LSCII
Cup driven
Ha!! I actually was far more upset about the Jets game loss. This one is out of the conference, and in terms of loses, it's about as meaningless as they come.
Official 2013 Patriots/NFL Thread-Part VI
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Ha!! I actually was far more upset about the Jets game loss. This one is out of the conference, and in terms of loses, it's about as meaningless as they come.
GloryDaze4877
Barely Irrelevant
They did get beat, but the only reason that pass was "uncatchable" was because of the foul being committed. It wasn't like Brady threw it into the ground or air-mailed it 30 yards past the receiver, it was relatively close, and the flag should have been thrown. You can play the "Team X got this call, so this evens out" game all day long if you want, and it goes both ways (Tolbert's blatant hold on Newton's 25 yard scramble that results in a 1st down and eventual TD comes to mind).
However, the fact of the matter is that with the game on the line, the refs didn't have the stones to make the right call. A call that they would have made the other 59 minutes and 30 seconds of the game
I haven't read everything here but my opinion is that if you don't want this kind of ending, don't put yourself in the position. Make the plays you need to make in the previous 59 minutes.
Sea Bass Neely
Registered User
Lol
Can you take a guess WHY -- just as soon as he Blakeman briefly announced that crowd-pleasing, pro-home team call -- the entire officiating crew dashed off the field like they were being chased by a pack of wolves???
Think... think... think....
Because they knew damn well it was defensive PI. That's why the flag was thrown by the official that was literally a couple yards from the play.
Of course Gronkowski had no chance of making the play... not only was Kuechly face-shielding him the second he approached the end-zone (shielding his view of the ball), he also manhandled Gronk -- pushing him from the spot the ball was picked off at, all the way toward the back of the end-zone -- in a BLATANTLY illegal manner.
The fact that the ball got intercepted, or was indeed a bit under-thrown doesn't matter. Gronkowski was not afforded even a CHANCE at making a play on the ball. Kuechly literally was blocking him like an O-lineman does... so of course Gronk had no chance to compete for the slightly-underthrown ball.
Why?? Because it was a blatant foul and he was physically prevented from getting to the spot he wanted. Kuechly engaged him right around the spot the ball ended up... so saying that ball was uncatchable because of the ensuing interception is the very definition of circular reasoning.
After all, if not for the PI infraction, the interception probably doesn't happen and Gronk -- a freak athlete with great hands -- has at least a 50% chance of making the play there.
Too bad we will never know, because the refs were too chicken-shyt to make the right call in the wrong stadium. That is why they ran off so quickly... can you say GUILTY CONSCIOUS???
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BergyDGD
Rock Chalk Jayhawk
Just because they didn't execute in the first 59 minutes does not mean they do not deserve a fair shake in the last minute and they did not get a fair shake on that last play. The Patriots execution failure does not excuse the refs incompetence. You can say well it shouldn't have come down to this but it did and the refs didn't have the stones to make the right call. At the end of the day the Pats had the ball in a position to win and refs took that opportunity away.
Sea Bass Neely
Registered User
I generally feel the same way. That if you allow the game to be decided by officials, you deserve to lose... but that was just such a bad call. Most of the MNF analysts and ESPN pundits agree that there was absolutely a game-deciding penalty not called.
And the way the refs gave minimal explanation and ran off the field ASAP with their tails between their legs, to me speaks VOLUMES. They knew they made the crowd-pleasing decision... but that is *not* their job.
NFL refs make good money, they are supposed to be OBJECTIVE and not care what the crowds think/want.
But speaking to your point. IMO the game was lost -- and i had a feeling at the time -- when Brady went for the TD pass on 3rd-and-1 in the red-zone, on a drive that had seen both Ridley and LaGarrette Blount pick up huge chunks of yards down the middle.
In fact, the play right before the 3rd-and-1 was a Blount power-run up the middle for NINE YARDS. Why they wouldn't give the ball back to him while he was feeling it, knowing they only needed a single yard to get the 1st-and-goal (or close to 1st/goal)... is totally beyond me. I was pissed at the time, but now i am even more pissed given the BS result.
Horrible play call-- it ultimately cost the Pats the game, referees aside. The way Blount/Ridley were running in the second half... you HAVE TO trust them to pick up one yard for a first down.
Instead, Brady has no one in the end-zone and we end up settling for a FG. Carolina gets the ball down three with over six-minutes to milk the clock and either tie or win it.
Blown call (or non-call, i should say) aside, that 3rd-and-1 is where the Patriots set themselves up for a loss.
Brady DID do an amazing job marching his offense down the field with under a minute remaining in regulation, though.
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While I agree it was a terrible call, the fact that they ran off the field means nothing. They do that after EVERY game, whether the home team wins or loses. They don't stand out at the 50 yard line and shake hands at the end of the game.
Think about the last time Belichick felt slighted by the refs at the end of the game and wanted an explanation. Same thing. Refs running for the exit. That's what they do. No reason for them to stick around.
Sea Bass Neely
Registered User
Firstly, no they don't always rush off the field in such a hurry.
Sure i understand that they don't float around shaking hands and doing interviews with [insert middle-aged woman] on the ground... but they can often be seen casually mingling with coaches and/or players after regulation time expires and there is a huge crowd on the field, before leaving. It's not as if the very instant a non-OT regulation ends they just disappear ASAP.
After picking up the flag, that ref crew got off the field awfully quick. At least quicker than normal.
In any case, you're missing the meat of my point. If a long-tenured, well-respected NFL referee like Ed Hochuli were on the field in that situation -- even IF he made what would be regarded as the wrong call -- he would give his usual detailed explanation as to why the refereeing crew made the call they made.
Right or wrong, people deserve a clear explanation... not just a statement that makes the home-crowd happy. There should be some clarity. Not just a quick "verbal alibi" followed by a scramble off the field.
A lot of Patriots players/staff wanted better explanations as to how the one ref with BY FAR the best view of the play threw his flag, only to pick it up... and the refs didn't want to elaborate because they knew the non-call was total BS.
Bottom line, if that same blatant penalty (in the same situation) happened in New England... the correct call gets made 100 times out of 100. It was a homer call, and the refs hurried off the field even faster than usual FOR A REASON.
Even the ESPN guys knew it was BS. The Pats got robbed, period.
Edit--
PS: BTW, the incident you are referring to when Belichick got some heat for pressing the referees for a better (or ANY) explanation after the game ended really only serves to underline my point. When a questionable game-changing call is made that -- for all practical purposes -- decides the result of the game... the refs "run for the hills" much faster than they might otherwise.
It's human nature... i get it. There is a lot of pressure on NFL refs, and a lot of people watching. Especially in prime-time. A lot of money on the line, a lot of passion... when they aren't sure how to proceed and just wing it with a shoddy call, they want to get off the field as quickly as possible and then leave it to some NFL PR-guy or officiating expert do the explaining for them. I understand the instinct to just get out of dodge... but that does not make the call any less horrible and outright WRONG.
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Again, no argument here.
No. It's just that the cameras only make a point of showing the refs after such plays, so it seems like they're running unusually, when in fact it's quite routine.
GloryDaze4877
Barely Irrelevant
I guess, but you could also say that the Pats played well enough on the road to give themselves a chance to win on the last play (as opposed to be down say by 10), and that while that's not ideal, they were still denied a chance for that win by the refs making the wrong call.
Sea Bass Neely
Registered User
We will have to agree to disagree on that.
I watch just about every Pats game and usually spend my Sundays watching football... i don't normally see referees make a game-deciding call and promptly exit the stadium without giving any real explanation as to how they arrived at that game-deciding call.
An explanation is owed not just to the home crowd, it is owed to all the fans and players who are being screwed by the call (or non-call). What the refs offered Monday was not an explanation, it was a short bail-out excuse to avoid allowing the visiting team the chance to win the game... if we are going by the NFL rulebook.
All the "how fast do NFL referees typically get off the field" discussion notwithstanding... the bottom line is the lack of clarification on the part of the officials, and especially the one who saw the BLATANT foul with his own eyes as he stood a few yards away and threw the flag.
For such a critical point in the game-- for a referee to just pick up their flag and say "no foul on the play; the pass was intercepted/uncatchable", to me that is inexcusable and unprofessional. WHY was it uncatchable??
They don't want to elaborate on THAT because then it would get into "well, it was uncatchable because Gronkowski was not only face-shielded but physically manhandled the second he crossed the goal line". This is why we saw such a quick explanation and quick exit from the refs (at least a bit quicker than usual, but that's not the main point here).
They need to make the right call, regardless of how many boos they will hear. That is their job, boos are not supposed to bother referees.
I don't care to argue how fast referees run off the field, and i know you agree with me that it was a bad call on the field; one that unfortunately decided the game.
All i am saying is... if they are going to pick up that flag, they'd better have a good explanation as to why they pretended "that never happened (flag)".
The whole thing was a disgrace to the NFL, the officiating of which i usually hold in high regard relative to other sports... and there is no question that after the brief "explanation" they ran for the hills.
Of course they KNEW it was going to be media fodder for the entire week, they made a poor decision to go with an equally poor explanation for that weak decision.
Don't waste your time Sea Bass. Other dude is a Denver fan who likes to troll here and get on peoples nerves. Hence why I blocked him and can only see when people quote his nonsense.
I agreed with his main points of bad call and that there should've been an explanation, but I'n the troll? ok
just because I'm not a pats fan, that doesn't make me a troll.
Yes, in the perfect game you should ensure a win a soon as you can. But failing that you should play right up until the final play of the game to give yourself a chance. The Patriots did that on Monday but were denied a chance at winning the game from a bad non call. Not saying that call cost them the game because they still had to convert the final play, but it did cost them the opportunity to win the game.
Pie O My
Registered User
on the previous drive they were at the Carolina 8, 4th and 1. FG instead of going for 1st down. As TMQ would say, "game over". That's scaredy cat football and didn't deserve to win.
If you get stopped and they march down for a TD then you have to score a TD yourself. If you get the 3 and they march down and score a TD, HELLO (!), you still need a TD. What have you gained? not much. what have you lost? what you have lost cannot be found in any stat sheet, if you get my drift.
Whoever is responsible, Josh or BB, has some work to do in the coaching dept. Don't know if he actually did this or not but our HOF QB should have been vociferously pleading his case to go for it.
Uh, you gained the lead, which is sorta what you need to win the game. Even TMQ says take the FG if it gives you the lead.
The 3rd and 1 is where they need help. Awful playcall and then Brady gave up when his first option wasn't open.
Pie O My
Registered User
how'd that work out for us?
One of the only 3 and outs for the Panthers was when they were backed up behind their 10 yard line. The ball on that drive was at the 8.
In this day and age, how does someone play an nfl game one week after suffering a concussion?
Ya, I know welker passed a concussion test but really? We're still doing this?
Anyway, I think we need dennard and talib in order to beat the broncos so unfortunately I don't see it happening tonight. If those guys are healthy for the playoffs, I like our chances
Ya, I know welker passed a concussion test but really? We're still doing this?
Anyway, I think we need dennard and talib in order to beat the broncos so unfortunately I don't see it happening tonight. If those guys are healthy for the playoffs, I like our chances
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
They put him back in after the concussion, and said they thought he had a neck injury. When I was watching the game I said on that play, "Looks like he was out cold on the way down."
Yet they thought it was a neck injury.
............
Honestly just imagine if that happened on Belichick's watch? Think it would have been discussed all week? Just a little?
I hope Welker is okay and isn't rushing back just because of the opponent.
As for the game, good break with the bad weather. Brady has overwhelmingly been the better quarterback in the cold, and Manning certainly has the vastly superior touch these days, but the wind isn't going to help that. I'll take the arm strength in these conditions.
Huuuuuuge game for AFC playoff seeding too. The Pats win this game and they might put Denver on the road for the entire playoffs in spite of their record.
Felger never wants this to end, three times 98.5 came on while scanning my presets all times him *****ing and moaning about Welker, not once have I heard droped the 3-5 biggest catches of his life.
I will take Amendolla any day over that bum and I hope he is boo'd.
Really? I like Amendolla a bunch, but hes just not as versatile. What does he bring for you that Welker doesnt? The jersey?
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