Official offseason trades, signings, proposals thread II

[AtlantaWhaler]

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[GoldOnGold]

I think trading Bonino makes a lot of sense considering the Josi and Granlund extensions we'll probably need to sign next year. A 3rd would be fine.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't see any point in trading Bonino right now... not unless you attach it to a specific additional move that it allows us to make, anyway. Tell me who we are signing or acquiring to fill the cap space if you are moving Bonino. Then it could make sense.

But in the meantime, why give up a good player for a 3rd round pick. If you ever do want to just liquidate him off the roster, now - when teams are jockeying for cap space - is not the time to do it. Move him to a playoff contender at the trade deadline - that's the time to maximize the return on him if you're just looking to clear space on next year's payroll.

 

[GoldOnGold]

I don't see any point in trading Bonino right now... not unless you attach it to a specific additional move that it allows us to make, anyway. Tell me who we are signing or acquiring to fill the cap space if you are moving Bonino. Then it could make sense.

But in the meantime, why give up a good player for a 3rd round pick. If you ever do want to just liquidate him off the roster, now - when teams are jockeying for cap space - is not the time to do it. Move him to a playoff contender at the trade deadline - that's the time to maximize the return on him if you're just looking to clear space on next year's payroll.

Unless Turris plays wing fulltime, Bonino is likely to have lowered icetime and lower quality linemates compared to last year. His value might be a lot lower if he plays all season in a reduced role, making it harder to dump him next summer when we need to pay Josi and Granlund/Smith.

 

[PredsV82]

Trading Bonino would be a cap dump and the return would reflect that. Might as well keep him.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Unless Turris plays wing fulltime, Bonino is likely to have lowered icetime and lower quality linemates compared to last year. His value might be a lot lower if he plays all season in a reduced role, making it harder to dump him next summer when we need to pay Josi and Granlund/Smith.

Who really knows. Turris might entrench himself in the doghouse with another bad year. We might not even WANT to pay Granlund and Smith if they don't have good seasons. Etc. Heck, there might not even be hockey in 2020-21 if there is another lockout. I don't think it makes sense to firesale Bonino based on just a bag of assorted what ifs. Give me something concrete that makes our team better in 2019-20.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

I don't see any reason to keep Bonino rn.
A core that consists of 10 C's according to NHL.com (and I'm willing to only count 6 here as C's) has no use for a 4 million 4th liner just because he has the intangibles. These players aren't the ones who win you the games, and the intangibles they possess are glorified by GM's essentially for no reason.
Duchene-Johansen-Turris-Jarnkrok/Sissons/Gaudreau is potent if Turris bounces back and even if Turris is played as a winger in the future, the core doesn't really need Bonino. I'd ensure keeping Josi and Granlund by shipping him out in this offseason.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Who really knows. Turris might entrench himself in the doghouse with another bad year. We might not even WANT to pay Granlund and Smith if they don't have good seasons. Etc. Heck, there might not even be hockey in 2020-21 if there is another lockout. I don't think it makes sense to firesale Bonino based on just a bag of assorted what ifs. Give me something concrete that makes our team better in 2019-20.

How is Bonino 'something concrete'?
There is a decision here, keep him or don't. I don't think a career 3rd liner like Bonino is capable of becoming something concrete for us.

Maybe there's a small chance our whole team gains an offensive boost out of the 1 new coach and this argument becomes obsolete, but Bonino isn't the one who would gain the most out of the said boost if there ever was one.

 

[FilthyScoresberg]

I’d rather trade Turris. Bonino is solid. When he’s in the O-zone behind the net, he’s dangerous. Plus he’s great defensively.
Turris isn’t a fit with us- at least not anymore. I like him and liked the addition at the time, but we got who we have really been after finally and we need to build around that. I’d be surprised if he was okay with playing wing WITH the guy they clearly think is the better option for 2C. I know I wouldn’t, knowing that I was always just the back up plan. I personally think Turris is a goner.

 

[Scoresberg]

No reason to trade him for a pick now when we don’t really need the cap space and we are trying to contend. Next summer is the time for that and if we lose a couple of rounds in the draft, big deal.

To trade him for a defensive insurance, though..

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

How is Bonino 'something concrete'?
There is a decision here, keep him or don't. I don't think a career 3rd liner like Bonino is capable of becoming something concrete for us.

Maybe there's a small chance our whole team gains an offensive boost out of the 1 new coach and this argument becomes obsolete, but Bonino isn't the one who would gain the most out of the said boost if there ever was one.

Bonino's already something concrete. He's a solid #3 center who got us 17 goals, some real good even strength production, good on faceoffs, good in the room, +27. Now, sure, one has to think his production will go down if things are more jammed up the middle, but he's still the same player either way, and no matter where and how you use him he's a better player than Salomaki or Gaudreau. So he's something concrete that does help make our team better. A 3rd round pick does not make our team better.

Unless you give me a plan for what you're going to do with the $4.1M extra cap space created in 2019-20, that is. Give me a concrete plan. We do have a surplus at C at the moment, and if there's something solid that makes our team better, I'm all for it. But you can't just go trading him for a 3rd round pick and sit there with empty cap space all year and Gaudreau on the roster instead, that doesn't do anything for us.

Did we forget that we should still be contending or what???

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I’d rather trade Turris. Bonino is solid. When he’s in the O-zone behind the net, he’s dangerous. Plus he’s great defensively.
Turris isn’t a fit with us- at least not anymore. I like him and liked the addition at the time, but we got who we have really been after finally and we need to build around that. I’d be surprised if he was okay with playing wing WITH the guy they clearly think is the better option for 2C. I know I wouldn’t, knowing that I was always just the back up plan. I personally think Turris is a goner.

I just don't see any reason to trade either one of them right now - at least not as dumps for picks. I would have been ALL ABOARD ditching Turris to make room for Duchene, that's for sure. But that ship has sailed now. Might as well see how things shake out and if he can recoup any value next season. We've got nothing else lined up to spend his money on.

But for a solid RD, though, now that's a different story... if there's one of those to be had, sign me up - Turris or Bonino, either way.

 

[Olderfan]

I’d rather trade Turris. Bonino is solid. When he’s in the O-zone behind the net, he’s dangerous. Plus he’s great defensively.
Turris isn’t a fit with us- at least not anymore. I like him and liked the addition at the time, but we got who we have really been after finally and we need to build around that. I’d be surprised if he was okay with playing wing WITH the guy they clearly think is the better option for 2C. I know I wouldn’t, knowing that I was always just the back up plan. I personally think Turris is a goner.

 

[David Singleton]

I don't see any point in trading Bonino right now... not unless you attach it to a specific additional move that it allows us to make, anyway. Tell me who we are signing or acquiring to fill the cap space if you are moving Bonino. Then it could make sense.

But in the meantime, why give up a good player for a 3rd round pick. If you ever do want to just liquidate him off the roster, now - when teams are jockeying for cap space - is not the time to do it. Move him to a playoff contender at the trade deadline - that's the time to maximize the return on him if you're just looking to clear space on next year's payroll.

Trading Bonino would be a cap dump and the return would reflect that. Might as well keep him.

Is the preference on the part of the Predators to build a team having 3 scoring lines? If so, Turris fits that better than Bonino. Perhaps Sissons could be used in the place of either.

Do you plan to re-up Granlund for next year? Craig Smith? Bonino or Turris would likely need to be traded in either case (and perhaps both).

Wings on this Predators team are fairly weak, especially LW.

While trades don't have to be made right now with 5M in cap space, it wouldn't shock me if they happen in an attempt to further improve the roster. In fact, I hope they do happen. As a Predators' fan, I sure hope Poile isn't serious about the roster being set with so many unknowns (Carr, full season of Grimaldi, weak wings, etc).

 

[Predsanddead24]

I just don't see any reason to trade either one of them right now - at least not as dumps for picks. I would have been ALL ABOARD ditching Turris to make room for Duchene, that's for sure. But that ship has sailed now. Might as well see how things shake out and if he can recoup any value next season. We've got nothing else lined up to spend his money on.

But for a solid RD, though, now that's a different story... if there's one of those to be had, sign me up - Turris or Bonino, either way.

My main concern with holding on to Turris is that we're not going to put him in a situation to succeed as a 3C with lesser linemates or playing a position he hasn't played significant time at as a pro. If he puts up another dud of a season we're either retaining salary or giving up assets to move him or we're stuck with a $6 million player who isn't producing for 4 more seasons.

As for Bonino I agree that I just don't really see the point in moving him unless it is for something that improves the team now. If we really need the cap space next season I imagine we could move him for a late round pick and at worst we'd have to retain a $1-2 million dollars of salary but that's only for one season.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

One thing I'm definitely not scared or worried about is re-signing Granlund or Smith. We don't seem to have a lot of trouble keeping players who want to be here. So my question on them is are we even going to want them at their anticipated term and salary.

Say they have their bog-standard seasons. Granlund gets 15-20 goals and 40 assists. Smith is about 20-20. 28 and 30 years old respectively. Granlund wants what, 6x$7.5M? Smith at 6x6? I wouldn't necessarily be salivating to re-sign both of these guys at "fair market" term and $$$, even if they do have their typical-good level of production.

I'm definitely not making moves with a look ahead to accommodating Granlund AND Smith long term. They can go ahead and earn my attention with what they do on the ice in 2019-20.

 

[triggrman]

My main concern with holding on to Turris is that we're not going to put him in a situation to succeed as a 3C with lesser linemates or playing a position he hasn't played significant time at as a pro. If he puts up another dud of a season we're either retaining salary or giving up assets to move him or we're stuck with a $6 million player who isn't producing for 4 more seasons.

As for Bonino I agree that I just don't really see the point in moving him unless it is for something that improves the team now. If we really need the cap space next season I imagine we could move him for a late round pick and at worst we'd have to retain a $1-2 million dollars of salary but that's only for one season.

Lavy roles 3 scoring lines or that's his goal so Turris role on the 2nd line is no different than his role on the 3rd line. The only "checking/defense line we have will likely be the 4th line.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

My main concern with holding on to Turris is that we're not going to put him in a situation to succeed as a 3C with lesser linemates or playing a position he hasn't played significant time at as a pro. If he puts up another dud of a season we're either retaining salary or giving up assets to move him or we're stuck with a $6 million player who isn't producing for 4 more seasons.

As for Bonino I agree that I just don't really see the point in moving him unless it is for something that improves the team now. If we really need the cap space next season I imagine we could move him for a late round pick and at worst we'd have to retain a $1-2 million dollars of salary but that's only for one season.

Yeah, we could engage in some hand-wringing about all sorts of things like that, I agree. But at some point I think we just have to let it play out.

And Poile isn't moving Turris anyway, if we didn't already get that message loud and clear in the lead-up to the Duchene signing, then we're not really paying attention. So no matter how much we want to fret about it - and I did more than my fair share of fretting on the Turris file already - it's going to be wasted effort. We just have to cross our fingers on that one and see what happens on the ice next year.

Worst case, you have Seattle coming along the year after, and who knows maybe a lockout with some extra contract outs, or even the current buyout rules it's just a $2M cap hit. So there are some fallbacks if it comes to it.

 

[101st_fan]

Joey played roughly 1.8x as many minutes as Turris. If we standardize performance at Joey's TOI ...
goals Joey 14, Turris 12.6 .... primary assists Joey 29, Turris 23.4 ... secondary assists Joey 21, Turris 5.4 .. Turris with 4 PPG, Joey with 0.

When equalized for TOI, Turris put up 90% of Joey's goals, 80% of his primary assists, but only 25% of Joey's secondary assists.

Looking at the numbers is why I'm not on the rush to dump Turris bandwagon. There were plenty of issues with his game last season but when looking at goals and primary assists per 60 minutes it isn't the unmitigated disaster portrayed here. If the team moves him, there has to be something coming back in return.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Lavy roles 3 scoring lines or that's his goal so Turris role on the 2nd line is no different than his role on the 3rd line. The only "checking/defense line we have will likely be the 4th line.

Even if the idea is to have three scoring lines if he's centering the third line Turris is still likely going to have less ice time, worse linemates, and less favorable offensive zone starts. There's also a good chance he's getting less PP time as well. It's tough to say what the situation looks like if we're trying to run three scoring lines since even if that has been Lavi's goal we've never actually had the personnel to do that. I wouldn't consider Sissons-Bonino-Watson or whatever other combo that has been our third line in recent years to actually be a scoring line.

 

[triggrman]

Even if the idea is to have three scoring lines if he's centering the third line Turris is still likely going to have less ice time, worse linemates, and less favorable offensive zone starts. There's also a good chance he's getting less PP time as well. It's tough to say what the situation looks like if we're trying to run three scoring lines since even if that has been Lavi's goal we've never actually had the personnel to do that. I wouldn't consider Sissons-Bonino-Watson or whatever other combo that has been our third line in recent years to actually be a scoring line.

Last year Bonino averaged more TOI than Turris but pretty much everyone not on the top line was very close in TOI. If Turris wants more playing time, there's an easy way to get that...

 

[weeze]

So if we keep everyone we have now, what are the Forward lines? Who goes to the Ads, waived or traded?

JoFA
Granny/Duch/Smith
Bones/Turris/Grimaldi
Watson/Sissons/Jarnkrok
Salo
Freddie
ET
Carr

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

And somewhere in one of these threads, my outside the box question is whether Joey can be an effective sometimes-winger? He at least has the size and willingness to engage that Turris doesn't. We get focused on the idea of 1A/1B with Joey and Duchene and what to do with Turris, and how we still need another winger... but...
Forsberg-Turris-Joey
Granlund-Duchene-Arvy

... or some mashup of that shouldn't be off the table either.

 

[PredsV82]

Tolvanen definitely starts in Milwaukee. Can see Freddie being trade bait or waiver wire fodder. Salomaki seems to be favored though um not sure why. Carr probably starts the season up here otherwise why give him a 1 way deal...

 

[Predsanddead24]

Last year Bonino averaged more TOI than Turris but pretty much everyone not on the top line was very close in TOI. If Turris wants more playing time, there's an easy way to get that...

Last year is a little odd due to all the injuries plus special teams deployment changes overall ice time too. Turris has had ~1 minute more TOI than the 3rd liners. Not super huge but it does make a difference. More important than that though is their deployment. Turris had 68% offensive zone starts versus 30.4 % Bonino. Ultimately, someone has to take those defensive zone starts and I don't see why would reduce the favorable starts for our top two lines in order to give it to a third line. Realistically even if we are rolling three scoring lines being on the third scoring line is still a less favorable position than being on the second scoring line and it isn't going to help his numbers. And sure Turris could just play better to get more ice time, but that doesn't really fix the issue of if he's playing poorly again we're stuck with an underachieving $6 million/yr player for four more seasons.