Official 2019-20 Coyotes Roster Discussion #2

[rt]

I always wonder if Oliver is playing through another injury?

Yeah, he's playing through a medically induced coma.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Seems to me like a classic OEL season: Sh*t in the first half, will probably be great in the second.

By the time March comes we will have forgiven/forgotten everything but truth is that it is an inadequate performance for his status in the team and nowhere near the elite D he should have become by now.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Seems to me like a classic OEL season: Sh*t in the first half, will probably be great in the second.

By the time March comes we will have forgiven/forgotten everything but truth is that it is an inadequate performance for his status in the team and nowhere near the elite D he should have become by now.

The more he does this kind of thing, the less inclined I'm going to be to forgive/forget. Particularly at his price point.

 

[Heldig]

Do you mean because it's so inaccurate or because it's so accurate?

I trust your evaluation. You have shown to be knowledgeable and wise. If that is how you assess OEl's play it is terrifying for this franchise. He is the captain AND highest paid player. He has been the only name player on the team for years. He is just starting his paid like a #1 Dman contract. That he seems like he is mailing it in could set the franchise back another 5+ years.

 

[rt]

I trust your evaluation. You have shown to be knowledgeable and wise. If that is how you assess OEl's play it is terrifying for this franchise. He is the captain AND highest paid player. He has been the only name player on the team for years. He is just starting his paid like a #1 Dman contract. That he seems like he is mailing it in could set the franchise back another 5+ years.

I'm also extremely prone to overreacting and always susceptible to being hyperbolic. Fan is short for fanatic, after all. I'm even keeled in real-life, so being a Coyotes fan is a fun outlet for some basket-case behavior.

 

[Heldig]

I'm also extremely prone to overreacting and always susceptible to being hyperbolic. Fan is short for fanatic, after all. I'm even keeled in real-life, so being a Coyotes fan is a fun outlet for some basket-case behavior.

Too true. Far from a bandwagon fan (I have been cheering for the same team thru 2 leagues and 2 names/locations) I do over react to poor play and have been known to call for shake up trades / firings/ heads out of a$$es etc.

 

[rt]

The more he does this kind of thing, the less inclined I'm going to be to forgive/forget. Particularly at his price point.

He's an 8.25 million player. For half the season he plays half speed. So he's overpaid by at least 25% or just over 2 million per season.

 

[Jakey53]

I would not have traded him for the Mathews pick a few years ago, but I would now. I wonder if TML would be open to it now, they need D, and Mathews wants to be in AZ. Assuming OEL would wave his NTC, this could make sense for both teams, maybe other pieces are involved to make it work. Could be a deal this summer as well.

I also wonder if OEL has an issue with Tocc or vise versa? He is still young, seems like mental mistakes mostly, but not as sharp as he used to be? I would also do this now versus a few years ago because of the emergence of Chych, he could be a 1D in the making.

He is not himself for sure and I just hope it is not because of RT. I think he is still a stud and I just hope he is not playing like this because he wants out. You guys are all daydreaming if you think AM will be traded here in the near distant future.

 

[Jakey53]

OEL had something like 3 fewer minutes TOI than both Chych and Gogo last night. Singular sample, sure... But given how poor the team looked defensively last night, it's potentially interesting in that when things were so dire Tocchet kept going to Chych/Gogo over OEL.

Look who OEL was paired with. That was the only reason he had less TOI than the other two. Chick and Gogo are playing well, so you may as well give them minutes and give OEL a little rest.

 

[Jakey53]

Chychrun has been our best PLAYER (not just defense. Player) this year. Goligoski is a close second. Then everyone else. In my opinion, it may be best to get OEL with Hammer when he gets back. Not for Hammer's sake, but OEL could REALLY use help right now.

Our goalies have been our best players. OEL needs help for sure, as I think he is trying to do too much. Demers has been playing up to his talent, but let's be honest, he is no 1st. pairing D.

 

[Fuhrious]

Look who OEL was paired with. That was the only reason he had less TOI than the other two. Chick and Gogo are playing well, so you may as well give them minutes and give OEL a little rest.

Gogo and Chych have been getting more TOI than OEL ever since the Edmonton game. OEL led the team in TOI against EDM and LA (both recent games) and tied them in the 3-0 win over CGY, but dropped behind the other two against TML in between those contests. Last 10 games was as many as I was motivated to pull up on NaturalStatTrick.

 

[rt]

Gogo and Chych have been getting more TOI than OEL ever since the Edmonton game. OEL led the team in TOI against EDM and LA (both recent games) and tied them in the 3-0 win over CGY, but dropped behind the other two against TML in between those contests. Last 10 games was as many as I was motivated to pull up on NaturalStatTrick.

In the 21 games since November 1st:

TOI/GP
1. Goligoski: 23:52
2. Chychrun: 23:14
3. Ekman-Larsson: 23:13

EVTOI/GP
1. Goligoski: 19:50
2. Chychrun: 19:26
3. Ekman-Larsson: 18:22

In all 33 games played this season:

TOI/GP
1. Ekman-Larsson: 23:52
2. Goligoski: 23:09
3. Chychrun: 22:22

EVTOI/GP
1. Goligoski: 19:23
2. Chychrun: 18:56
3. Ekman-Larsson: 18:49

 

[Mangosteen]

Hate to say this but Goose is not shooting the puck the same since he blocked the shot with his hand. He might be injured too.

Why cant we have nice things, they all seem to break

 

[Fuhrious]

I cant remember...after which game did Tocchet call "certain players" out in his post-game presser for not pulling their weight (paraphrasing)? TML? I have to admit, part of the reason I was going back 10 or so games was to see if OEL's TOI had been trending downward since Tocchet made that comment.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

There was also a stretch where OEL was taken off the top PP unit. It was around the time he kept falling over. I think it was just before the game against the Leafs. Against CGY maybe? Chychrun's play around that time also started to really improve.

 

[SniperHF]

Seems to me like a classic OEL season: Sh*t in the first half, will probably be great in the second.

I think it's different. In the past when he'd have a trash start it was usually in a more narrow aspect of his game. Earlier in his career it would be offense, later defense. Occasionally passing Like for example almost the entire 2017 team, as much as Domingue deserves his share of the blame, the entire defense was playing "who can pass to the other team the most" and OEL was one of the worst violators.

But he'd still be shooting well. Taking command up ice. Mixing it up behind the play and after whistles.

I can't think of a single aspect of his game right now that's at the level we'd expect it to be except MAYBE outlet passing.

 

[87turbobuick]

Before the resurgence of the Coyotes late last year all we heard from Nash for years was how good OEL was. I think some people get suckered in to believing what the announce teams repeat game after game. Lately it has been Fischer and Crouse getting all the adoration.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think that with certain defensemen, there is a transition period where as they age and mature, they rely less on the offense and are able to play better defensively. I think that we have seen OEL at some of his best in terms of defensive sequences, it is just happening too inconsistently. He can go through that one sequence (against Buffalo I think it was) where he has a huge hit stapling the guy to the glass, then comes away from that blocking a shot and also chipping the puck away from a player in space. 5 games later, it is the opposite.

I do wonder if stylistically, Tocchet is pushing him defensively, and that is part of the reason for the lack of points. Also, his shooting percentage is dreadful this year - I suppose it is one of those things to be concerned about, because it comes at the expense of shooting the puck less. Maybe Tippett let him jump into the play a little more, and that also kind of opened some confidence in him at the time.

I think everyone has a right to be worried, only if we know that a player's game will drop off - did his drop off way sooner than expected?

 

[cobra427]

I think that with certain defensemen, there is a transition period where as they age and mature, they rely less on the offense and are able to play better defensively. I think that we have seen OEL at some of his best in terms of defensive sequences, it is just happening too inconsistently. He can go through that one sequence (against Buffalo I think it was) where he has a huge hit stapling the guy to the glass, then comes away from that blocking a shot and also chipping the puck away from a player in space. 5 games later, it is the opposite.

I do wonder if stylistically, Tocchet is pushing him defensively, and that is part of the reason for the lack of points. Also, his shooting percentage is dreadful this year - I suppose it is one of those things to be concerned about, because it comes at the expense of shooting the puck less. Maybe Tippett let him jump into the play a little more, and that also kind of opened some confidence in him at the time.

I think everyone has a right to be worried, only if we know that a player's game will drop off - did his drop off way sooner than expected?

OEL is still young, he is better than this, we know that. Maybe its mental for him or maybe he has a nagging injury, hope he starts playing better. Its all over the ice, not just his goal production. I wonder if he is frustrated with Tocc or if Tocc isn't putting him in or allowing him to succeed. You have to give Tocc some credit for where the team is in the standings, just keep in mind Domi/Strome and their success elsewhere. Why were they not motivated in AZ or were they not used properly, or maybe they both grew up or are now in a better situation to succeed. Its hard to say, don't want to blame Tocc really, OEL is a vet, hope he improves.

 

[Jakey53]

Before the resurgence of the Coyotes late last year all we heard from Nash for years was how good OEL was. I think some people get suckered in to believing what the announce teams repeat game after game. Lately it has been Fischer and Crouse getting all the adoration.

No, OEL was our best D last year. A player his age and talent just doesn't fall off the cliff. Something is up with him and it's frustrating not knowing. I thought he might be injured, but after what rt said about not been visible like in the past may be a bit concerning.

 

[Jakey53]

There was also a stretch where OEL was taken off the top PP unit. It was around the time he kept falling over. I think it was just before the game against the Leafs. Against CGY maybe? Chychrun's play around that time also started to really improve.

He get's taken off the PP, but RT continues to put Stepan on the PP. That makes no sense.

 

[Jakey53]

I think that with certain defensemen, there is a transition period where as they age and mature, they rely less on the offense and are able to play better defensively. I think that we have seen OEL at some of his best in terms of defensive sequences, it is just happening too inconsistently. He can go through that one sequence (against Buffalo I think it was) where he has a huge hit stapling the guy to the glass, then comes away from that blocking a shot and also chipping the puck away from a player in space. 5 games later, it is the opposite.

I do wonder if stylistically, Tocchet is pushing him defensively, and that is part of the reason for the lack of points. Also, his shooting percentage is dreadful this year - I suppose it is one of those things to be concerned about, because it comes at the expense of shooting the puck less. Maybe Tippett let him jump into the play a little more, and that also kind of opened some confidence in him at the time.

I think everyone has a right to be worried, only if we know that a player's game will drop off - did his drop off way sooner than expected?

OEL is still young for a D, has always given and taken hits. If RT wants OEL to play more D and not be creative out there and does not want OEL to jump into the play on a team in desperate need of that, then RT should be in the unemployment line. I haven't looked it up, but I would think points from our D is down from last year.

 

[Jakey53]

OEL is still young, he is better than this, we know that. Maybe its mental for him or maybe he has a nagging injury, hope he starts playing better. Its all over the ice, not just his goal production. I wonder if he is frustrated with Tocc or if Tocc isn't putting him in or allowing him to succeed. You have to give Tocc some credit for where the team is in the standings, just keep in mind Domi/Strome and their success elsewhere. Why were they not motivated in AZ or were they not used properly, or maybe they both grew up or are now in a better situation to succeed. Its hard to say, don't want to blame Tocc really, OEL is a vet, hope he improves.

I agree. You would think that Hously would want OEL to play a more free style game, to get more involved than he is. Maybe they want him to hold back because of his partner on D.

 

[Mosby]

OEL is still young, he is better than this, we know that. Maybe its mental for him or maybe he has a nagging injury, hope he starts playing better. Its all over the ice, not just his goal production. I wonder if he is frustrated with Tocc or if Tocc isn't putting him in or allowing him to succeed. You have to give Tocc some credit for where the team is in the standings, just keep in mind Domi/Strome and their success elsewhere. Why were they not motivated in AZ or were they not used properly, or maybe they both grew up or are now in a better situation to succeed. Its hard to say, don't want to blame Tocc really, OEL is a vet, hope he improves.

Domi has reverted to his Arizona career averages. Basically the same as Kessel this year, but Domi last year is proving to be a farce.

 

[BUX7PHX]

OEL is still young for a D, has always given and taken hits. If RT wants OEL to play more D and not be creative out there and does not want OEL to jump into the play on a team in desperate need of that, then RT should be in the unemployment line. I haven't looked it up, but I would think points from our D is down from last year.

Remember that during his best years, we also didn't have the forwards that we have now, for better or worse. I wonder if some of this was because the counter-attack usually consisted of a strong outlet from OEL as well. These days, it seems like we transition more in the neutral zone, as opposed to our defensive end. That could also be a theoretical behind the lack of points, but I do think that OEL has been asked to do some things differently on the defensive end, which may prevent him from being in the middle of the offense.