[Official] Fire/Tolerate Travis Green Thread

[David Bruce Banner]

The fact that Babcock might be getting the axe is just further evidence that good coaches are the product of good teams rather than the other way around.

 

[F A N]

The fact that Babcock might be getting the axe is just further evidence that good coaches are the product of good teams rather than the other way around.

I don't think that's the case. I think most coaches have a shelf life and with some shorter than others. When AV was here, there was a stat floating around that pointed out that no coaches have managed to win a Cup with their current team if they did not win one within the first 5? years of joining the organization. Granted most coaches get fired within the first 5 years anyways.

Some coaches are better at taking bad teams to the playoffs while some coaches are better at taking good teams deep in the playoffs. I think Babcock's record speaks for itself. He's lost a lot of times in the first round but he has also missed the playoffs only twice in his NHL career. That's quite an accomplishment.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I don't think that's the case. I think most coaches have a shelf life and with some shorter than others. When AV was here, there was a stat floating around that pointed out that no coaches have managed to win a Cup with their current team if they did not win one within the first 5? years of joining the organization. Granted most coaches get fired within the first 5 years anyways.

Some coaches are better at taking bad teams to the playoffs while some coaches are better at taking good teams deep in the playoffs. I think Babcock's record speaks for itself. He's lost a lot of times in the first round but he has also missed the playoffs only twice in his NHL career. That's quite an accomplishment.

Shelf life definitely comes into it, but all coaches have foibles that are magnified when they are coaching a bad team and hidden when they have better players to utilize.

My feeling is that most coaches, once they get to the NHL, are basically at the middle of a bell curve of competence... after that, some of them get lucky and some of them get unlucky.

Sure Green makes some questionable moves, but so does Babcock, Vigneault, Cooper and pretty much every other coach... especially in hindsight after a loss.

So does Green need to be let go? Well, yeah sure he’s probably overstayed his welcome... but then again so has Benning. Ideally when the dust has settled at the end of the year, both are gone, we have a top 5 pick, and we have some new blood in place at the helm.

Now, for the record, I feel most GM’s are only as good as the cards they’re dealt too... but I’m prepared to make an exception for Benning. I think he’s truly bad.

 

[F A N]

Shelf life definitely comes into it, but all coaches have foibles that are magnified when they are coaching a bad team and hidden when they have better players to utilize.

My feeling is that most coaches, once they get to the NHL, are basically at the middle of a bell curve of competence... after that, some of them get lucky and some of them get unlucky.

Sure Green makes some questionable moves, but so does Babcock, Vigneault, Cooper and pretty much every other coach... especially in hindsight after a loss.

So does Green need to be let go? Well, yeah sure he’s probably overstayed his welcome... but then again so has Benning. Ideally when the dust has settled at the end of the year, both are gone, we have a top 5 pick, and we have some new blood in place at the helm.

Now, for the record, I feel most GM’s are only as good as the cards they’re dealt too... but I’m prepared to make an exception for Benning. I think he’s truly bad.

I don't agree with your feelings on these matters. I think there are good and bad coaches and good and bad GMs. Both can make mistakes and are better equipped the second time around or as the years go on. A lot of it can be timing as well. A GM or a coach can be extremely stubborn and their methods can be better fit for certain rosters or during certain eras.

I don't see Green as a coach who adapts his system and style of play to the roster. There's a certain style that he likes his team to play and he now has more players capable of playing that style. The evaluation then in terms of Green is what he can do with a roster that should be good enough to make the playoffs. He obviously didn't and couldn't coach a bad roster and get them to the playoffs.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Are they, in fact, good enough to make the playoffs though? Could a "good coach" get this squad into the playoffs? I'm not so sure.

And as for situational "goodness"... at least in terms of GM's, I direct your attention Jim Rutherford who's been both a numbskull and a smart guy depending upon whether his team is winning the Stanley Cup or spiraling the toilet bowl. Same likewise George McPhee and Ken Holland. As for coaches... how good a coach, exactly, is Craig Berube? Guess it depends on whether he's sucking in Philly or winning in St. Louis.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's totally situational... I do believe that in certain situations an NHL coach can move the needle... but by and large I think they generally get more credit (good and bad) than they deserve. And yes, some are better than others, but I don't believe that, barring the rare out-lier, there is a whole lot a difference between most of them.

 

[Breakers]

Green embarrassing the hell out himself with these line combinations

 

[tantalum]

Green embarrassing the hell out himself with these line combinations

I mentioned in the game thread that he has to do something. They are not good at ES. The blender is what he has at his disposal. That doesn’t excuse things like overplaying some players etc but I’m not surprised with the line blender right now.

 

[Fire Benning]

Fire his ass

 

[xtra]

I’ll say This much. If Babcock is fired we should be talking to him and if he agrees letting green go to replace hin

 

[Green Blank Stare]

I mentioned in the game thread that he has to do something. They are not good at ES. The blender is what he has at his disposal. That doesn’t excuse things like overplaying some players etc but I’m not surprised with the line blender right now.

Hell no. This team has quite a few new players since the last month of last season. They need set lines so they can develop chemistry. Green's just rolling dice and sending three guys out there half the game.

His system is way too conservative for this roster. They should be playing fast and with pace/space so their young talent can operate with some freedom. Their defense is just play back and let teams come after them with rush after rush.

They're giving up constant rushes anyway so why aren't they playing loose and free? Have the D pinch more to force the issue and try to create more rush opportunities for your own team.

 

[tantalum]

Hell no. This team has quite a few new players since the last month of last season. They need set lines so they can develop chemistry. Green's just rolling dice and sending three guys out there half the game.

His system is way too conservative for this roster. They should be playing fast and with pace/space so their young talent can operate with some freedom. Their defense is just play back and let teams come after them with rush after rush.

They're giving up constant rushes anyway so why aren't they playing loose and free? Have the D pinch more to force the issue and try to create more rush opportunities for your own team.

they had set lines. They were performing so somehow chemistry wasn’t an issue the first 10 games. They simply stopped performing or rather the competition got better. So he tries something. Believe me I think he’s just an awful coach but this team has looked to be on the decline for several weeks now. The blender was going to come out.

In the end has little to do with new bodies etc. It has to do with lack of offensive talent. It has to do with a system being forced on a roster that isn’t capable of playing it. This is not a roster that will be capable of successfully playing a run and gun or heavy body forecheck game. But that is what they are trying to do. They don’t have the talent. They don’t have the blueline for it. They don’t have the consistent speed and size on the wings. It’s a team that actually needs to trap or sit back in tight defensive system and score off the rush on counter attacks (which is where most of their scoring comes from). It’s a roster that actually needs to be coached by someone like Tippett. But they’ve cheaped out on coaching for 6 years now.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

they had set lines. They were performing so somehow chemistry wasn’t an issue the first 10 games. They simply stopped performing or rather the competition got better. So he tries something. Believe me I think he’s just an awful coach but this team has looked to be on the decline for several weeks now. The blender was going to come out.

In the end has little to do with new bodies etc. It has to do with lack of offensive talent. It has to do with a system being forced on a roster that isn’t capable of playing it. This is not a roster that will be capable of successfully playing a run and gun or heavy body forecheck game. But that is what they are trying to do. They don’t have the talent. They don’t have the blueline for it. They don’t have the consistent speed and size on the wings. It’s a team that actually needs to trap or sit back in tight defensive system and score off the rush on counter attacks (which is where most of their scoring comes from). It’s a roster that actually needs to be coached by someone like Tippett. But they’ve cheaped out on coaching for 6 years now.

You can't panic one month into the season and start juggling lines. They're still in a playoff spot at the moment. There's ebbs and flows, ups and downs to every season. You can't panic every time the team hits a rough patch.

 

[tantalum]

You can't panic one month into the season and start juggling lines. They're still in a playoff spot at the moment. There's ebbs and flows, ups and downs to every season. You can't panic every time the team hits a rough patch.

I guarantee there is not a team in this league that hasn’t juggled lines. The first team you can look at is the one that just whipped the Canucks tonight who have made significant line changes.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

I guarantee there is not a team in this league that hasn’t juggled lines. The first team you can look at is the one that just whipped the Canucks tonight who have made significant line changes.

All their best players besides Heiskanen are vets in their late 20s or 30s. This team's most talented players are 20-24. They need time to grow.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Watch Green demote our top 6 players and scratch Gaudette for no reason

 

[VanJack]

Sometimes a coach just runs his course with a team. Green a quarter of the way through his third season behind the bench. And this November is looking a lot like the two seasons which preceded it.

A soft-as-butter schedule in October gives way to the 'reality of November' where the Canucks are playing a group of teams who all made the playoffs last season, and are likely to do so again.

I'm not saying that a coaching change is necessarily going to turn this season around.....but it sure worked last season for the Blues who sacked Yeo and made Berube the interim coach. And they were dead last in the entire NHL when it happened.

 

[timw33]

IMO Benning can't outlive Green, if Green goes, Benning goes. He's hired two of the most small-time, in-over-their-head coaches in the last decade.

 

[Canucks1096]

IMO Benning can't outlive Green, if Green goes, Benning goes. He's hired two of the most small-time, in-over-their-head coaches in the last decade.

I think Linden was the one that wanted Willy. Not sure about Green

 

[y2kcanucks]

Let the new GM fire him.

 

[mathonwy]

Josh Leivo on a 5 on 3?

Get that bush league crap outta here.

 

[David71]

time to can travis green. tired of him throwing names in a hat and making sure it sticks.

 

[Seattle Totems]

FIRE THE GM.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

If he becomes available I’d like to see Mike Babcock behind the bench. We have the coachable stars and the horses he needs to succeed as a coach and the intangibles and character and culture that would fit well with his style of coaching. Can probably get him cheap too if the Leafs are already paying him 6+ per year. His tenure in Toronto might not be indicative of his ability as a coach - what’s more likely that a group of entitled teen/early 20s multimillionaire superstar jocks aren’t buying into a humble grind it out style of play that’s so crucial in the playoffs? Or Babcock, who has achieved everything a coach could ever achieve, is responsible for the soft gutless effort his team is putting in on the ice? I say the former and I’d love to give Babcock a shot here to see what he can do here.

 

[vanuck]

Josh Leivo on a 5 on 3?

Get that bush league crap outta here.

You know you've lost the plot when Leivo is out there on a 5v3...

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I’ll say This much. If Babcock is fired we should be talking to him and if he agrees letting green go to replace hin

ITS HAPPENING BOYS