel 4.0 expiring + return of Ranger 2017 2nd + Canes 1st in 2017 or 2018, CAR choice. {11.25 cap [being exchanged]} = 12.046,666

= cap dif under 1m = negligible

* has NMC clause but does not become effective til next season, so defeated with this trade.
Rangers gain just under 1m cap relief, moving 6.5, taking on a bit over 5.5

Why: CAR has excess of D, Miller, Stepan, Zuc are all solid adds. This does induce pain of loss of golden boy Hanifin, and has 2 exempt ELCs buh bye, but did not take on any NMCs and the rest of this deal is too good for Canes to pass up. Miller, 15OA, could go hire if redrafted, not on par with Hanafin but is a solid down payment vs. his potential. Small gap gain immediately, and Stepan discounted! Like 2.5 x 4 is 10mil savings both paid and cap hit. Miller and Zuc are bargains, Zuc >> than Skinner, not even having to cough up 4.0 for Bickell. Pesce has value but for all of the above, the ask is not too great, and even so much so Murphy can be a throw in. Does deplete Canes D reserves x 3, but they have plenty, starting w/Faulk on down.

For NY, Hanafin and Pesce are ELCs exempt from expansion draft and while that is very costly, it is huge add that works for Rangers.
Consider:
Hanafin Pesce
Skjei McIlrath
Graves Murphy
Holden Klein
Staal - Girardi

which assumes
Klein will be moved for a profit, possibly w/Lindberg/Fast, possibly not
Staal Girardi, we are likely stuck w/at least one, likely Girardi, but not unreasonable if Staal now sees the writing on the wall, he agrees to a move IF we send him where HE wants to go, and that is fine with us, as long as we can move his NMC.
So going into expansion, if Staal moved, we would have Girardi and 2 of Murphy/McIlrath and Holden to protect. Still want to move G, obviously, but a huge improvement.
We would still be able to eat up to half on the wonder twins.

So, robbing Peter to pay Paul?
Not really.

Can still do a top, dominating line of Kreider - Reinhart - Zib, with Zib as standby for C depth.
Then, yeah, loss of Miller hurts, but Hanifin makes up for it.

Grabner (speed to complement Hayes a la Hagelin) - Hayes - Vesey
if not moved Lindberg fine at 3C
Nash - Lindberg - Buchnevich
Piri - Jooris - Jensen
Skinner assumes Nash’s spot once he is moved.
Very important, Gropp and possibly Boo Nieves are rising quickly, replace Nash, Skinner. So it DOES work out!


How do ya like me now?

Yet another Bern team that loses a ton of games.

 

[bernmeister]

No, you are picking the source which best suits your narrative.

no, side of caution means if I am wrong and it is only NTC it is bad.

Cautious is presuming I am right and it IS nMc and we prepare for the worst.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern you are crazy, Buffalo is not trading Reinhart for Trouba.

I agree that's not a given, but consider:

Reinhart is behind Eichel; any other scenario, he would not be going, but its very premium to have him as a 2C;
also they have O'Reilly etc so they can actually afford to move Reinhart.

Now, what would be acceptable?
supposedly Trouba thinks highly of or is budds w/Eich-meister, supposedly not thrilled Jack did not make some team or something. Point is, he's not gonna cut his paycheck in half to go there, but I think he plays nice while he's playing hardball.

Risto, on the other hand, his agent is holding out for top, top top dollar (we think, I don't know personally, it's speculation -- but not unreasonable).

So Buf takes Trouba. instead of 7 or more, maybe Trouba does 6.5 for 6 or 6 for 7. Now Risto has even more reason to look at less than 7. And that assumes they keep both.

Creates an excuse to move Bogo, who is nice, but top dollar.

Sabes may say, I can live with Trouba at 6-ish or a bit over, let's move Ristolainen. What do you think EDM does?

Can you say Draisatil +?
and that + could be another D they want, somebody like Nurse, maybe Oilers add an asset to balance. Still.

So yeah, unless you think they will not try to improve -- and supposedly their owner has the $$$ --- and as a result, Eichel may go as soon as possible and keeping Reinhart is a hedge vs that --- unless you go THERE, I see they look at what best improves team --- a premium for Risto, do-able cause they got Trouba