Official 2019-20 Coyotes Roster Discussion #2

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_Del_

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Jul 4, 2003
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Bux said:
I didn't see him playing as badly as the comments stated
That's your problem.

You are too busy trying to nitpick the problems with players that you didnt throw your weight behind, and you are missing a good thing in the process.
Or he was playing like ass... he was the worst player on the ice.
I also complimented his game a few games back and said he actually played defense and seemed to notice he is successful when he goes to the middle of the ice.
When he stops playing defense, stops being "sticky", and starts loafing on the perimeter, I'll criticize him again. That's how it works.
I love Keller, but he played like ass almost the entire year last year, too, and I was hard on him. This year he is back battling through checks and hard after the puck. Night and day difference. Good for him. If he stops and looks like last year again, I'll be back to criticizing him.

Where did I complain about the team? The first few games were like Tocchet's start. They looked good, but it wasn't getting results. They had lots of chances, limited chances against, but still lost games. I take that all day everyday over a team that generally looks like crap and is heavily outplayed, but manages to occasionally steal a win or salvage a loser point.

The veterans actually look (mostly) like they care and are engaged. That's a pleasant change of pace for an October.

I've been pretty happy this season. Harping on players who are supposed to be core pieces, but are playing poorly, is pretty common.

We're still too light and stop and watch the game happen too often, but have made a lot of progress in a couple of years.
 
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BUX7PHX

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That's your problem.


Or he was playing like ass... he was the worst player on the ice.
I also complimented his game a few games back and said he actually played defense and seemed to notice he is successful when he goes to the middle of the ice.
When he stops playing defense, stops being "sticky", and starts loafing on the perimeter, I'll criticize him again. That's how it works.
I love Keller, but he played like ass almost the entire year last year, too, and I was hard on him. This year he is back battling through checks and hard after the puck. Night and day difference. Good for him. If he stops and looks like last year again, I'll be back to criticizing him.

Where did I complain about the team? The first few games were like Tocchet's start. They looked good, but it wasn't getting results. They had lots of chances, limited chances against, but still lost games. I take that all day everyday over a team that generally looks like crap and is heavily outplayed, but manages to occasionally steal a win or salvage a loser point.

The veterans actually look (mostly) like they care and are engaged. That's a pleasant change of pace for an October.

I've been pretty happy this season. Harping on players who are supposed to be core pieces, but are playing poorly, is pretty common.

We're still too light and stop and watch the game happen too often, but never made a lot of progress in a couple of years.

Our core pieces are doing a lot more than you care to realize.

Fischer gets a lot of flak here. But even in these games, people will have a major issue with something and immediately that turns into his entire game is awful.

Same situation. You say Schmaltz looked like ass in his first three games. There were two shifts that I can think of that I want back overall. But, even then, there are a lot of smaller details that are doing in terms of ice positioning that players are in lockstep with. Even the "theoretical bad plays" were being done with player and team functioning much better than even our best times last year.

It may not seem like it, but pop in the 1st game again. I guarantee that a lot of things that Schmaltz has done over the past 3 games were done in the first 3. But when you lose games by 1 goal in which the goalies played mind-bendingly well, someone has to be the scapegoat, I guess.
 

_Del_

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Jul 4, 2003
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Del said:
The veterans actually look (mostly) like they care and are engaged. That's a pleasant change of pace for an October.
Buxbot said:
Our core pieces are doing a lot more than you care to realize.
I don't have time to argue with a bot. Maybe after the next update.
 

BUX7PHX

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I don't have time to argue with a bot. Maybe after the next update.

The veterans dont care any more or less than last season. It is almost like you are suggesting that we dumped all of the veterans at the place where the Care Bears live a week prior to the season.

News flash: most players care throughout the entire season. We started 0-2. We did so the year before that, and the year before that. I think that the level of caring to stop from continuing that trend was the same each year. We now have the comfort in the system and talent in the lineup to battle back from that.

The funny thing is that some of the players that you are referring to might not be the same ones that I am. You stated "veterans." I stated "core." Just because you have many years doesn't mean you are a core piece.

I consider Keller to be a core piece but not a vet. I consider Dvorak to be both. He has done a lot more than you think. Crouse has been very strong on the PK. He is a core piece, but not a vet.

See the difference?

The core players that I don't think you are paying as much attention to include Chychrun, Dvorak, Crouse, Schmaltz, and Demers. Demers is probably the only one that isnt a handpick by Chayka. Quite a few kids are leading the way, but we are just getting solid performances all around.
 

Bonsai Tree

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Feb 2, 2014
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I am going to wait until the 20 game mark before I look for things to complain about. We are looking good overall after having faced some very tough teams (excluding Ottawa). Our goalie tandem is unreal. Our power play is good. Our pk is good. Our forwards are scoring. AFAIK, focusing on Keller,or Hayton can wait.
 
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cobra427

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The veterans dont care any more or less than last season. It is almost like you are suggesting that we dumped all of the veterans at the place where the Care Bears live a week prior to the season.

News flash: most players care throughout the entire season. We started 0-2. We did so the year before that, and the year before that. I think that the level of caring to stop from continuing that trend was the same each year. We now have the comfort in the system and talent in the lineup to battle back from that.

The funny thing is that some of the players that you are referring to might not be the same ones that I am. You stated "veterans." I stated "core." Just because you have many years doesn't mean you are a core piece.

I consider Keller to be a core piece but not a vet. I consider Dvorak to be both. He has done a lot more than you think. Crouse has been very strong on the PK. He is a core piece, but not a vet.

See the difference?

The core players that I don't think you are paying as much attention to include Chychrun, Dvorak, Crouse, Schmaltz, and Demers. Demers is probably the only one that isnt a handpick by Chayka. Quite a few kids are leading the way, but we are just getting solid performances all around.
Great post, well articulated synopsis, not just looking at a stat sheet.
 

BUX7PHX

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Great post, well articulated synopsis, not just looking at a stat sheet.

It should have been fairly clear in the first two games (even though we lost) that we were doing far more good than bad, in relation to individual and team play. I usually don't like to look at GA, GF, PP, or PK% until about games 6-10, when we have enough opportunities in a sample size.

All that I know is that we didn't need Corsi, Fenwick, or any of the other analytics tracking tools to see that we looked like the much sharper and crisper team. The first two games, the analytics measured that, but the analytic that counts is 1 goal vs 2. People were way too quick to take the approach that we were headed toward another doomed season of bad offense. I saw a team getting great shots off that really tested the goalies, regardless. When that is happening often enough, the goals will come. We saw glimpses of that last year (right around the time in mid-late November when things were starting to gel, and the injuries hit hard and fast). We look even better than that so far this year.

If we make the right moves at the deadline or prior to, I think we could be a dark horse Cup contender.
 
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Grimes

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I really like the concept of each line right now but would like to move some guys around and find a way to slot in Hayton. Hino has not been doing it for me lately and think he is more deserving fora sit than Fischer. It sounded like Fischer was making some great plays and putting in a lot of effort last night despite a couple of gaffes.

Keller-Dvo-Schmaltz
Garland-Stepan-Kessel
Crouse-Soda-Fischer
Grabs-Richie-Hayton

Let's see if we can spark that Schmeller magic again, and Dvo has proven that he is responsible enough to pick up their defensive lapses. I also feel like both Schmaltz and Keller are improved defensively.

Garland the puck hound with Kessel seems like an instant match. Stepan hasn't been producing goals but him and Kessel are clicking, the puck luck just hasn't been there.

Really like the idea of this third line. If Fischer starts slumping sit him, move Hayton up and try again. Soda and Crouse are matchup hell for other teams though.

Nothing really needs to be said about the 4th line. I would prefer Hayton over Richie in ever scenario besides the PK. Without Hammer in the lineup Richie needs to stay.

I feel as far as wingers go, Fischer/Hino are interchangeable for the 3rd and 4th lines depending on current performance. Hayton/Garland could begin switching between the 3rd and 2nd lines.

Of course we are winning now so maybe don't touch it yet. Just would like Hayton to get more reps.
 
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Llewzaher

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I still think we need some more finish ... we sure generating alot of chances with our suffocating play..

We just need to be able to finish..

Dvorak needs to start shooting the puck alot more..

Schmaltz as well

Vinny and Garland need to take the puck to the net because they both have great hands ... no more skating to the outside all of the time
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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I really like the concept of each line right now but would like to move some guys around and find a way to slot in Hayton. Hino has not been doing it for me lately and think he is more deserving fora sit than Fischer. It sounded like Fischer was making some great plays and putting in a lot of effort last night despite a couple of gaffes.

Keller-Dvo-Schmaltz
Garland-Stepan-Kessel
Crouse-Soda-Fischer
Grabs-Richie-Hayton

Let's see if we can spark that Schmeller magic again, and Dvo has proven that he is responsible enough to pick up their defensive lapses. I also feel like both Schmaltz and Keller are improved defensively.

Garland the puck hound with Kessel seems like an instant match. Stepan hasn't been producing goals but him and Kessel are clicking, the puck luck just hasn't been there.

Really like the idea of this third line. If Fischer starts slumping sit him, move Hayton up and try again. Soda and Crouse are matchup hell for other teams though.

Nothing really needs to be said about the 4th line. I would prefer Hayton over Richie in ever scenario besides the PK. Without Hammer in the lineup Richie needs to stay.

I feel as far as wingers go, Fischer/Hino are interchangeable for the 3rd and 4th lines depending on current performance. Hayton/Garland could begin switching between the 3rd and 2nd lines.

Of course we are winning now so maybe don't touch it yet. Just would like Hayton to get more reps.
We have won 4 straight, our team has played better then our record. Chemistry is a big part of why it is all working. I wouldn't mess with the lines now or worry about playing Hayton. If somebody isn't playing a complete game or gets injured, Hayton will get some time, no need to force it or try it now because he was a high pick. No need to screw up what we have going.
 
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BUX7PHX

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Don't fall for the Bux-bait

I don't think I am baiting anyone. I truly believe that from this moment, we are a playoff-caliber team, at the very least. If we were to somehow add another piece on wing or even C (Richardson is still a fine player, but we can get better production), we could have our best team ever. Like, even better than the 107 point season, even if we don't get to that point total, which was heavily reliant on SO wins.

Yes, it is bold, but I haven't seen anything from this team that makes me think that they will fall apart. The main reason is because of how well our D is doing. I was worried about a drop-off in goal, but we actually have been as good, if not better than last year. Add to that the offense. Kessel has been a revelation - he scores, he passes well. It has really opened the game up for us. Our lines are rolling 4 deep. Surprisingly, one of the more effective groupings of Richardson and Grabner have not been as good, but fortunate for us, we haven't needed them to keep us in games with PK magic.

Although early, we currently have the 6th best point % in the league and the 3rd greatest differential in GF and GA at +1.12. Oh, and we have done this without two of our top 6 D for a total of 7 man-games now, correct?

Let's play the opposite game: give me the reasons why we should not be considered playoff caliber and/or potential Cup contending (I think we still need to add a piece to be in that upper echelon). Mainly for azcanuck, but everyone is free to respond.
 

TheLegend

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Buzzing BoH
This is a Forum 40 Public Service Announcement:

The report feature really works people........ (glaring at rt) :laugh:

What's a bigger PITA is cleaning up the mess from people biting on a post.
 

TheLegend

Megathread Gadfly
Aug 30, 2009
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Buzzing BoH
Did you get my report? It honestly looked like it didn’t go through?

All three of them..... :laugh: FWIW.... I've run into that.

Just have to give it some time for someone to catch it. I'm on here all sorts of hours but not 24/7.

The "ignore" function works pretty well too.

Yes but we're not supposed to be discussing that in open forum. Use the conversation tab and go PM with it. ;)
 
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