Offseason Thread Part III

[JoeSakic13]

I don't believe the numbers.

How did they calculate these?

You sound like the guy from the Dvorak trade discussion on the main boards

 

[Balthazar]

You sound like the guy from the Dvorak trade discussion on the main boards

Which guy?

 

[Hasbro]

Who has a bigger impact on this up coming season? Newhook or Byram?

Dr Hook. Bigger need position.

 

[Hasbro]

Maybe Sakic can convince Benning to trade Horvat to make room for EP’s contract.

 

[Avsfan1921]

I hope it’s Newhook as I think he will be asked to play a larger role off the hop but I expect it to be Byram. I think he’ll be a rock as a third pairing D and while he won’t likely be in conversation for Calder because of his usage, everyone here will be very happy with his first full year.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Which guy?

This guy.

They’re not gospel, but saying Dvorak is worth “a lot more” than Kuemper removes any credibility in the rest of your post.

He absolutely is. Twice as much.

 

[Balthazar]

This guy.

Well he's right...not sure about twice as much but he's worth more. He's a young C signed for 4 years.

Kuemper doesn't really worth what we paid for him though, that's the thing. Edmonton f***ed us.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Well he's right.

A 3C is worth more than a top 10 goalie?

I’ll have what you’re having.

 

[Balthazar]

A 3C is worth more than a top 10 goalie?

I’ll have what you’re having.

There's a huge market for him as a 2C. Look at what Boston offered for him and got turned down. I know that Montreal wants him too.

 

[Avaholic29]

Well he's right...not sure about twice as much but he's worth more. He's a young C signed for 4 years.

Kuemper doesn't really worth what we paid for him though, that's the thing. Edmonton f***ed us.

Kuemper is easily worth a late first. sucks we had to give timmins but it’s a reach that timmins becomes a stud that will we forever regret trading. Barron will be much better.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Kuemper is easily worth a late first. sucks we had to give timmins but it’s a reach that timmins becomes a stud that will we forever regret trading. Barron will be much better.

Doubtful, that's just being a plain homer.

 

[Avaholic29]

Doubtful, that's just being a plain homer.

A homer? They were both avs picks lol… I’ve said that from the beginning, Barron only slid to us in the draft due to injury, he’s always had higher upside. He didn’t miss a whole year of development due to concussion, better skater and seems to have a stronger two way game but Timmy could prove me wrong who knows.

 

[avsfan9]

Well he's right...not sure about twice as much but he's worth more. He's a young C signed for 4 years.

Kuemper doesn't really worth what we paid for him though, that's the thing. Edmonton f***ed us.

Not really , they still have Smith and Koskinen. They are the ones who are f***ed. A top ten goalie is definitely worth a late first round pick and a#5-6 d man with potential, we have a few of those types of prospects with more potential and less concussion history. We weren’t getting a past the second round with Grubauer in net. Now we have a chance

 

[JoeSakic13]

A homer? They were both avs picks lol… I’ve said that from the beginning, Barron only slid to us in the draft due to injury, he’s always had higher upside. He didn’t miss a whole year of development due to concussion, better skater and seems to have a stronger two way game but Timmy could prove me wrong who knows.

Maybe not full homer but overly optimistic. Timmins looked like he could crack the lineup soon. However in the same light who is he going to take ice time away from next year if he was still here? I’d argue he shouldn’t crack the current core.

Barron is a little ways out and by then we could have a spot for him. Upside Timmins is further along and showed promise recently.

All said though, I think that we have more use for a guy like Barron in a few years than a guy like Timmins in the next few years. So Barron is more valuable to our core and Timmins is more valuable as a trading piece.

 

[Balthazar]

If this guy becomes a star in the NHL I'll be very pissed

 

[Balthazar]

Not really , they still have Smith and Koskinen. They are the ones who are f***ed. A top ten goalie is definitely worth a late first round pick and a#5-6 d man with potential, we have a few of those types of prospects with more potential and less concussion history. We weren’t getting a past the second round with Grubauer in net. Now we have a chance

Calling Kuemper a "top 10 goalie" to justify the price paid is not very honest. He's also a 31 yo, injury prone, rental. If he does well we probably can't keep him because he'll be old, risky and ask for term and big money... and if he doesn't do well then we won't want to keep him.

I highly doubt we'll see him with the Avs for more than one season.

As for the trade, Bill Armstrong himself said that sometimes you get a 4th for your goalie and other times you get 1st and a good prospect. It's been reported several times now that the Oilers came at the last minute and offered a 1st + a prospect for Kuemper which forced Sakic to include Timmins in the deal.

Many mistakes were made here, starting with taking too long to let Grubauer go and having no choice but entering a bidding war for the only starting goalie left. Waiting at the last minute to negotiate with your UFA's can happen but it can't happen too often. Even the Landy signing wasn't a great experience for either party here.

But that's not the point anyway. There's no way Kuemper is worth more on the market than a young middle 6 center with upside signed for 4 more years. Yotes fans are right to expect more...even though we overpaid for Kuemper.

 

[Avaholic29]

Calling Kuemper a "top 10 goalie" to justify the price paid is not very honest. He's also a 31 yo, injury prone, rental. If he does well we probably can't keep him because he'll be old, risky and ask for term and big money... and if he doesn't do well then we won't want to keep him.

I highly doubt we'll see him with the Avs for more than one season.

As for the trade, Bill Armstrong himself said that sometimes you get a 4th for your goalie and other times you get 1st and a good prospect. It's been reported several times now that the Oilers came at the last minute and offered a 1st + a prospect for Kuemper which forced Sakic to include Timmins in the deal.

Many mistakes were made here, starting with taking too long to let Grubauer go and having no choice but entering a bidding war for the only starting goalie left. Waiting at the last minute to negotiate with your UFA's can happen but it can't happen too often. Even the Landy signing wasn't a great experience for either party here.

But that's not the point anyway. There's no way Kuemper is worth more on the market than a young middle 6 center with upside signed for 4 more years. Yotes fans are right to expect more...even though we overpaid for Kuemper.

Kuemper is definitely a top 10 goalie based on the numbers. He will have even better numbers in Colorado.

 

[dahrougem2]

Well he's right...not sure about twice as much but he's worth more. He's a young C signed for 4 years.

Kuemper doesn't really worth what we paid for him though, that's the thing. Edmonton f***ed us.

If Christian Dvorak is put in the proper role, he's an overpaid, average 3rd line centre who is good on the PP.

If he's given 2C minutes, it's because the team he's on has bad enough centres so he's playing above where he should be.

No team should be trading a top prospect or 1st round pick for this guy. I'd give up J.T. Compher for him one-for-one. That's about the best I'd do.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Christian Dvorak is, by far, the most overrated player on HF right now.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Christian Dvorak is, by far, the most overrated player on HF right now.

Every Arizona fan:

 

[JLo217]

Every Arizona fan:

You mean all 4 of them?

 

[JoeSakic13]

You mean all 4 of them?

That’s not very fair……..
…..
…..
…..
…..
…..
When they brought back the Kachina logo I’m sure they at least went up 25%

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Christian Dvorak is, by far, the most overrated player on HF right now.

It’s nuts.

I actually think he’d be good Kadri insurance and a decent option to fill the bumper spot on PP1 in Colorado but the proposals and perceived asking price is the most confusing thing I’ve ever witnessed on here. He’s an average hockey player who at times in his career has performed “good” when put with really good players (Hall and Garland for example).

But as a whole he’s essentially just a 2nd/3rd line tweener. Which by the way has value. But not “double Darcy Kuemper value” lol.

 

[Richard88]

Calling Kuemper a "top 10 goalie" to justify the price paid is not very honest. He's also a 31 yo, injury prone, rental. If he does well we probably can't keep him because he'll be old, risky and ask for term and big money... and if he doesn't do well then we won't want to keep him.

I highly doubt we'll see him with the Avs for more than one season.

As for the trade, Bill Armstrong himself said that sometimes you get a 4th for your goalie and other times you get 1st and a good prospect. It's been reported several times now that the Oilers came at the last minute and offered a 1st + a prospect for Kuemper which forced Sakic to include Timmins in the deal.

Many mistakes were made here, starting with taking too long to let Grubauer go and having no choice but entering a bidding war for the only starting goalie left. Waiting at the last minute to negotiate with your UFA's can happen but it can't happen too often. Even the Landy signing wasn't a great experience for either party here.

But that's not the point anyway. There's no way Kuemper is worth more on the market than a young middle 6 center with upside signed for 4 more years. Yotes fans are right to expect more...even though we overpaid for Kuemper.

Supply and demand will dictate prices on players, and the price can often vary a lot based on positions.

For example, after seeing the return Ristolainen brought back (as a pending UFA top 4 RHD) you'd have thought Reinhart would return at least as much as Ristolainen did, but the package ended up being worse.

Dvorak is probably more valuable due to age, contract term, caphit, and position, but with Kuemper the market (supply and demand) set a higher price.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Who has a bigger impact on this up coming season? Newhook or Byram?

I could see Byram ending the season in the top-4, so I’ll say him.

I kinda think Bo’s breakout season is still a couple years away, but I love his overall skill-set. I think he’s going to be a real key piece, especially if/when a guy like Murray/Johnson gets injured.