Official offseason trades, signings, proposals thread II

[Porter Stoutheart]

People act like Shattenkirk didn't have a say in all of this. Since being traded from St. Louis he has been in the East. Did it occur to anyone that we weren't rumored because he had zero desire to go back to the West?

Just because you think a GM should sign someone and doesn't, it isn't necessarily a failure of the GM.

I think I said that I am saving it all up for a POTENTIAL "I told ya so". We have no way to know if Poile tried or not, or if Shattenkirk would have accepted or not, but them's the usual parameters of our judgements. If our RD situation falls flat this year and we have to give up assets to make a trade for a band-aid RD, I'm pulling out my "I told ya so" card. I might also do it just if Shattenkirk puts up a great season in Tampa - which is a pretty sweet spot for him to do well. If we held back on being fans just because we lacked every single piece of data, wellllll - it would hardly be any fun to be fans! (And we'd basically have to be suspected of being front office employees instead.).

Flip side... if our RD holds up and we win the Cup... or Shattenkirk implodes and is scratched from the Bolts, I will cheerfully forget all of this.

Sports Fan Bill of Rights.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Although Rocco is a fan favorite and has an unquestionable work effort, I believe he would have an extremely challenging time making the roster this year.

This year might not be too bad... he just has to beat out Gaudreau, Salomaki, maybe Carr, and hold off any prospect challengers - of whom nobody has really made a strong case to challenge for a roster spot based on last year's play anyway. So I would have to say he's more like a "shoo-in" for making the roster this year.

BUT! In coming years it would not be so easy (we sure hope, anyway!)... in general I'd question the long-term NHL feasibility of a 5'6" player if he can't score 20 goals say. And hopefully next year we start to see some prospects pushing harder for spots, players like Tolvanen, Pitlick, maybe Trenin taking that one last step, and even further down the road our new fresh supply of younger prospects like Tomasino and Afanaseyev making noise. So I think his long-term viability is definitely a huge question mark. He could have helped himself there if a Weber/Irwin/Gaudreau/Salomaki contract was on the table. But he'll get paid a shade more for 1 year via his arbitration result instead. And then walk as a UFA. And unless he has a really great year, I imagine he'll find the same challenges landing a job on other teams as he would have here.

Crucial season coming up for him. He's going to have to take that playoff showing and sustain it. He's fun to watch, so here's hoping he does.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

arbitrator will render a decision today at some point.

preds and grimaldi can still agree to a deal before that occurs.

my guess is 900K / 1 year - 1 way deal

 

[Armourboy]

arbitrator will render a decision today at some point.

preds and grimaldi can still agree to a deal before that occurs.

my guess is 900K / 1 year - 1 way deal

Yeah that's about what I figure. Frankly more than that and Poile is probably just wishing he could walk away from it.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Is there a feasible way for us to snatch Ristolainen out of Buffalo since it doesn't seem like they're getting what he's worth for the time being?
We've had a very uneventful summer outside Subban and Duchene, not even that many minor league transactions, it's just meh, the defense got worse and the offense a little bit better. Ristolainen on the right side on the 2nd pair would make me happier than Fabbro for the time being but the cost to acquire him would probably mean Tolvanen and someone with term and money, say Turris, Bonino..

Idk if we have a deal there but Ristolainen probably would become a better player with fewer minutes.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Is there a feasible way for us to snatch Ristolainen out of Buffalo since it doesn't seem like they're getting what he's worth for the time being?
We've had a very uneventful summer outside Subban and Duchene, not even that many minor league transactions, it's just meh, the defense got worse and the offense a little bit better. Ristolainen on the right side on the 2nd pair would make me happier than Fabbro for the time being but the cost to acquire him would probably mean Tolvanen and someone with term and money, say Turris, Bonino..

Idk if we have a deal there but Ristolainen probably would become a better player with fewer minutes.

I wouldn't want Ristolainen at his term and AAV. Especially, if it comes at the cost of Tolvanen.

 

[OldFan]

arbitrator will render a decision today at some point.

preds and grimaldi can still agree to a deal before that occurs.

my guess is 900K / 1 year - 1 way deal

I’m a big fan and try not to complain BUT:
Why can’t Preds do something like this:
Poile calls Bratten or somebody and says something like this:
“Brooks, put out a media release snd post the following on the web site; The Predators and Rocco Grimaldi were unable to reach a contract agreement prior to Rocco’s scheduled arbitration hearing today at xx:xx despite the continuing discussions of both parties. Subsequently that hearing took place. The arbiter now has 48 hours to render a decision which will be announced no later than Tuesday. Rest assured that the Predators and Rocco remain in contract discussions during this period and still hope an agreement can be reached before the arbiter decision.” Our fans and season ticket holders deserve this announcement. Thanks, Brooks
Now that just provides information, does not announce anything confidential nor violate any terms of the Player Agreement.
The Preds sometimes are just too secretive and forget their fans want access to some information.
I decided on Sunday afternoon I wanted to know something on this and the absence of any information was borderline ridiculous.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

I wouldn't want Ristolainen at his term and AAV. Especially, if it comes at the cost of Tolvanen.

To be honest the only reason I'm proposing this even at the grassroot level is how Tolvanen seems to run in place with his current progress.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I wouldn't want Ristolainen at his term and AAV. Especially, if it comes at the cost of Tolvanen.

Agreed. Ristolainen might be an interesting... "project"... but he's not a slam dunk and at his age and $5.4M vs. our payroll, you only go after him hard if you really have confidence that he's a keeper. I don't see how we can have that confidence. Especially with expansion coming up.

I mean, I'd trade Turris for him, no problem. Who really cares there, since Turris' spot in the lineup and his longterm payroll slot is already a bit dubious. Or even Bonino. But that's obviously not what Buffalo is hoping for.

There's no way I'd trade Tolvanen or any other "fair"-seeming futures package for him.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

To be honest the only reason I'm proposing this even at the grassroot level is how Tolvanen seems to run in place with his current progress.

"running in place" is one season so far though. He went from "meh" bottom 1st draft pick to "HOLY **** HE's a MEGASTEAL" KHL season to "meh again" 1st AHL season... it's too small a data sample to really get too worried about IMO. If Tolvanen has another "meh" AHL season, that's when I'll get a little worried on him.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

"running in place" is one season so far though. He went from "meh" bottom 1st draft pick to "HOLY **** HE's a MEGASTEAL" KHL season to "meh again" 1st AHL season... it's too small a data sample to really get too worried about IMO. If Tolvanen has another "meh" AHL season, that's when I'll get a little worried on him.

I'm not worried, I'm more thinking about potential maximizing of value for him.
He'll probably get outplayed by Carr.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm not worried, I'm more thinking about potential maximizing of value for him.
He'll probably get outplayed by Carr.

Oh, I totally expect Carr is better today. That's not even on my radar. But I would just like to see Tolvanen have a "dominant" AHL season --- well, one where he scores say 30 goals anyway. Then he's progressing and in line to move up. I will "worry" if he doesn't... just because his KHL year kind of pumped up my hopes on him, I guess. It's not actually going to kill us or anything if he doesn't pan out... but it would be awfully nice if he did.

 

[Drake744]

random thought, now that we traded PK how pissed do you think the NHL is that they put us in the Winter Classic?

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Tolvanen age perspective is important context for AHL numbers. He was very productive from that standpoint. It's a hard league to transition for a guy that needs to add strength to his game, but a good place to be for him because of that same reason.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

random thought, now that we traded PK how pissed do you think the NHL is that they put us in the Winter Classic?

It would be pretty cool if the NHL was scheduling big ticket PR events around PK Subban. But wait, they don't seem to be very intelligent that way in general, do they? If they had demonstrated some kind of PR acumen in the past, I guess I could imagine them being a little bummed at losing out on PK's antics. But since that's clearly not their forte...

 

[Adz]

random thought, now that we traded PK how pissed do you think the NHL is that they put us in the Winter Classic?

I don't think he was the reason they put us there. I think it was more of a south vs south thing, possibly to get a few folks who noticed that the NYD game usually featured more northern teams off their back. No doubt he is a draw, though. It works out well for them for PK to be in NJ now--he has from around 4 PM NYE through the first off so they can have him on as guest host and give "insider" info about the Preds.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

random thought, now that we traded PK how pissed do you think the NHL is that they put us in the Winter Classic?

I had posted this one back in the main board trade reaction thread.

In a separate report, the NHL and NBC have announced they discovered a glitch in their PR software and scheduling generator. This year's Winter Classic will actually feature the Chicago Blackhawks facing the Dallas Stars in Dallas, Texas, on New Year's Day. They regret any confusion or inconvenience from this oversight.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Interesting quote from Vingan's latest mailbag:

"The Predators’ dressing room when reporters are allowed inside and when it’s behind closed doors are two different things. You can pick up clues, though, if you watch closely. I never got the sense last season that the Predators’ room was in any sort of significant disarray or that its makeup led to their disappointing finish. Overall, it is a solid, well-balanced room. (I assume some of you are thinking about P.K. Subban. Could he be exhausting? Absolutely. He’s a little extra. We all know that. But trading him to the New Jersey Devils wasn’t about removing him from the room.)"

Albeit he admittedly doesn't get to see what the room looks like this does seem to suggest that Subban and/or Fiala didn't seem to be the locker room cancers that some people have wanted to portray them as.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah, I don't think our closed-door perspective ever really gave any sense of "cancers". Not with any of the players who were moved. Subban speaks well of the team and his teammates in his exit interview, he seems real earnest, everybody speaking about him seems earnest and positive too. You'd think something would leak out around the edges if that wasn't the case. Some little thing somewhere. But really nothing ever did.

Fiala just seemed to be a guy that was a little too... "ambitious?"... about his role on the team and you can't necessarily blame him for being cocky and wanting to do more... it never seemed like it really affected the players any, maybe just more the guys upstairs --- when you have to trade to acquire a player like Granlund and when you may have a new contract to negotiate and you see a player who maybe thinks he has earned a little more than his due... well, I see that as more a management level decision than anything about the room. Possibly something similar with Hartman... not a cancer per se, but a guy who isn't necessarily toeing the full line and who you know you're going to have to tangle with in contract negotiations in the summer... if you have to trade for Granlund and Simmonds, you have to give up some real assets, so there is just a simple fit to give up those players without them necessarily being anything remotely close to "cancers".

My peanut gallery read of the "room" --- from far far outside closed doors! --- is that maybe the core is just a little too laid back. Friendly, happy, supportive, cohesive.... but... maybe just a tad complacent? Could be a lot worse, for sure! Having a good team and a cohesive group with no cancers (before or after those trades) is by no means a bad thing! Just maybe if you are looking for an "extra step" to become CHAMPIONS there might be a little something lacking. That's not the presence of anything bad (before or after those trades), rather just the lack of maybe some key missing ingredient still.

 

[predwings]

Interesting quote from Vingan's latest mailbag:

"The Predators’ dressing room when reporters are allowed inside and when it’s behind closed doors are two different things. You can pick up clues, though, if you watch closely. I never got the sense last season that the Predators’ room was in any sort of significant disarray or that its makeup led to their disappointing finish. Overall, it is a solid, well-balanced room. (I assume some of you are thinking about P.K. Subban. Could he be exhausting? Absolutely. He’s a little extra. We all know that. But trading him to the New Jersey Devils wasn’t about removing him from the room.)"

Albeit he admittedly doesn't get to see what the room looks like this does seem to suggest that Subban and/or Fiala didn't seem to be the locker room cancers that some people have wanted to portray them as.

I personally don't believe they were cancers. I feel the numbers have caught up to them, and PK himself isn't a cancer to the team, but I think to himself he might be. He distracts himself too much and spends too much time worrying about his next time on camera and his game suffered this year because of it. Fiala just never got over the hump, the fact we were able to trade him for what we did is surprising to me, he ended up bringing back what we hoped he'd become which is essentially trading up without having to give up much of anything. No, they weren't cancers, they just weren't holding up their end of the deal and they needed new perspectives just as much as we needed new faces.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I personally don't believe they were cancers. I feel the numbers have caught up to them, and PK himself isn't a cancer to the team, but I think to himself he might be. He distracts himself too much and spends too much time worrying about his next time on camera and his game suffered this year because of it. Fiala just never got over the hump, the fact we were able to trade him for what we did is surprising to me, he ended up bringing back what we hoped he'd become which is essentially trading up without having to give up much of anything. No, they weren't cancers, they just weren't holding up their end of the deal and they needed new perspectives just as much as we needed new faces.

I agree with this mostly although I do think PK's decline this season was more injury induced than anything else. Ultimately, I agree though that both the Subban and Fiala moves happened because Poile saw an opportunity to make a move that he thought improved the team. However, there are a subset of fans (although less prevalent on here than other sites) who seemed to think that both those guys were creating internal discord and that played a part in them being traded though which I always found to be a silly take.

 

[OldFan]

Here’s my take on PK. He was no longer a $9m defenseman. A good Dman; maybe even a star for some teams. But Preds have 3 other good ones but none of them were $9m. Poile simply needed that money to sign Duchene. I think it is as simple as that.
PK brings one other big attribute and that is the PR factor. New Jersey, competing with the Rangers and Islanders, needed that. Probably more than PK’s diminishing skill level. Now they’ve got it; Poile got his money and then Duchene.
I liked PK and hope I’ll like Duchene better.
We’ll see.

 

[Armourboy]

Yeah, I don't think our closed-door perspective ever really gave any sense of "cancers". Not with any of the players who were moved. Subban speaks well of the team and his teammates in his exit interview, he seems real earnest, everybody speaking about him seems earnest and positive too. You'd think something would leak out around the edges if that wasn't the case. Some little thing somewhere. But really nothing ever did.

Fiala just seemed to be a guy that was a little too... "ambitious?"... about his role on the team and you can't necessarily blame him for being cocky and wanting to do more... it never seemed like it really affected the players any, maybe just more the guys upstairs --- when you have to trade to acquire a player like Granlund and when you may have a new contract to negotiate and you see a player who maybe thinks he has earned a little more than his due... well, I see that as more a management level decision than anything about the room. Possibly something similar with Hartman... not a cancer per se, but a guy who isn't necessarily toeing the full line and who you know you're going to have to tangle with in contract negotiations in the summer... if you have to trade for Granlund and Simmonds, you have to give up some real assets, so there is just a simple fit to give up those players without them necessarily being anything remotely close to "cancers".

My peanut gallery read of the "room" --- from far far outside closed doors! --- is that maybe the core is just a little too laid back. Friendly, happy, supportive, cohesive.... but... maybe just a tad complacent? Could be a lot worse, for sure! Having a good team and a cohesive group with no cancers (before or after those trades) is by no means a bad thing! Just maybe if you are looking for an "extra step" to become CHAMPIONS there might be a little something lacking. That's not the presence of anything bad (before or after those trades), rather just the lack of maybe some key missing ingredient still.

I've been the most adamant that Fiala and Hartman were both moved for " reasons" and I think in both cases it was because they were guys that were way to worried about their contracts. Whether that had an effect in the locker room I don't know, but I think it bothered someone so they were more than willing to let them go.

Also that quote tells me two things, the media has zero clue what goes on in the Preds locker room and it also tells me why Fenton clashed in Minnesota. He's used to a tight lipped organization and walking into one that wasn't caused him to want to put a clamp down on it.

 

[Drake744]

Yeah, I don't think our closed-door perspective ever really gave any sense of "cancers". Not with any of the players who were moved. Subban speaks well of the team and his teammates in his exit interview, he seems real earnest, everybody speaking about him seems earnest and positive too. You'd think something would leak out around the edges if that wasn't the case. Some little thing somewhere. But really nothing ever did.

Fiala just seemed to be a guy that was a little too... "ambitious?"... about his role on the team and you can't necessarily blame him for being cocky and wanting to do more... it never seemed like it really affected the players any, maybe just more the guys upstairs --- when you have to trade to acquire a player like Granlund and when you may have a new contract to negotiate and you see a player who maybe thinks he has earned a little more than his due... well, I see that as more a management level decision than anything about the room. Possibly something similar with Hartman... not a cancer per se, but a guy who isn't necessarily toeing the full line and who you know you're going to have to tangle with in contract negotiations in the summer... if you have to trade for Granlund and Simmonds, you have to give up some real assets, so there is just a simple fit to give up those players without them necessarily being anything remotely close to "cancers".

My peanut gallery read of the "room" --- from far far outside closed doors! --- is that maybe the core is just a little too laid back. Friendly, happy, supportive, cohesive.... but... maybe just a tad complacent? Could be a lot worse, for sure! Having a good team and a cohesive group with no cancers (before or after those trades) is by no means a bad thing! Just maybe if you are looking for an "extra step" to become CHAMPIONS there might be a little something lacking. That's not the presence of anything bad (before or after those trades), rather just the lack of maybe some key missing ingredient still.

I know PK's a big name and guys might want to keep things close to the vest in regards to him but I don't believe he was ever a legitimate problem in the room. He was always extremely complimentary of his teammates and none of them had anything bad (publicly) to imply. I've got a casual friend from Switzerland who has since moved back there and he met Josi a few years ago and talked with him casually a couple times and he said Josi made a not so glowing comment about Fiala, although that was maybe three years ago.

 

[predwings]

So did something happen with Grimaldi? No news?