Offseason Thread Part III

[Metallo]

Not sure we can get more than a 2nd round pick for Mikko now.

 

[Foppa2118]

Not sure we can get more than a 2nd round pick for Mikko now.

Eichel+Rantanen for a bag of pucks.

Need a third team to help facilitate the trade though. We can split the bag of pucks with them.

 

[dahrougem2]

One is a very dangerous thing (slashing the hands) and the other isn't (crosschecking).

You're being ignorant if you don't think cross-checking is dangerous. Just ask Viktor Arvidsson if he thinks cross-checks are dangerous.

Yes, but in hockey you have to carry your stick along with you. So if you want to shove someone, or push them away from the puck, or away from the net, you either have to drop your stick (not gonna happen) or use your stick to win a physical battle.

As Balthazar alluded to, cross checking is already a penalty. If someone crosses the line and uses too much force they get penalized. If there's a broken rib as a result of a bad cross check, they should consider a suspension. The examples they sited as penalties in their video did not come even close to crossing the line for a penalty or suspension IMO, except maybe Kucherov if we're going to be results oriented.

ROR has special defensive instincts and a special high motor that almost no other player has. Other players aren't capable of expending that much energy by keeping their feet moving and defending like ROR. They have to use their physical attributes and strength to defend the dirty areas. That's what makes ROR so good at what he does.

How can you say that, though? Literally by the letter of the law they are all penalties. There's no reason trying to justify them. Hockey is a physical sport; that doesn't mean it has to be a dirty/cheap sport. Cross-checking is the exact same as slashing to me. The sooner we can rid them from the game for the most part, the better it will be. There's no reason anyone should be defending via cross-check. It's a cheap way out. Learn how to actually defend.

 

[PAZ]

One is a very dangerous thing (slashing the hands) and the other isn't (crosschecking).

I can’t believe you just said cross checking isn’t dangerous. Half the cross checks thrown are directly to the lower back with less padding and enough force that causes the player to become off-balance/pushed onto the ice.

Don’t give me this bullshit that it’s not dangerous.

 

[katfude]

Glad to see cross checking get attention. It's dirty and unnecessary.

 

[S E P H]

I have zero faith in the NHL actually enforcing the rule in the playoffs but this is a start. Cross checking has gotten way out of hand and most of these examples aren't even hockey plays. It's just randomly taking someone out when they're not even near the puck. It's obvious interference too but it's not like they call that either.

One trillion percent right on the money here, my theory is that they're one of leading causes of back injuries for players both heading towards retire and had to retire due to back issues. I am not sure if that is what happened to Subban, but it wouldn't surprise me if him getting cross-chequed for majority of his career lead to his decline in play.

 

[Foppa2118]

How can you say that, though? Literally by the letter of the law they are all penalties. There's no reason trying to justify them. Hockey is a physical sport; that doesn't mean it has to be a dirty/cheap sport. Cross-checking is the exact same as slashing to me. The sooner we can rid them from the game for the most part, the better it will be. There's no reason anyone should be defending via cross-check. It's a cheap way out. Learn how to actually defend.

The difference in how we view this is I don't think the standard cross check is a dirty/cheap shot.

I think it's a tool that players, specifically defenseman, have used for about a century and if you call penalties on the type of plays they used in their examples, it's going to really limit how defenseman are able to defend down low and in front of the net.

Look at the McDavid play again in their example. How are they supposed to defend against him there if they can't play the body like that? If they go for a hit or try to play the puck, he's probably going to dance around them. They might as well just move aside and give him a breakaway, because they're not going to be able to stop him.

If they call it that tight it will also lead to a lot more diving, like 2-3 of the examples they used without the rule being called this tight. Which isn't good for hockey at all.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

why am I not surprised

 

[Foppberg]

 

[dahrougem2]

The difference in how we view this is I don't think the standard cross check is a dirty/cheap shot.

I think it's a tool that players, specifically defenseman, have used for about a century and if you call penalties on the type of plays they used in their examples, it's going to really limit how defenseman are able to defend down low and in front of the net.

Look at the McDavid play again in their example. How are they supposed to defend against him there if they can't play the body like that? If they go for a hit or try to play the puck, he's probably going to dance around them. They might as well just move aside and give him a breakaway, because they're not going to be able to stop him.

If they call it that tight it will also lead to a lot more diving, like 2-3 of the examples they used without the rule being called this tight. Which isn't good for hockey at all.

But that is not playing the body legally. That is a cross-check. It couldn't be any more clear, either. If defensemen at the NHL level don't know how to defend without cross-checking, maybe we need to reconsider whether they're NHL caliber defensemen.

Besides, Connor McDavid is supposed to dance around players. That's why he's the best player in the world. If the only solution to stopping him is "well, let's allow players to commit penalties but not call them" then this sport is not one I want to watch.

 

[MarkT]

Look at the McDavid play again in their example. How are they supposed to defend against him there if they can't play the body like that? If they go for a hit or try to play the puck, he's probably going to dance around them. They might as well just move aside and give him a breakaway, because they're not going to be able to stop him.

Um... yeah. That's kind of the point. If you have to cheat to stop someone, then you don't deserve to stop him.

____________________

I for one am glad they're cracking down the crosschecks. I know Landy will be happy - he gets pummeled in front of the net.

That being said, I think the priority should actually be interference - it's the new clutching and grabbing. I can't even count the number of times a guy throws the puck into the zone then tries to use his speed to go after it, and a big, slow defenseman just rubs him out on the boards despite the player not having the puck, and not having touched it for several seconds. Another example is when a puck is dumped in and a forward and defender are both racing for it. 9/10 times the defender will lay the body on the forward before either player has even touched the puck. I swear if they started cracking down on interference it would have the same effect as when they started cracking down on hooking and holding.

 

[PAZ]

Um... yeah. That's kind of the point. If you have to cheat to stop someone, then you don't deserve to stop him.

____________________

I for one am glad they're cracking down the crosschecks. I know Landy will be happy - he gets pummeled in front of the net.

That being said, I think the priority should actually be interference - it's the new clutching and grabbing. I can't even count the number of times a guy throws the puck into the zone then tries to use his speed to go after it, and a big, slow defenseman just rubs him out on the boards despite the player not having the puck, and not having touched it for several seconds. Another example is when a puck is dumped in and a forward and defender are both racing for it. 9/10 times the defender will lay the body on the forward before either player has even touched the puck. I swear if they started cracking down on interference it would have the same effect as when they started cracking down on hooking and holding.

Bednar’s system would be in shambles if this happened. He uses a lot of picks which are very much in the gray area.

 

[dmac7719]

If defensemen at the NHL level don't know how to defend without cross-checking, maybe we need to reconsider whether they're NHL caliber defensemen.

I personally view it like when hand checking was taken away in the NBA. Changed the game, and suddenly all of these "solid" defenders were exposed.

 

[MarkT]

Bednar’s system would be in shambles if this happened. He uses a lot of picks which are very much in the gray area.

If any team has the defensemen to adjust, we do.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The difference in how we view this is I don't think the standard cross check is a dirty/cheap shot.

I think it's a tool that players, specifically defenseman, have used for about a century and if you call penalties on the type of plays they used in their examples, it's going to really limit how defenseman are able to defend down low and in front of the net.

Look at the McDavid play again in their example. How are they supposed to defend against him there if they can't play the body like that? If they go for a hit or try to play the puck, he's probably going to dance around them. They might as well just move aside and give him a breakaway, because they're not going to be able to stop him.

If they call it that tight it will also lead to a lot more diving, like 2-3 of the examples they used without the rule being called this tight. Which isn't good for hockey at all.

If a cross check is in the rule book as being a penalty there’s no such thing as a clean cross check?

 

[Balthazar]

edit

 

[Hennessy]

With the crackdown on cross-checking I'm doubly glad that Ian Cole isn't on this team anymore.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

With the crackdown on cross-checking I'm doubly glad that Ian Cole isn't on this team anymore.

We do have Rantanen, who lost his mind and couldn’t stop cross checking folks last year.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Rantanen will take his fair share of cross checking penalties, but on the other hand no one will be able to take the puck away from him unless he falls down.

 

[El Travo]

We do have Rantanen, who lost his mind and couldn’t stop cross checking folks last year.

The team paid for the whole stick so he's going to use the whole stick.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

EJ is a bad cross checker as well.


If they truly do crack down on it like I'm hoping, I suspect we see him in the box quite a bit, at least early on in the year until hopefully he adjusts.

 

[Foppa2118]

Cross checking is not cheating unless it reaches a certain threshold. There's levels of severity to a cross check and when they become too forceful, then it is deemed cheating. It's the same reason you don't get called for holding every time you put your hand on someone. The examples they sited did not cross the line, especially the dives.

Cross checking isn't the black and white penalty it's being made out to be either. Not sure why people believe that. It's left to the referees discretion, based on the amount of force used.

Rule 59 – Cross-checking

59.1 - Cross-checking - The action of using the shaft of the stick between
the two hands to forcefully check an opponent.

59.2 Minor Penalty - A minor penalty, at the discretion of the Referee based on the severity of the contact, shall be imposed on a player who “cross checks” an opponent.

59.3 Major Penalty - A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee based on the severity of the contact, shall be imposed on a player who “cross checks” an opponent (see 59.5).

59.4 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent by cross-checking.

59.5 Game Misconduct Penalty - When a major penalty is assessed for cross-checking, an automatic game misconduct penalty shall be imposed on the offending player.

59.6 Fines and Suspensions - When a major penalty is imposed under this rule, an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100) shall also be imposed. If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/2018-2019-NHL-rulebook.pdf