Official Bernier/Reimer Thread 1.0 - Optimus Reim vs Mega Jon

[Jer416]

I said he can't catch a puck, not stop a puck.

LOL i'm so conflicted. Name = OptimusForever yet on #teambernier xD haha

 

[7even]

The definition as you've defined still does not support how Reimer's athleticism is greater than Bernier's. Hasek did not flop. Also the ability to flop does not make you more athletic, it just means you need work on your positioning...

Ooooh, I think we'll just disagree on that one.

Unfortunately save percentage does not collect the quality of the shot. You could have McLaren shoot or Kessel shoot. So don't get too giddy about the save percentage. And I'm pretty sure desperation saves can show calmness too.

Fortunately for the proponents of save percentage, quality shooters also tend to generate the greatest quantity of shots, so yeah, I'm quite comfortable in SV% as a reliable, useful statistic. And that's ignoring the fact that Reimer and Bernier both play behind the same defense, leaving any argument about the difference in quality of shots they face inherently useless.

 

[Jer416]

Ooooh, I think we'll just disagree on that one.

:/

Fortunately for the proponents of save percentage, quality shooters also tend to generate the greatest quantity of shots, so yeah, I'm quite comfortable in SV% as a reliable, useful statistic. And that's ignoring the fact that Reimer and Bernier both play behind the same defense, leaving any argument about the difference in quality of shots they face inherently useless.

How does playing behind the same defense leave any argument in the difference in quality of shots inherent when the quality of shots are based on the opposing team?

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

I am pretty sure they won't openly admit(because they'd have to face the heat) but I can bet anything that there are people in this thread who would rather see the Leafs lose with other goalie in the net just to prove that their favorite one is better.

 

[TMLife*]

LOL i'm so conflicted. Name = OptimusForever yet on #teambernier xD haha

Haha ya I laugh about that often. It doesn’t matter if Reimer is here or anywhere, he’s an amazing person and ill always cheer for him.

And to the other guy, I don’t think there is anyone here who would want the Leafs to lose no matter who is in net. We all love the Leafs first and foremost.

 

[IBeL34f]

How does playing behind the same defense leave any argument in the difference in quality of shots inherent when the quality of shots are based on the opposing team?

You could arguably have an entire thread over which is more important in deciding the quality of shots, the opposing offence or the Leafs defence. But I would say it's undeniable that the time when save percentage is at its most valuable as a determining stat is between two goaltenders on the same team, which I believe is the main point 7even was getting at.

 

[Jer416]

I am pretty sure they won't openly admit(because they'd have to face the heat) but I can bet anything that there are people in this thread who would rather see the Leafs lose with other goalie in the net just to prove that their favorite one is better.

Hate to say it, but part of me hopes another Ottawa game happens xD HEY COMEON! AT LEAST I ADMIT IT

 

[Atomos2]

He can make a desperation save.

Don't forget about this one!

You guys do know I can show a few youtube videos where he wasn't so successful in those moments right? (Like in the Anaheim game)

But I don't like showing goals scored against the leafs. Either way, just because you show that he can make those saves a couple times, doesn't mean he has had great success in those situations.

 

[Atomos2]

I am pretty sure they won't openly admit(because they'd have to face the heat) but I can bet anything that there are people in this thread who would rather see the Leafs lose with other goalie in the net just to prove that their favorite one is better.

Definitely not me. As long as we win I don't care who plays. I just believe we have a better chance of winning with Reimer in net. But yes, if we end up losing with Bernier, then I will be a little more active in this thread. If we end up losing with Reimer, then I will call for Bernier in net. However, the leafs losing shouldn't be on anyone's agenda.

 

[Jer416]

You guys do know I can show a few youtube videos where he wasn't so successful in those moments right? (Like in the Anaheim game)

But I don't like showing goals scored against the leafs. Either way, just because you show that he can make those saves a couple times, doesn't mean he has had great success in those situations.

Knew vids would be a problem. But at the same time, all goalies have unsuccessful moments...after all they are desperate save attempts

Anyone hear whos starting today?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think Reimer is more athletic...I am sure Bernier can be just as athletic and make those saves if needed.

Did Bernier not have that great save against Edmonton with the game on the line and even that pad save last night was very good...

Reimer sometimes overplays the situation and gets out of position. To his credit, he's probably one of the best goalie at fighting through it and making sure the puck doesn't go in. Reimer has improved his rebounds, his glove is no problem (I didn't think there was a problem to begin with). He's as good as Bernier but sometimes just doesn't pass the eye test.

Bernier on the other hand is rarely caught out of position. He knows where the puck will be and where it could go.

If given a choice between Reimer and Bernier, I would prefer Bernier but they are both likely to put up the same type of numbers over their careers.

Glove hand ---> Bernier.
Ability to freeze the puck ---> Bernier
Play the puck ---> Bernier
Saves down low, pad area ---> Reimer
Quickness (one post to the other, wraparounds) ---> Equal.
Rebound control --> Bernier
Deflections --> Bernier. He seems to stop goals that have no business being saved on deflections...it's uncanny.

6 categories to Bernier and one even.

Really interesting phenomenon this. So many people here say Bernier is better than Reimer, some say it's too early to tell or that's it's roughly even. I have yet to see one single person say that Reimer is better.

Based on their performances to date, they are as equal as two goalies can get. Yet based on style, so many are sure that Bernier is better.

If Bernier is better at so many things, then it stands to reason that Reimer is also better at some things, otherwise how is able to stop pucks as well as Bernier? The above comment is a perfect example. Bernier is better at this, that and the other thing. So how come in the end he is not stopping pucks better than Reimer? Ther is obviously a flaw in there somewhere.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[Jer416]

Question: how many people here support Reimer due to the fact he's home-grown and has a great personality?

 

[Joey Hoser]

Question: how many people here support Reimer due to the fact he's home-grown and has a great personality?

A couple reasons of many. How could you not support a guy for those things?

 

[I Am The Stig]

Question: how many people here support Reimer due to the fact he's home-grown and has a great personality?

Of course you'd want to root for a guy like that, on top of the fact that he's been an underdog all of his career and has been given an unlikely opportunity when he first got called up and completely ran with it since then...and on top of that he's performed great. I don't see how you can't root for him in that regard. Like his actual play of goaltending isn't even an issue.

 

[Pi]

6 categories to Bernier and one even.

Really interesting phenomenon this. So many people here say Bernier is better than Reimer, some say it's too early to tell or that's it's roughly even. I have yet to see one single person say that Reimer is better.

Based on their performances to date, they are as equal as two goalies can get. Yet based on style, so many are sure that Bernier is better.

If Bernier is better at so many things, then it stands to reason that Reimer is also better at some things, otherwise how is able to stop pucks as well as Bernier? The above comment is a perfect example. Bernier is better at this, that and the other thing. So how come in the end he is not stopping pucks better than Reimer? Ther is obviously a flaw in there somewhere.

Fascinating stuff.

Bernier has played almost 400 more minutes than Reimer, that's almost 7 more games and his SV is only 0.003 or just 0.3% lower than Reimer.

400 minutes is a lot. Bernier's numbers are more impressive.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Question: how many people here support Reimer due to the fact he's home-grown and has a great personality?

I don't care really that he's hom-grown, but I do love his personality and unless he turns into a d-bag at some point will root for him wherever he plays.

That said, if Bernier turns out to be the better goalie, I would rather keep him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bernier has played almost 400 more minutes than Reimer, that's almost 7 more games and his SV is only 0.003 or just 0.3% lower than Reimer.

400 minutes is a lot. Bernier's numbers are more impressive.

Well if you want to go by sample size:

This season's numbers are too small for both to draw any conclusions.

When comparing not just the beginning of this season but their entire careers (which seems to make more sense would it not?), Reimer's body of work is much bigger so if you want to use that measure, Reimer is more impressive.

Would only add that it's certainly not Reimer's fault that has hasn't gotten as many starts Bernier has. When Reimer has had the chance this season he has played amazing!

 

[WilliamNylander]

Bernier gets the nod again tonight.

Starting to see who Carlyle thinks is better, and he's making a great choice IMO.

 

[Hounsy]

Question: how many people here support Reimer due to the fact he's home-grown and has a great personality?

I like Reimer because he seems to me to be a guy that stays in conversations like this and the position he plays through what appears to me to be a lot of sheer will. Funny I read that post about all the things Bernier does better and mostly do not disagree yet the results and "eye test" tell me he gets the job done just as well.

I'm good to ride out the platoon till the next season or when/if one of them drops off. Reimer is still a UFA this off season so is controllable and seems both guys do not need to play most games to remain sharp with the results they had so far.

 

[cheeeko]

Interesting that Bernier is going again. 4th start in 5 games. Wonder if something is up that they're kinda breaking the rotation or if Carlyle simply has more confidence in JB...seems we have more tenacious D when Bernier starts. Ah well, up to the staff to make the pick of their destiny.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I like Reimer because he seems to me to be a guy that stays in conversations like this and the position he plays through what appears to me to be a lot of sheer will. Funny I read that post about all the things Bernier does better and mostly do not disagree yet the results and "eye test" tell me he gets the job done just as well.

I'm good to ride out the platoon till the next season or when/if one of them drops off. Reimer is still a UFA this off season so is controllable and seems both guys do not need to play most games to remain sharp with the results they had so far.

Yeah exactly! For all the reasons people give why Bernier is better, the results don't show it. They are both amazing.

To whoever it was that asked why people think that Carlyle/Nonis have already decided that Bernier is their man, if indeed Bernier gets the start tonight, that's part of the answer. There have been several occasions where Reimer has played great, won the game, and then Bernier gets the next start. And the next one after that. And here we go again. Hey I hope I'm wrong, I hope they have an open mind, I hope Reimer ends up getting as many starts as Bernier if he plays just as well but it's hard not to think that maybe, just maybe the decision has already been made and if it has, that's not smart IMO.

 

[Peasy]

Bernier gets the nod again tonight.

Starting to see who Carlyle thinks is better, and he's making a great choice IMO.

Its been pretty clear since day one.

 

[I Am The Stig]

I like Reimer because he seems to me to be a guy that stays in conversations like this and the position he plays through what appears to me to be a lot of sheer will. Funny I read that post about all the things Bernier does better and mostly do not disagree yet the results and "eye test" tell me he gets the job done just as well.

I'm good to ride out the platoon till the next season or when/if one of them drops off. Reimer is still a UFA this off season so is controllable and seems both guys do not need to play most games to remain sharp with the results they had so far.

He's going to be an RFA.

Interesting that Bernier is going again. 4th start in 5 games. Wonder if something is up that they're kinda breaking the rotation or if Carlyle simply has more confidence in JB...seems we have more tenacious D when Bernier starts. Ah well, up to the staff to make the pick of their destiny.

Carlyle is going to put Reimer in against Washington after a week off...protecting Bernier . Cherry might be on to something.

 

[Duke Silver]

Reasoning for Bernier going against Preds: 8-1-0 in his lifetime vs. Nashville.

 

[Hounsy]

He's going to be an RFA.

Sorry typed that wrong that is what I meant to say.

Bernier does seem to get the bulk of the lower half teams and then they split the top. Still early could just be coincidence or a coach trying to get a better look at the guy he has seen less.