Speculation: Official Fantasy Trade Offers Thread 3

[IM Clutcm]

That's because the team has evolved from last year, specifically Bjugstad and Trocheck. We're very strong on defense and in net. Our weakness is scoring and I want to address that by moving potential.

Anyway, we have different philosophies. I think we should move high end prospects/young players similar to what LA did to get over the hump and go with a more sure thing and you'd rather wait out potential, hoping it evolves into a sure thing.

My philosophy is that centers are more valuable than wingers. It has nothing to do with falling in love with prospects and potential.

 

[RainingRats]

A one-dimenstional winger is more valuable than a two-way center? The Kings win without having PPG players, and the Panthers are built to be just like that. A guy like Kessel isn't someone who can win a playoff series for a team. Barkov is.

I never said a one dimensional winger is more valuable than a two way center. And trading Barkov doesn't mean we don't have two way centers. This is what you all seem to also not understand. Bjugstad, Shore, Trocheck, and Bolland all can play two way games.

Also, Kessel is one of the top scorers in the league over the past few years. Ask Chicago how many cups they'd have without Kane. You need scoring wingers too. Kings had Gaborik.

 

[RainingRats]

My philosophy is that centers are more valuable than wingers. It has nothing to do with falling in love with prospects and potential.

They are. I also think proven elite players are more valuable than elite potential.

 

[IM Clutcm]

I never said a one dimensional winger is more valuable than a two way center. And trading Barkov doesn't mean we don't have two way centers. This is what you all seem to also not understand. Bjugstad, Shore, Trocheck, and Bolland all can play two way games.

Also, Kessel is one of the top scorers in the league over the past year. Ask Chicago how cups they'd have without Kane. You need scoring wingers too. Kings had Gaborik.

Kane wasn't the reason they won those Cups. He's an extremely valuable player, but they don't win without Keith, Toews, and Crawford/Niemi. I also think Kane is significantly better than Kessel, but that's another conversation.

Bjugstad, Trocheck, Shore, and Bolland is an average center core. Shore has a ceiling of a 3rd (maybe 2nd) line center, Trocheck is a 2nd line center (maybe 1st line winger?), and we all know Bolland. Bjugstad is probably an above average 1st line center. That's nothing that will intimidate other teams.

 

[RainingRats]

Kane wasn't the reason they won those Cups. He's an extremely valuable player, but they don't win without Keith, Toews, and Crawford/Niemi. I also think Kane is significantly better than Kessel, but that's another conversation.

Bjugstad, Trocheck, Shore, and Bolland is an average center core. Shore has a ceiling of a 3rd (maybe 2nd) line center, Trocheck is a 2nd line center (maybe 1st line winger?), and we all know Bolland. Bjugstad is probably an above average 1st line center. That's nothing that will intimidate other teams.

They don't win without Kane either. It's a team game! Come on. That's crazy. You know, the guy who scored the CUP WINNING GOAL.

Sorry but Shore who is scoring at almost a ppg pace in the AHL, definitely has second line center potential. Our center core has the POTENTIAL without Barkov to certainly be above average.

 

[RainingRats]

And for some perspective... I know everyone develops at a different pace.

Kopitar in his first two years after being drafted -

year 1 - 20 goals, 61 points in 72 games
year 2 - 32 goals, 77 points in 82 games

And just out of curiosity, I looked at other #1 centers like Bergeron, Toews, Getzalf and he's behind them as well. This could all certainly change but he's on more of a Stephen Weiss trajectory, imo right now. It could change, no doubt. But he's more likely to be a 50 point defensively responsible second line center than a true #1.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

I never said a one dimensional winger is more valuable than a two way center. And trading Barkov doesn't mean we don't have two way centers. This is what you all seem to also not understand. Bjugstad, Shore, Trocheck, and Bolland all can play two way games.

Also, Kessel is one of the top scorers in the league over the past few years. Ask Chicago how many cups they'd have without Kane. You need scoring wingers too. Kings had Gaborik.

We are not winning a cup right now with Barkov or Kessel. Don't trade away a 19 potential #1C to not win a cup just because we lack scoring this season. That's being impatient and short sighted, and knee jerk. All the wrong things to be when building a team.

 

[RainingRats]

We are not winning a cup right now with Barkov or Kessel. Don't trade away a 19 potential #1C to not win a cup just because we lack scoring this season. That's being impatient and short sighted, and knee jerk. All the wrong things to be when building a team.

We have no ppg players in the system either. The lack of respect Kessel gets on our board is crazy. He would instantly become our best forward by a huge margin for the foreseeable future. It's not short sighted or knee jerk.

 

[I am not exposed]

We are not winning a cup right now with Barkov or Kessel. Don't trade away a 19 potential #1C to not win a cup just because we lack scoring this season. That's being impatient and short sighted, and knee jerk. All the wrong things to be when building a team.

Exactly.

 

[pb1300]

Guys, if Toronto asked for Barkov as the main piece for Kessel, you seriously have to consider that. Kessel is one of the premier RWs in the game, he adds 35+ goals a season to this team, and is easily much more marketable. It might turn out to be a win-win situation for both teams down the road, but it would be a clear win for the Panthers right now.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

We have no ppg players in the system either. The lack of respect Kessel gets on our board is crazy. He would instantly become our best forward by a huge margin for the foreseeable future. It's not short sighted or knee jerk.

Neither did LA or Chicago or Boston...

Toronto has had one though, so has Dallas, Tampa, and so on.

 

[RainingRats]

Neither did LA or Chicago or Boston...

Toronto has had one though, so has Dallas, Tampa, and so on.

Chicago had Kane and Sharp. They also went out got Hossa. LA acquired Gaborik. Not even sure what your point is. Are you suggesting teams that have PPG scorers do not win the cup?

 

[CoolburnIsGone]

We are not winning a cup right now with Barkov or Kessel. Don't trade away a 19 potential #1C to not win a cup just because we lack scoring this season. That's being impatient and short sighted, and knee jerk. All the wrong things to be when building a team.

I think people are also being short sighted with Kessel. The guy just turned 27 yrs old and is signed for 7 more yrs. Acquiring him isn't just about this yr and trying for a cup. This is a move for the long term building of a team so not short sighted at all. Maybe not this yr but in the next 3-4 seasons, he could just as easily help us win a Cup, probably even more so than Barkov is 3-4 yrs I bet.

People also seem to forget when they reference Chicago as a 2-time Cup winner that they never had 2 top 6 line centers. They had Toews and basically fill-ins so you don't need 2 centers, just one really good one.

With Bjugstad emerging, it seems like we have one and it's hard to say we "need" 2 top 6 centers really to be a contender. We do need to score more goals so that has to be addressed or we will never win a cup with this core. Chicago had at least 2 elite caliber wingers on their cup teams so we need to add those types if we want to start thinking that we can chase a cup in a few yrs.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Chicago had Kane and Sharp. They also went out got Hossa. LA acquired Gaborik. Not even sure what your point is. Are you suggesting teams that have PPG scorers do not win the cup?

I'm suggesting not trading the farm to get one player. That does not move us forward as an organization.

 

[RainingRats]

I'm suggesting not trading the farm to get one player. That does not move us forward as an organization.

link to anyone suggesting trading the farm?

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

link to anyone suggesting trading the farm?

So how are we getting Kessel?

 

[RainingRats]

So how are we getting Kessel?

Barkov, first round pick, Matheson? Not sure what the other pieces would be. I'd hardly consider that would be selling the farm since we have so many young players and prospects.

 

[RainingRats]

I think people are also being short sighted with Kessel. The guy just turned 27 yrs old and is signed for 7 more yrs. Acquiring him isn't just about this yr and trying for a cup. This is a move for the long term building of a team so not short sighted at all. Maybe not this yr but in the next 3-4 seasons, he could just as easily help us win a Cup, probably even more so than Barkov is 3-4 yrs I bet.

People also seem to forget when they reference Chicago as a 2-time Cup winner that they never had 2 top 6 line centers. They had Toews and basically fill-ins so you don't need 2 centers, just one really good one.

With Bjugstad emerging, it seems like we have one and it's hard to say we "need" 2 top 6 centers really to be a contender. We do need to score more goals so that has to be addressed or we will never win a cup with this core. Chicago had at least 2 elite caliber wingers on their cup teams so we need to add those types if we want to start thinking that we can chase a cup in a few yrs.

Great post.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Barkov, first round pick, Matheson? Not sure what the other pieces would be. I'd hardly consider that would be selling the farm since we have so many young players and prospects.

That's not something I would be comfortable giving up. Again, with Kessel we are not winning the cup this season. Then we don't have Barkov, Matheson, and our 1st this season, plus we would need to add to that to get Kessel (that 1st would be middle of the 1st round). That leaves us with the team we have now with Kessel minus Barkov, and nothing that great coming up the pipe. We're the Toronto Maple Leafs for the next few years then we have to rebuild.

 

[IM Clutcm]

I think people are also being short sighted with Kessel. The guy just turned 27 yrs old and is signed for 7 more yrs. Acquiring him isn't just about this yr and trying for a cup. This is a move for the long term building of a team so not short sighted at all. Maybe not this yr but in the next 3-4 seasons, he could just as easily help us win a Cup, probably even more so than Barkov is 3-4 yrs I bet.

People also seem to forget when they reference Chicago as a 2-time Cup winner that they never had 2 top 6 line centers. They had Toews and basically fill-ins so you don't need 2 centers, just one really good one.

With Bjugstad emerging, it seems like we have one and it's hard to say we "need" 2 top 6 centers really to be a contender. We do need to score more goals so that has to be addressed or we will never win a cup with this core. Chicago had at least 2 elite caliber wingers on their cup teams so we need to add those types if we want to start thinking that we can chase a cup in a few yrs.

Get back to me when this team has wingers that are of the same caliber as Kane, Sharp, Hossa, etc. That trade for Kessel gives them one, and it removes the top prospect in the system, a potential top line center, and a chance to add a guy like Sprong/Svechnikov/Korostelev, etc. This team will not be sexy in its prime, it will look like the Kings. Strong defensively and in goal, very strong and big down the middle, and average on the wings. Talk all you want about Gaborik, but he's no longer a PPG player.

 

[RainingRats]

Get back to me when this team has wingers that are of the same caliber as Kane, Sharp, Hossa, etc. That trade for Kessel gives them one, and it removes the top prospect in the system, a potential top line center, and a chance to add a guy like Sprong/Svechnikov/Korostelev, etc. This team will not be sexy in its prime, it will look like the Kings. Strong defensively and in goal, very strong and big down the middle, and average on the wings. Talk all you want about Gaborik, but he's no longer a PPG player.

I would think the guy who built the Blackhawks would probably try the same formula here.

Adding Kessel gets us one step closer to being a contender. He will help with the PP, Hubs' production will increase immediately. Having Kessel on the top line will free up second line players to not have to face the other team's best defensive players.

 

[RainingRats]

That's not something I would be comfortable giving up. Again, with Kessel we are not winning the cup this season. Then we don't have Barkov, Matheson, and our 1st this season, plus we would need to add to that to get Kessel (that 1st would be middle of the 1st round). That leaves us with the team we have now with Kessel minus Barkov, and nothing that great coming up the pipe. We're the Toronto Maple Leafs for the next few years then we have to rebuild.

Kessel is signed for 7 more years in his prime years. Not sure why you're fixated on him being my reason for us winning the cup or why we'd be winning it this year.

 

[IM Clutcm]

I would think the guy who built the Blackhawks would probably try the same formula here.

Adding Kessel gets us one step closer to being a contender. He will help with the PP, Hubs' production will increase immediately. Having Kessel on the top line will free up second line players to not have to face the other team's best defensive players.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you. I don't think Kessel is better for this team long term when you remove Barkov, Matheson, and the first.

He's copied the Kings' blueprint when you look at his draft history. Gudbranson, Ekblad, Bjugstad, McCoshen, Barkov, Howden. They're all big, strong guys that are two-way players (except Gudbranson).

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Kessel is signed for 7 more years in his prime years. Not sure why you're fixated on him being my reason for us winning the cup or why we'd be winning it this year.

Then why make the trade? That's a huge trade to make, giving up on Barkov when he 19, changing the direction of the team you are trying to build because we have trouble scoring this season. I don't care about Kessel being signed for 7 years, I'm concerned about the next 3 years with Kessel, because that's how long we will have before he starts to decline.

 

[pb1300]

Get back to me when this team has wingers that are of the same caliber as Kane, Sharp, Hossa, etc. That trade for Kessel gives them one, and it removes the top prospect in the system, a potential top line center, and a chance to add a guy like Sprong/Svechnikov/Korostelev, etc. This team will not be sexy in its prime, it will look like the Kings. Strong defensively and in goal, very strong and big down the middle, and average on the wings. Talk all you want about Gaborik, but he's no longer a PPG player.

A "potential" top line center is not the same thing as a top line winger, who is just entering his prime, scores 35+ goals a game, is a PPG player, and one of the premier top line talents in this league. You trade potential for a sure thing 99% of the time, and Barkov is not that 1% exception. Even without Barkov, you still have depth down the middle, but now you have someone that is feared every time he is on the ice, which is something no Panther does right now. I like Barkov a lot, but this truly is a no brainer.