Official 2023 Coyotes OFF Season Discussion

[XX]

Wow. A 7th round pick from 2021 dominating the Coyotes 2023 off-season discussion.

I thought most were surprised when Josh Doan went pro...not sure why Lipkin staying another year is surprising and/or worrisome.

The difference between Doan and Lipkin is a lot closer than their draft pedigree would suggest if it even exists. BA bought low on Lipkin and was correct.

 

[zerekstar]

Our goalie situation is interesting. I think Veggie has the most trade value so I think he is the guy we should peddle if we are going to. I think Ingram is great for a starter for the time being and may be for the long haul.
His OCD actually make me think he may have the highest ceiling. I know that sounds crazy but I am married to a wife with OCD and she is a perfectionist and while very humble, she is never satisfied with less then her best and is always trying to improve. She is obsessed with it. Constantly checking stuff to see if she could do better. I don't know how to explain it but I think Ingram will get better and better because of it.
And Prosvetov is still below the age where most goalies really find their game so I expect he may get better. The next few seasons don't really matter so we do not have to be in a great hurry to figure it out.

 

[Edenjung]

The Thing with ocd is that it may lead to ocpd. And thats Not good.
Also Like everything it depends on the individual and their mainfestation.
Some might be highly functioning. Others Not and suffer in the Long Term.
Overall it is a coping mechanism for anxiety. While functioning and quality of Life might Not be impaired so much for some, for Others it can be worse.

Also the underlying anxiety (mostly fear of losing Control) can get worse If its Not treated. And while i would have to look Up the specifics for ocd, ocpd is much worse and might be mistaken for ocd at First glance.

 

[Schemp]

Our goalie situation is interesting. I think Veggie has the most trade value so I think he is the guy we should peddle if we are going to. I think Ingram is great for a starter for the time being and may be for the long haul.
His OCD actually make me think he may have the highest ceiling. I know that sounds crazy but I am married to a wife with OCD and she is a perfectionist and while very humble, she is never satisfied with less then her best and is always trying to improve. She is obsessed with it. Constantly checking stuff to see if she could do better. I don't know how to explain it but I think Ingram will get better and better because of it.
And Prosvetov is still below the age where most goalies really find their game so I expect he may get better. The next few seasons don't really matter so we do not have to be in a great hurry to figure it out.

The problem with trading Vejmelka is that the best time to do it is at the draft where teams are thinking about getting their roster ready for next season and more teams will be willing to bid. With Ingram not signed and Prosvetov not ready, do you want to risk it?

 

[lanky]

I disagree that the best time to trade Veggie is at the draft. To me, it's very clearly at the trade deadline.

To be clear, I'd rather keep Veggie and Ingram.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

yeah, we have to keep Veggie & Ingram. Prosvetov is no where near ready

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

Anybody who claims Prosvetov has to keep him on their NHL roster, and we've all seen the results of that. Sign them both and then send Prosvetov to Tucson through waivers and see what happens.

 

[Mosby]

Yep, just keep all the same goalies.

 

[zerekstar]

I appreciate the insight. I really do not understand it that well. I'm just starting to learn about it. My wife is on medication for it. I see downsides to it obviously but it just seems to make her better at what she does otherwise. Still it is not an easy life for people who suffer from it.

The Thing with ocd is that it may lead to ocpd. And thats Not good.
Also Like everything it depends on the individual and their mainfestation.
Some might be highly functioning. Others Not and suffer in the Long Term.
Overall it is a coping mechanism for anxiety. While functioning and quality of Life might Not be impaired so much for some, for Others it can be worse.

Also the underlying anxiety (mostly fear of losing Control) can get worse If its Not treated. And while i would have to look Up the specifics for ocd, ocpd is much worse and might be mistaken for ocd at First glance.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

I say keep Ingram. I felt he was the best of the 3 overall. Trade Vej if you can get a 2nd or late 1st and give Prosvetov a full season as a backup. If he falls flat it won’t matter because we won’t be a playoff team anyway

 

[Magonus1703]

Trade Vejmelka in the Draft. Coyotes aren't making the playoffs next season so might as well tank one more season.

 

[lanky]

Coyotes aren't making the playoffs next season so might as well tank one more season.

At some point this attitude has to change.
Might as well be now, imo.

 

[Edenjung]

To be honest, we have a great Coach good Players that could thrive under him and Develop really Well. So while we should and will not Go all in and try making the Playoffs, we should Just let them Play and Look were we end.
So no tanking anymore.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

At some point this attitude has to change.

For me, I think a team gets one tank year per decade without an emotional penalty paid by the players and fans. Anything more than that, and you guarantee yourself at least a double multiple of underwhelming performances at best.

The tank needs to be simultaneously the complete stripping down of the old team and the genesis of the new one. You don't get any lower than that, and you never stop trying to maintain an upward trajectory following it.

 

[rt]

For me, I think a team gets one tank year per decade without an emotional penalty paid by the players and fans. Anything more than that, and you guarantee yourself at least a double multiple of underwhelming performances at best.

The tank needs to be simultaneously the complete stripping down of the old team and the genesis of the new one. You don't get any lower than that, and you never stop trying to maintain an upward trajectory following it.

Didn’t we just do two tank seasons? I think we got out pretty clean. Winning is so hard that even if we don’t sabotage the roster intentionally, we’ll probably still pick in the top ten next draft. I say we keep our good players and add whatever good players we can, without actually sacrificing any future assets in the process.

Basically, just let it bake.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Didn’t we just do two tank seasons? I think we got out pretty clean. Winning is so hard that even if we don’t sabotage the roster intentionally, we’ll probably still pick in the top ten next draft. I say we keep our good players and add whatever good players we can, without actually sacrificing any future assets in the process.

Basically, just let it bake.

I think that this was the year that BA took his shot at The Prize (Bedard). Only problem was that the team believed in itself and in its coaches too much to really go for the ring like Chicago and Anaheim did. I'd say the only other true tank season we've been in was the McDavid draft - I mean, a real gutting of the roster down to the nub to get the best 1OA odds. The other seasons I'd call "misery seasons," but not a real rebuild harbinger.

From this point on - regardless of where we end up drafting - we need to be improving. I agree with you - let it bake. Build on what we have. But no more teardowns, no more resets. We may have to suffer more misery in the near term but the overall goal should be a clear and significant trend toward less of that misery with each passing minute.

 

[SpaceCoyote]

I don't really think mental fortitude plays into the timeline decision especially not at a fan level. The draft and player development are the only things that should dictate the progression of the process.

“The timeline is sped up if you hit the impact player,’’ Armstrong said. “If you get two impact players, the timeline speeds up a lot. If you got to do it with a thousand different cuts, like we might have to with all our picks, maybe it takes a little longer.”

Hopefully Cooley becomes one of those impact players at an NHL level, but a lot depends on his performance next season and the draft results of this coming off season. Still too early to commit to adjusting current strategies.

 

[rt]

I think that this was the year that BA took his shot at The Prize (Bedard). Only problem was that the team believed in itself and in its coaches too much to really go for the ring like Chicago and Anaheim did. I'd say the only other true tank season we've been in was the McDavid draft - I mean, a real gutting of the roster down to the nub to get the best 1OA odds. The other seasons I'd call "misery seasons," but not a real rebuild harbinger.

From this point on - regardless of where we end up drafting - we need to be improving. I agree with you - let it bake. Build on what we have. But no more teardowns, no more resets. We may have to suffer more misery in the near term but the overall goal should be a clear and significant trend toward less of that misery with each passing minute.

They tanked HARD in the Shane Wright draft, too. Nobody expected Vejmelka and Gostisbehere to play like they did. We went into the year with Carter Hutton and some random 25 year old nobody ever heard of from the Czech league. I’d argue that roster was more intentionally sabotaged than the last one.

We’ve been unlucky/lucky enough that the rosters didn’t get toxically awful despite managements best efforts but also we haven’t won a lottery yet, so it’s tough.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I’d argue that roster was more intentionally sabotaged than the last one.

Me too

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I would keep Ingram and put Prosvetov through waivers. Pros is not ready for prime time and any team which takes him will be leaning very, very heavily on their 1G.

We are going to be a lot better than we were this year if we can fix our puck possession problems. We need an upgrade in lines 3 and 4 as well as a new first pair D. Top line upgrades are coming in the form of Guenther and Cooley.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I would keep Ingram and put Prosvetov through waivers. Pros is not ready for prime time and any team which takes him will be leaning very, very heavily on their 1G.

That's assuming they qualify Prosvetov and don't just let his rights expire. But yeah, nobody's going to claim him after the numbers he put up this year.

 

[Kaibur]

I think there's some teams that are going to be looking to make some goalie changes and get rid of some bloated contracts. BA alluded to taking on some cap in the off-season.

LA (Petersen), Edmonton (Campbell), and Toronto (Murray) are a couple expensive examples. I wouldn't mind taking on guys like this who have a chance to rebound in our low-pressure market.

Nemeth's contract goes up to $3.5M in cash this year with his cap hit at $2.5M.

I'm guessing Ingram's contract bid in arbitration for a 2 year would be something like $1.75M and $2.5M (or there abouts).

Maybe put Ingram and Nemeth together and take on one of these bloated goalie contracts, along with some assets.

 

[TheLegend]

Coming up in 30 minutes.....

 

[Jamieh]

I think there's some teams that are going to be looking to make some goalie changes and get rid of some bloated contracts. BA alluded to taking on some cap in the off-season.

LA (Petersen), Edmonton (Campbell), and Toronto (Murray) are a couple expensive examples. I wouldn't mind taking on guys like this who have a chance to rebound in our low-pressure market.

Nemeth's contract goes up to $3.5M in cash this year with his cap hit at $2.5M.

I'm guessing Ingram's contract bid in arbitration for a 2 year would be something like $1.75M and $2.5M (or there abouts).

Maybe put Ingram and Nemeth together and take on one of these bloated goalie contracts, along with some assets.

Murray really doesn't work as his cash is a lot more than his Cap hit. Probably a buyout candidate though?? I don't see the Oilers giving up on Campbell after just one year when they still have reasonable goalie costs.

 

[Grimes]

I think there's some teams that are going to be looking to make some goalie changes and get rid of some bloated contracts. BA alluded to taking on some cap in the off-season.

LA (Petersen), Edmonton (Campbell), and Toronto (Murray) are a couple expensive examples. I wouldn't mind taking on guys like this who have a chance to rebound in our low-pressure market.

Nemeth's contract goes up to $3.5M in cash this year with his cap hit at $2.5M.

I'm guessing Ingram's contract bid in arbitration for a 2 year would be something like $1.75M and $2.5M (or there abouts).

Maybe put Ingram and Nemeth together and take on one of these bloated goalie contracts, along with some assets.

Good point. We may be able to get a better return for taking on a goalie with a bad contract than we can from Ingram haha