Official Bryan Murray Discussion Thread

[Do Make Say Think]

Considering we basically can't spend very much for very long Murray has done a decent job

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

In terms of trading, he's a very good GM that knows how to take the next step.

He inherited Murray's team, happened to have the brother of a HOF defneseman who said HOF defenseman really wanted to help win a Stnaley Cup. And He had another HOF defenseman fall into his lap.

The Ducks are the exception to Burke's Legacy. The Vancouver's and Toronto's are more what he does.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Great guy, not a great GM.

Hopefully this is his last year. We need a Brian Burke-type guy to take over and push this team over the top like in Anaheim. We're a top 6 F and top 4 D away from contending, assuming Anderson is up to the task as the team's #1 goalie.

Have a look at Toronto... you're a fool if you think we need Brian Burke.

 

[Senscore]

People always forget he took charge of a declining team.

We were a Cup finalist team the summer he took over. Maybe we didn't have great prospects but surely a Cup finalist team would have more useful assets than most teams.


I'm also kind of surprised people keep leaning on financial restrictions. This team has always had financial restraints, for as long as its been around. Other GMs have done more with less.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We were a Cup finalist team the summer he took over. Maybe we didn't have great prospects but surely a Cup finalist team would have more useful assets than most teams.


I'm also kind of surprised people keep leaning on financial restrictions. This team has always had financial restraints, for as long as its been around. Other GMs have done more with less.

Players getting to UFA a lot sooner wrecked us

 

[DylanSensFan]

We were a Cup finalist team the summer he took over. Maybe we didn't have great prospects but surely a Cup finalist team would have more useful assets than most teams.


I'm also kind of surprised people keep leaning on financial restrictions. This team has always had financial restraints, for as long as its been around. Other GMs have done more with less.

We were a cup finalist with one really solid player... Daniel Alfredsson. As far as I am concerned the rest were flakes. Smolinski? I mean come on? Heatley left soon after and declined like a burnt out All-Star and Spezza was just Spezza. One does not win a cup with the Spezza's of the world, unless you surround him with Scott Neidermyer or versions there of.

 

[Othello*]

Financial restrictions should not be an excuse you're wasting money on bad veterans and fringe NHL players.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

He inherited Murray's team, happened to have the brother of a HOF defneseman who said HOF defenseman really wanted to help win a Stnaley Cup. And He had another HOF defenseman fall into his lap.

The Ducks are the exception to Burke's Legacy. The Vancouver's and Toronto's are more what he does.

That's why I didn't say he was the best team builder, but he knows how to take a team to the next step. He's brilliant when it comes to making trades.

Murray knows how to draft and develop a good foundation, but has never taken the steps to build an elite team.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Financial restrictions should not be an excuse you're wasting money on bad veterans and fringe NHL players.

You mean like Brian Burke did in Toronto? Tell me how are they doing these last few years?

 

[Othello*]

You mean like Brian Burke did in Toronto? Tell me how are they doing these last few years?

I don't give a **** about Toronto

 

[Senscore]

We were a cup finalist with one really solid player... Daniel Alfredsson. As far as I am concerned the rest were flakes. Smolinski? I mean come on? Heatley left soon after and declined like an burnt out All-Star and Spezza was just Spezza. One does not win a cup with the Spezza's of the world, unless you surround him with Scott Neidermyer or versions there of.

You're really going to try and downplay Spezza and Heatley? We had a Cup Final team. Clearly there were some pretty good pieces. When Murray got here he started a lot closer to the penthouse than the basement.

Thats an advantage any incoming GM would kill for.

 

[Xamar*]

We were a cup finalist with one really solid player... Daniel Alfredsson. As far as I am concerned the rest were flakes. Smolinski? I mean come on? Heatley left soon after and declined like a burnt out All-Star and Spezza was just Spezza. One does not win a cup with the Spezza's of the world, unless you surround him with Scott Neidermyer or versions there of.

Smoke got dumped before we made the finals...

 

[DylanSensFan]

You're really going to try and downplay Spezza and Heatley? We had a Cup Final team. Clearly there were some pretty good pieces. When Murray got here he started a lot closer to the penthouse than the basement.

Thats an advantage any incoming GM would kill for.

Am I really going to downplay a player who scored 50 goals twice and then fizzled into nothing, and then retirement... who might play for Ireland now? Who was Cheechoo on Steroids? Yes I am going to downplay Heatley. Because he took one shot at the cup and then wilted like so many flowers before him. Spezza is a hell of a player, but let me make this clear to you. He is not a champion... Alfredsson has the heart of a lion and should have won a championship here. Spezza has the heart of a canary who's sniffed too much coal. My only hope is that Karlsson and this group bring a cup to Alfredsson. Spezza wilted the first time he was the Captain here in Ottawa, he wanted out before this team even came back around. I have no love loss for Spezza.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I don't give a **** about Toronto

Then don't bring up Brian Burke... or maybe I will start talking about Vancouver. The other team he left, who made it to the finals once and then wilted.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Look at the notable trades Burke made as GM of the Leafs:

Stajan, Hagman, White for Phaneuf, Aulie
Two 1sts, 2nd for Kessel
Stalberg, Paradis, Didomenico for Versteeg, Sweatt
Beauchemin for Gardiner, Lupul
Versteeg for 1st, 3rd
Colborne, 1st, 2nd for Kaberle
Almost nothing for Franson
Schenn for Van Reimsdyk

It's incredible how often he straight up stole guys or got more-than-expected value for his players. He had no problem attracting free agents either, despite everyone knowing what a horrible place Toronto is to play in.

BM's notable trade history as a comparison:

Meszaros for Kuba, Picard, 1st
1st for Campoli, Comrie
Vermette for Leclaire, 2nd
Heatley for Michalek, Cheechoo, 2nd
Two 2nds for Cullen and Sutton
Fisher for 1st
Rundblad, 2nd for Turris
2nd for Bishop, then for Conacher a year later
Foligno for Methot
Silf, Noesen, 1st for Ryan
Spezza for Chiasson, Paul, 2nd
Lehner, Legwand for 21st OV

Some good there, a whole lot of bad though. Wonder what kind of returns Burke would have gotten for the players on that list. Have to imagine they'd be significantly better.

 

[Six Assets]

People always forget he took charge of a declining team.

That was 8 years ago. Enough time to rebuild a team into contenders.

 

[Othello*]

Then don't bring up Brian Burke... or maybe I will start talking about Vancouver. The other team he left, who made it to the finals once and then wilted.

Please quote the post where I mentioned him.

 

[Icelevel]

Honestly more stress and frustration than joy and excitement while he's been gm. And that's coming from an optimist and pretty serious NHL fan.

 

[Stylizer1]

Brian Murray was given the keys to a team someone else built. He convinced Melnyk he could do it better because it was only a matter of time before our decline. Him leaving the bench was the start of the decline. Every season after he purged a little more. Now our Farm is stocked after 4 seasons of a rebuild/retool.

After 8 year as GM he has completely rebuilt the roster minus Phillips and Neil. In 8 years what have we accomplished?

Playoffs 5 out of 8 years
won 1 round of the playoffs
Jack Adams winner who was fired
5 different coaches in 8 seasons

He did a good job getting some of our core but I think that's where the line in the sand is drawn.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Have a look at Toronto... you're a fool if you think we need Brian Burke.

Toronto's scouting staff handed Burke a grand total of 3 NHLers (Schenn, Hayes, Kadri) during the time he was the GM of the Leafs.

In the same time frame (2008-2011 drafts) the Sens scouting staff gave Murray 15 NHLers (Karl, Wier, Smith, Boro, Cowen, Silf, Lehner, Wideman, Hoff, Rundblad, Stone, Zib, Puempel, Prince, JGP).

Imagine what Burke could have done if he was given x3 as many young players to plug into the roster/trade in packages for better players. Probably a hell of a lot more than Murray did.

 

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

Look at the notable trades Burke made as GM of the Leafs:

Stajan, Hagman, White for Phaneuf, Aulie
Two 1sts, 2nd for Kessel
Stalberg, Paradis, Didomenico for Versteeg, Sweatt
Beauchemin for Gardiner, Lupul
Versteeg for 1st, 3rd
Colborne, 1st, 2nd for Kaberle
Almost nothing for Franson
Schenn for Van Reimsdyk

It's incredible how often he straight up stole guys or got more-than-expected value for his players. He had no problem attracting free agents either, despite everyone knowing what a horrible place Toronto is to play in.

BM's notable trade history as a comparison:

Meszaros for Kuba, Picard, 1st
1st for Campoli, Comrie
Vermette for Leclaire, 2nd
Heatley for Michalek, Cheechoo, 2nd
Two 2nds for Cullen and Sutton
Fisher for 1st
Rundblad, 2nd for Turris
2nd for Bishop, then for Conacher a year later
Foligno for Methot
Silf, Noesen, 1st for Ryan
Spezza for Chiasson, Paul, 2nd
Lehner, Legwand for 21st OV

Some good there, a whole lot of bad though. Wonder what kind of returns Burke would have gotten for the players on that list. Have to imagine they'd be significantly better.

Different GMs have different strengths and weaknesses, compare the players they drafted and I guarantee that Murray blows Burke out of the water all while usually having a lower pick.

Also, you forgot my favourite Murray trade, Chris Kelly for a 2nd (Shane Prince)

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Toronto's scouting staff handed Burke a grand total of 3 NHLers (Schenn, Hayes, Kadri) during the time he was the GM of the Leafs.

In the same time frame (2008-2011 drafts) the Sens scouting staff gave Murray 15 NHLers (Karl, Wier, Smith, Boro, Cowen, Silf, Lehner, Wideman, Hoff, Rundblad, Stone, Zib, Puempel, Prince, JGP).

Imagine what Burke could have done if he was given x3 as many young players to plug into the roster/trade in packages for better players. Probably a hell of a lot more than Murray did.

Maybe Burke shouldn't have built such a crappy scouting staff. He's the one who made dumb comments like "Luke Schenn is our future captain" and "Morgan Reilly would have been our pick of we were picking first overall".

 

[Hale The Villain]

Different GMs have different strengths and weaknesses, compare the players they drafted and I guarantee that Murray blows Burke out of the water all while usually having a lower pick.

But again that's not really Murray making that pick. Any GM will tell you that they let the scouting staff - the guys who get paid to travel across NA and Europe watching 17 year old kids - make the picks. The GM might have an influence on who the team selects with the pick in the 1st round, but it's probably limited at that.

So why does Murray get credit for the scouting staff's efforts? The answer because he hired them can only be accepted for so long. Remove the top tier drafting and development and what can Murray be praised for? Certainly not his dismal trade record or his inability to attract quality UFAs to Ottawa, in other words - the actual responsibilities that his position entails.

 

[Othello*]

Murray built such a crappy pro scouting staff. That Ryan and Spezza trade yuck

 

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

Murray built such a crappy pro scouting staff. That Ryan and Spezza trade yuck

Bishop for Conacher...