[Official] Fire/Tolerate Travis Green Thread

[LordBacon]

Correct me if I’m wrong, I remember the signing of our 3 recent ufa was heavily influenced by our head coach (at least rousell was) because they “worked hard and provided toughness.” But when the perfect opportunity to utilise them shows up, you put your tail between your legs and back off!? “Securing” 2points when the coach himself said the team isn’t even near playoff contention. This kind of stuff is wrong on so many levels it’s making me sick, I’m fine with the team losing because we’re currently rebuilding, im fine with sending prospects to our farm team because they aren’t ready. But I can’t take this sh*t. My heart is torn right now. I love the team but when your favourite team in all sports is acting like freaking Girl Scouts it makes it so embarrassing to be a fan. I hope EP is fine, they already messed up boeser, we can’t afford to lose another young star . (Apologies for my poor grammar, I’m from Asia)

 

[StreetHawk]

This seems a little irrational. Yes Travis Green dropped the ball not defending Pettersson but situations like this you look for the leaders on your team to take action. You think Bieksa or Kesler or Burrows let's that go?
Nope.
The leadership group hear needs to step up. Guys like Bo, Edler and Tanev need to set examples for the rest of the group. And where was "big balls" Sutter? You can't pin it all on the coach. Times like this show why we don't have a captain.

Did anyone do anything to Keith after the elbow to Daniel in 2012? All 3 guys were on the roster until the end of 2014. I can’t recal Keith fighting. It would have been a big deal.

I’m of the philosophy that you should try to win the war and sacrifice a battle to do so.

Compare the thinking between Calgary and Vancouver. Hamonic goes looking for
Gudbranson on the next couple of shifts. Doesn’t get an instigator. But he gets hurt and is lost for a couple of weeks. Canucks opt to do nothing.

Compare the situations. Calgary is a bubble playoff team. So, they didn’t get hurt in terms of getting a penalty on the pay back. But, they get hurt by not having Hamonic in the lineup for 2-4 weeks.

Vancouver is not a playoff team. So, even taking a penalty there doesn’t impact their season. Neither does losing a player to injury should they lose the fight.

If you’re a top team like TB, Nash, Win, etc. You can afford to drop a game to take care of business. Should someone go down in a fight, you still expect to continue on. Ideally that is why to have a 4th line guy who can step up to fight if need be.

Roussel, guy is coming off his own concussion, missing like 5 weeks. Not surprised that he didn’t do anything. Honestly, I would expect to do anything in the future either.

In the end, nothing is really going to deter someone from doing that. Teams no longer carry that 6’4 235 lb pure fighting who dances 15 plus times a year. It’s smaler guys who maybe do it 3-5 times a year.

But, you still need to make sure that you aren’t looked at as a team that “lets the league take care of it” especially if you don’t ha e anything to lose by dealing with it yourself.

 

[EpochLink]

A fire Travis Green thread...

Yeah, not gonna say anything about this.
Jumping off.

 

[pgj98m3]

Correct me if I’m wrong, I remember the signing of our 3 recent ufa was heavily influenced by our head coach (at least rousell was) because they “worked hard and provided toughness.” But when the perfect opportunity to utilise them shows up, you put your tail between your legs and back off!? “Securing” 2points when the coach himself said the team isn’t even near playoff contention. This kind of stuff is wrong on so many levels it’s making me sick, I’m fine with the team losing because we’re currently rebuilding, im fine with sending prospects to our farm team because they aren’t ready. But I can’t take this sh*t. My heart is torn right now. I love the team but when your favourite team in all sports is acting like freaking Girl Scouts it makes it so embarrassing to be a fan. I hope EP is fine, they already messed up boeser, we can’t afford to lose another young star . (Apologies for my poor grammar, I’m from Asia)

Your grammar is better than most and your take is right on.

 

[StreetHawk]

Honestly, the Canucks over the past several seasons have initiated more fights to stand up for lower end guys than their top guys.

I recall last year Dorset against NJ did that for a linemate. Now, that’s an immediate response which you like to see. But even if it’s not your linemate, what is the mentality that runs through that team?

Matheson is listed at 6’2 193 lbs. he’s no monster like a Lucic. So, what really is your risk if you are a schaller or beagle?

And what was with green? At 7 minutes to go there was like 3 quick whistles and Matheson was on the ice, and he chooses to leave the Horvat line out and a non gudbranson D pair. That was th perfect Chance to send out your guys. If boughner takes Matheson off the ice at that point, then what can you do, but at least set that up,

 

[Zippgunn]

I'm no fan of Green but here he proved to be smarter than Marc Crowfish. Green is painfully aware that, while Crawford did what the fire breathers in his fanbase wanted him to do it ultimately cost him his job and he hasn't had an NHL head coaching job since. Green hasn't got a Cup ring on his resume so he knows which side his bread is buttered on; he's not going to commit career suicide for a bunch of hate crazed lunatics, most of whom don't seem to even like this team in the first place. Also remember that to an NHL coach the only "useless" two points are the ones you earn after you have been eliminated from the playoffs which, last I checked, hasn't happened just yet. Blaming Benning, Guddy or Horvat is asinine; anybody with a brain knew that Pete would get clocked eventually. Now that it has happened we have to move on. Forget about January.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

okay, biggest non-retaliations in canucks history—

1. 1994, game 6, stanley cup finals. messier cheap shots linden away from the play in the dying seconds with linden already down on the ice. canucks up 4-1 and on the verge of forcing game 7, linden nursing broken ribs, which everyone on the canucks bench knows about. pat quinn physically restrains momesso from jumping on the ice and (i assume) attacking guys as at random.

2. 2011, game 4, stanley cup finals. marchand hits daniel sedin low, ballard goes after him and gets pulled off by big scary adam mcquaid. the biggest canuck on the ice, victor oreskovich, voluntarily ends his own career by standing there and doing nothing because he's still mad that no one hugged him in chicago. bruins up 4-0 in the game and on the verge of evening the series. canucks score three goals in the remaining three games.

3. 2011, game 6, stanley cup finals. daniel, end of sentence.

man oh man, i love how we're at the point now where we're all "man i wish crawford, brad may, and bertuzzi were still here." but what the hell, fire green, bertuzzi for coach. and if garth snow can be a GM why not brad may?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Daft thread,and a complete overreaction....

 

[M2Beezy]

This seems a little irrational. Yes Travis Green dropped the ball not defending Pettersson but situations like this you look for the leaders on your team to take action. You think Bieksa or Kesler or Burrows let's that go?
Nope.
The leadership group hear needs to step up. Guys like Bo, Edler and Tanev need to set examples for the rest of the group. And where was "big balls" Sutter? You can't pin it all on the coach. Times like this show why we don't have a captain.

Yeah, imagine how much it would bring the team together if a non tough guy like Edler or Tanev went after Matheson. I think that could have been the best thing for the team, just thinking about it makes me really doubt the 4 assistant captain leadership group we have. Just really wish one of them would have got some rage and done something when the opportunity came

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

Yeah, imagine how much it would bring the team together if a non tough guy like Edler or Tanev went after Matheson. I think that could have been the best thing for the team, just thinking about it makes me really doubt the 4 assistant captain leadership group we have. Just really wish one of them would have got some rage and done something when the opportunity came

Yeah. That kind of thing sends a message for sure. It also takes huge brass balls though, and I guess that's what we're missing.

 

[SillyRabbit]

The bottom line is that if players know that nothing will happen to them, there’s absolutely no reason why this exact same thing won’t happen to Pettersson the next time he steps on to the ice.

 

[LeftCoast]

The dirty part of the hit on Pettersson (the body/head slam) happened behind the play (but right in front of the ref). I doubt anyone on the ice (Eriksson, Goldobin, Pouliot and Stecher) was aware that Pettesson was hurt. So I can't blame the players on the ice much for not responding.

After the fact there are 2 schools of thought - regardless of the score and game situation, some hold that Green should have sent out Gudbransson to send a message to the Panthers. In days past, this was an automatic and an ingrained part of hockey tradition. The other camp says it's a tie game on the road and you take a number and save if for the next match up.

I'm in a different camp. I don't believe either approach is effective. Run the hypotheticals - keeping in mind that Matheson is NOT a fighter.

Scenario 1 - Next shift Erik Gudbranson (heavy weight) or Antoine Roussel (middle weight) comes out and throws down with Matheson.
Scenario 2 - Next game (mid January) the same thing happens. The only difference might depend on how long Pettersson is out of the line up. If Pettersson is seriously concussed or hurt (as in the Naslund/Bertuzzi/Moore) incident, the situation could get out of control, and no one wants a repeat of that scenario.

Either way, Matheson has good size (6'2" 210lb) so he fits kind of in between Roussel (6'1" 200lb) and Gudbransson (6'5" 220lb) but Matheson is not a fighter. He has has 1 hockey fight - against David Backes after Backes took Trochek's head off with a blindside head shot. Matheson was right there and went after Backes, and drew an instigator penalty. If Matheson were to be grossly over-matched vs Guddy or Roussel - his teammates are not going to let the fight happen, someone more capable would step up for MM. But since MM is a big boy, they would likely let them go. Both Roussel and Gudbransson are far more experienced fighters. B

ut would Matheson answer the bell? If yes - everyone is happy - the Canucks symbolically stood up for their teammate, for the Panthers, Matheson abides by the 'code'. No one (other than Pettersson) is hurt and the Don Cherry fans all thump their chests and high five each other. Alternately, if Matheson (not a fighter) doesn't answer the bell, they push and shove, maybe draw a roughing penalty and everyone goes home frustrated. The talking heads discuss how the league has changed, etc. But either way, what was accomplished? Does the "message" sent to Matheson in particular or to the Panthers or other teams in general really resonate?

• Matheson is not known to be a dirty player, so any message sent to him is redundant.
• The Panthers are not a divisional rival, so the broader message is not directed at the Panthers, but at the league.
• In reality, the message becomes - "If you make a dirty play on our star player, our big goon is going to fight your big goon and Don Cherry or Nick Kypreos will talk about it on HNIC".
• Big F'n Deal.

I'm of the camp that says if you want frontier justice, you don't go after the dirty player. You go after their star player. A two-hander just above the gloves on Barkov, Huberdeau or Ekblad's wrist or an elbow to their heads would send a far more effective message. Because the other crap simply doesn't work. But if you're not prepared for that level of escalating violence (because the other team can always respond in kind) then you let the league handle it.

 

[vanarchy]

This took longer than expected.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Oh, you guys

I'm of the camp that says if you want frontier justice, you don't go after the dirty player. You go after their star player. A two-hander just above the gloves on Barkov, Huberdeau or Ekblad's wrist or an elbow to their heads would send a far more effective message.

 

[TraderJim]

A fire Travis Green thread...

Yeah, not gonna say anything about this.
Jumping off.

You have posted that you are going to leave 4 times already in other threads. Talk about drama.

 

[EpochLink]

You have posted that you are going to leave 4 times already in other threads. Talk about drama.

This board is full of drama..
Hence my backing out is a good thing for my mental sanity..

 

[Nomobo]

What makes this thread official as opposed to the last one?

 

[LeftCoast]

Oh, you guys

Perhaps my point wasn't clear enough. The goon fighting good crap is not a deterrent at all. It's just entertainment for an important segment of the market. If you want an on the ice deterrent, you have to be prepared for a blood bath - going after the other team's stars and them going after ours. That would (eventually) work. But I doubt many have the stomach for it. So short of the blood bath - let the league handle the discipline.

 

[Fire Benning]

It's going to suck when these two points somehow factor into the Canucks losing the lottery.

 

[Zippgunn]

The dirty part of the hit on Pettersson (the body/head slam) happened behind the play (but right in front of the ref). I doubt anyone on the ice (Eriksson, Goldobin, Pouliot and Stecher) was aware that Pettesson was hurt. So I can't blame the players on the ice much for not responding.

After the fact there are 2 schools of thought - regardless of the score and game situation, some hold that Green should have sent out Gudbransson to send a message to the Panthers. In days past, this was an automatic and an ingrained part of hockey tradition. The other camp says it's a tie game on the road and you take a number and save if for the next match up.

I'm in a different camp. I don't believe either approach is effective. Run the hypotheticals - keeping in mind that Matheson is NOT a fighter.

Scenario 1 - Next shift Erik Gudbranson (heavy weight) or Antoine Roussel (middle weight) comes out and throws down with Matheson.
Scenario 2 - Next game (mid January) the same thing happens. The only difference might depend on how long Pettersson is out of the line up. If Pettersson is seriously concussed or hurt (as in the Naslund/Bertuzzi/Moore) incident, the situation could get out of control, and no one wants a repeat of that scenario.

Either way, Matheson has good size (6'2" 210lb) so he fits kind of in between Roussel (6'1" 200lb) and Gudbransson (6'5" 220lb) but Matheson is not a fighter. He has has 1 hockey fight - against David Backes after Backes took Trochek's head off with a blindside head shot. Matheson was right there and went after Backes, and drew an instigator penalty. If Matheson were to be grossly over-matched vs Guddy or Roussel - his teammates are not going to let the fight happen, someone more capable would step up for MM. But since MM is a big boy, they would likely let them go. Both Roussel and Gudbransson are far more experienced fighters. B

ut would Matheson answer the bell? If yes - everyone is happy - the Canucks symbolically stood up for their teammate, for the Panthers, Matheson abides by the 'code'. No one (other than Pettersson) is hurt and the Don Cherry fans all thump their chests and high five each other. Alternately, if Matheson (not a fighter) doesn't answer the bell, they push and shove, maybe draw a roughing penalty and everyone goes home frustrated. The talking heads discuss how the league has changed, etc. But either way, what was accomplished? Does the "message" sent to Matheson in particular or to the Panthers or other teams in general really resonate?

• Matheson is not known to be a dirty player, so any message sent to him is redundant.
• The Panthers are not a divisional rival, so the broader message is not directed at the Panthers, but at the league.
• In reality, the message becomes - "If you make a dirty play on our star player, our big goon is going to fight your big goon and Don Cherry or Nick Kypreos will talk about it on HNIC".
• Big F'n Deal.

I'm of the camp that says if you want frontier justice, you don't go after the dirty player. You go after their star player. A two-hander just above the gloves on Barkov, Huberdeau or Ekblad's wrist or an elbow to their heads would send a far more effective message. Because the other crap simply doesn't work. But if you're not prepared for that level of escalating violence (because the other team can always respond in kind) then you let the league handle it.

A truly sensible post; thank you for being an island of sanity in an ocean of idiocy.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

What happened to the "safe environment" that signing Beagle/Schaller/Rousell was supposed to provided? All summer we've been told that these UFAs are necessary so the young skill guys get to play their game. Going to be hard for Petterson to play from the IR.
Good job JB! Money well spent!

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It's going to suck when these two points somehow factor into the Canucks losing the lottery.

You talking about last nights win?

 

[pgj98m3]

You talking about last nights win?

No...he was obviously talking about the pre-season.....duh!

 

[Scott Stevens]

It’s probably been mentioned, but whatever. Botchford, in last nights Athletties, told us what Green didn’t. Green said Matheson isn’t some dirty player, citing his one career fight. Botchford revealed why Matheson was in that fight. Standing up for a teammate after a dirty hit.

I’m so disgusted with this team from top to bottom right now. Gutless isn’t strong enough to describe their lack of everything it means to be a team.

 

[Grub]

You talking about last nights win?

Did you just post that for the sake of posting? I mean... it's not that hard to figure out what he meant.