Speculation: Offer Sheets - What would you like to see Bergevin do?

[le_sean]

With RD being a big question mark going forward and Petry to become UFA in a year, I'd throw an offersheet at Pulock. I'd give him the top of the 1st + 3rd threshold ($6.3m for 5 years). This also allows the Habs to trade Petry and get back a 1st and more.

 

[Benstheman]

Your paradigm is based on an incomplete analysis, which renders it null. Almost seems like you're trying to build an excuse to keep this ridiculous set-up we have.

Anyway, here are the reasons;

1- As of this moment, there is only 45.25 mil left to pay to price over 6 years, which makes it around 7.5 mil per year left to pay (rounded out), which makes a 50% salary retention completely ridiculous, even more ridiculous as time goes on. Next year at the same date, 33 mil left to pay over 5 years, 6.5 mil per rounded out.

2- having a much lower actual salary than cap hit, Price could be very attractive to teams on a budget, but who also want to make a push.

3- your entire argument rests upon the fallacy that all teams look for a lower cap hit vs looking for lower actual salary, when it's no more than half the league, if not fewer.

2-Like who exactly?? Just go take a look at capfriendly. You will see not much teams fit that description, if any.

3-Disagree

 

[Deebs]

With RD being a big question mark going forward and Petry to become UFA in a year, I'd throw an offersheet at Pulock. I'd give him the top of the 1st + 3rd threshold ($6.3m for 5 years). This also allows the Habs to trade Petry and get back a 1st and more.

Pulock would be a nice snag.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

2-Like who exactly?? Just go take a look at capfriendly. You will see not much teams fit that description, if any.

3-Disagree

Right, because cap friendly will tell which ones are on a budget and which aren't... Will tell you which team get allocations, which team will look at lower salaries vs cap hit

It's a simple reality of the league. Some are much closer to the cap floor for a reason.

And to add insult to injury to your little pet theory, the economic downturn the league will have to deal with in the next few years will inevitably create more outcomes where teams will be looking to reduce actual salary vs their responsability to at least reach the cap floor.

 

[OB5]

The main reason I don't want Bergevin to make any more offer-sheets is because I really don't enjoy the Habs getting dunked on by the entire hockey community. Even when going bold and against the grain he was too conservative to make the big splash. Do I think the Habs are better off moving their picks out for a star? Yes, they haven't been develop their picks so may as well move them. Do I think Bergevin is the guy to do it? No.

 

[Benstheman]

Right, because cap friendly will tell which ones are on a budget and which aren't... Will tell you which team get allocations, which team will look at lower salaries vs cap hit

It's a simple reality of the league. Some are much closer to the cap floor for a reason.

And to add insult to injury to your little pet theory, the economic downturn the league will have to deal with in the next few years will inevitably create more outcomes where teams will be looking to reduce actual salary vs their responsability to at least reach the cap floor.

You miss the point completely. Look at capfriendly and tell me NOW, what teams are near the capfloor. And tell me how your point will become more relevant with the cap staying flat for the next 2 years at least, while players salaries will still rise.

 

[Steve Shutt]

Sergachev would be my offer-sheet target

 

[26Mats]

Not so sure McDavid's $12.5M cap his is a bargain like Croby's $8.7M cap hit which is cap circumventing type. 5 years apart from when they were signed.

McDavid's contract likely only becomes a bargain once the cap rises above $90M in about 3+ years. McDavid's contract might be a bargain in the last 3 years of the 8 year deal. Crosby's contract was bargain for pretty much his entire contract.

If you could sign McDavid now, for what he was asking for, what's the highest you would go?

I would easily be willing to give him the maximum allowable under the CBA, easily. He signed for far less than that, and far less than his market value. Therefore, from my perspective, he's easily a bargain right now. No need to wait three years - when he'll be even more of a bargain.

Just because he's making only 12 5 and is better than everyone else, doesn't mean I wouldn't give 12.5 to another by definition lesser player - if the compensation wasn't too burdensome, such as a UFA.

 

[Tanknation]

Would be nice if some other team offer sheeted Marc Bergevin and took him away from us instead.

 

[CHfan1]

If you could sign McDavid now, for what he was asking for, what's the highest you would go?

I would easily be willing to give him the maximum allowable under the CBA, easily. He signed for far less than that, and far less than his market value. Therefore, from my perspective, he's easily a bargain right now. No need to wait three years - when he'll be even more of a bargain.

Just because he's making only 12 5 and is better than everyone else, doesn't mean I wouldn't give 12.5 to another by definition lesser player - if the compensation wasn't too burdensome, such as a UFA.

Yes a guy like McDavid is worth it. None of this years crop of RFA’s or UFA’s come even close to being worth $12.5 million.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you could sign McDavid now, for what he was asking for, what's the highest you would go?

I would easily be willing to give him the maximum allowable under the CBA, easily. He signed for far less than that, and far less than his market value. Therefore, from my perspective, he's easily a bargain right now. No need to wait three years - when he'll be even more of a bargain.

Just because he's making only 12 5 and is better than everyone else, doesn't mean I wouldn't give 12.5 to another by definition lesser player - if the compensation wasn't too burdensome, such as a UFA.

20% of total cap is the max right? McDavid is at 15% of the cap at the moment. Just cause he is not at 20%, it don't mean it's a bargain in my books. Nowhere near Crosby's bargain.

Of course you pay McDavid whatever he wants but even at 15%, it makes it difficult to fill out the roster into a contender year after year.

When does it become a bargain? Probably when the cap grows well above $90M IMO. At $90M, it's about 13.8% of the cap. Crosby was 13.5% in year one of his contract and today he is 10.7%. Cap would have to get to over $117M for McDavid to be equal to Crosby's cap hit % today.

 

[26Mats]

20% of total cap is the max right? McDavid is at 15% of the cap at the moment. Just cause he is not at 20%, it don't mean it's a bargain in my books. Nowhere near Crosby's bargain.

Of course you pay McDavid whatever he wants but even at 15%, it makes it difficult to fill out the roster into a contender year after year.

When does it become a bargain? Probably when the cap grows well above $90M IMO. At $90M, it's about 13.8% of the cap. Crosby was 13.5% in year one of his contract and today he is 10.7%. Cap would have to get to over $117M for McDavid to be equal to Crosby's cap hit % today.

Ok, but my point wasn't that Crosby and McDavid are both the exact same bargain, merely that they're both bargains. And so, people shouldn't be comparing other players' potential salaries to those two when assessing whether a particular salary for the player is reasonable/a good price to pay.

For example, if we didn't have to give up draft picks I would happily pay Barzal 12.5M AAV - even though it's the same salary as McDavid, who's a far better player. McDavid is head and shoulders above anyone else anyways. I'm not knocking Barzal.

And, I would be absolutely shocked if McDavid doesn't win a cup in his career. I would give him the max if he demanded it in negotiations. In the long run it's a good investment. Better even that giving Mahomes 50 million a year.

 

[Treb]

You miss the point completely. Look at capfriendly and tell me NOW, what teams are near the capfloor. And tell me how your point will become more relevant with the cap staying flat for the next 2 years at least, while players salaries will still rise.

Sens will be with Boedker, Hainsey, Anderson, Callahan and MacArthur all coming off the book.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ok, but my point wasn't that Crosby and McDavid are both the exact same bargain, merely that they're both bargains. And so, people shouldn't be comparing other players' potential salaries to those two when assessing whether a particular salary for the player is reasonable/a good price to pay.

For example, if we didn't have to give up draft picks I would happily pay Barzal 12.5M AAV - even though it's the same salary as McDavid, who's a far better player. McDavid is head and shoulders above anyone else anyways. I'm not knocking Barzal.

And, I would be absolutely shocked if McDavid doesn't win a cup in his career. I would give him the max if he demanded it in negotiations. In the long run it's a good investment. Better even that giving Mahomes 50 million a year.

I would not be shocked if McDavid don't win a cup. Most teams that have won cups in the salary cap era have well balanced rosters with talent and the cap hits are not crazy for their top players.

Name me one team with a top heavy roster that has won a cup? Pens are one of them. Others?

Oilers and Leafs need the cap to rise significantly in the next 3-5 years or cap hell continues for them

 

[26Mats]

I would not be shocked if McDavid don't win a cup. Most teams that have won cups in the salary cap era have well balanced rosters with talent and the cap hits are not crazy for their top players.

Name me one team with a top heavy roster that has won a cup? Pens are one of them. Others?

Oilers and Leafs need the cap to rise significantly in the next 3-5 years or cap hell continues for them

McDavid is McDavid. No comparisons to other situations apply, imo. He will need a very good supporting cast. No doubt about it. Have to have good goaltending, good D, and good forwards. But most generational players win cups. And he's an all time great at arguably the most important position in the game right now. Edmonton took a step back with all of Chiarelli's mishaps - and they were already taking several steps back in re-building just to get where they were when Chiarelli came on board! But with a competent GM, I can't see McDavid not winning a cup.

I think (not sure but think) McDavid will be up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, and Orr when he's done.

 

[Habs Halifax]

McDavid is McDavid. No comparisons to other situations apply, imo. He will need a very good supporting cast. No doubt about it. Have to have good goaltending, good D, and good forwards. But most generational players win cups. And he's an all time great at arguably the most important position in the game right now. Edmonton took a step back with all of Chiarelli's mishaps - and they were already taking several steps back in re-building just to get where they were when Chiarelli came on board! But with a competent GM, I can't see McDavid not winning a cup.

I think (not sure but think) McDavid will be up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, and Orr when he's done.

McDavid will be among one of the best all time but will he have a cup? Not sure. Depends on the Oilers ability to capitalize on finding talent in the draft and how fast the cap rises.

 

[abo9]

I would not be shocked if McDavid don't win a cup. Most teams that have won cups in the salary cap era have well balanced rosters with talent and the cap hits are not crazy for their top players.

Name me one team with a top heavy roster that has won a cup? Pens are one of them. Others?

Oilers and Leafs need the cap to rise significantly in the next 3-5 years or cap hell continues for them

While most have build a good supporting cast (thus not "top heavy" like the Pens), most stanley cup winners since 2005 have elite players, paid as such. St.Louis might be the one exception to the rule. Ovechkin had a $9.5M contract, 18% of the cap hit. Crosby was 14.5 % of cap hit. Kopitar/Doughty/Kane/Toews (I'm not bothered looking up others) were all 10-11% of the cap hit, which is similar to what Draisatl got.

There's a lot of time left in McDavid's career and things can change fast. He's got Draisatl as an elite teammate. RNH is a very good player and Yamamoto could become dangerous as well. The Oilers' decade of bad decision is still haunting them but it looks like they're slowly turning it around. It's not McDavid and Draisatl's contract hindering their cap space right now.

Now, I don't agree of giving the same money as McDavid to a guy like Barzal, but that's just me. And if we want to poach an RFA, we need to overpay enough that the other team will take the L. Eg. I thought offering 8.5 for Aho was dumb, we should have gone 10, 11M for that guy. At 8.5 he's a bargain the the Canes lol.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

And at that point, we will have to retain 50% on Price's salary to even get a return. No matter how we see it, even if he wants out, his contract will still bite us in the ass. Maybe the only possibility is Seattle expansion draft. But i'm 100% sure management are not ready to let him go yet. So imo, it doesn't really make sense to, at least, not try something to win now while Weber and Price are still good. While i don't think they are elite, they still pretty good and important pieces to our team . I say make a big move to stabilize the D and Price will gain 2-3 more years of effectiveness.

Watch the Habs get the 9th OA pick and draft Askarov.

All speculative hell will break loose.

People will say that Price will waive to go to Seattle.

Have to admit though, for Price, if he thinks Seattle could be alot like 1st year Vegas after them having the same rules and advantages as Vegas had, he may seriously think of waiving his NMC to be expansion available for Seattle.

Does Habs management go to the 2022 season with Primeau and Askarov in nets?

It would be epic though. Just the shear mind blowing on here would be entertaining!

 

[Scriptor]

Watch the Habs get the 9th OA pick and draft Askarov.

All speculative hell will break loose.

People will say that Price will waive to go to Seattle.

Have to admit though, for Price, if he thinks Seattle could be alot like 1st year Vegas after them having the same rules and advantages as Vegas had, he may seriously think of waiving his NMC to be expansion available for Seattle.

Does Habs management go to the 2022 season with Primeau and Askarov in nets?

It would be epic though. Just the shear mind blowing on here would be entertaining!

More important to consider whether seattle would even entertain the idea of picking Price at the expansion draft? Unlike Fleury, who had only two years left at a 5.75M Cap hit as a 32 and 33 yr-old G (coming off cup wins in 2016 and 2017 -- he was drafted for the 2017-18 season), Price would never have won a Cup and be arriving in Seattle with a 10.5M Cap hit for 5 remaining years, all as a 34, 35, 36, 37 and 38 yr-old G!

Objectively, acquiring Price may not be as attractive to Seattle as it was for Las Vegas to acquire Fleury as the backbone to their franchise birth.

Not even close, really.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

More important to consider whether seattle would even entertain the idea of picking Price at the expansion draft? Unlike Fleury, who had only two years left at a 5.75M Cap hit as a 32 and 33 yr-old G (coming off cup wins in 2016 and 2017 -- he was drafted for the 2017-18 season), Price would never have won a Cup and be arriving in Seattle with a 10.5M Cap hit for 5 remaining years, all as a 34, 35, 36, 37 and 38 yr-old G!

Objectively, acquiring Price may not be as attractive to Seattle as it was for Las Vegas to acquire Fleury as the backbone to their franchise birth.

Not even close, really.

Stop it.

Seattle would love a top 5 goalie and hockey's go to goalie on their team.

He will sell jerseys and put butts in seats.

That's all that matters.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

More important to consider whether seattle would even entertain the idea of picking Price at the expansion draft? Unlike Fleury, who had only two years left at a 5.75M Cap hit as a 32 and 33 yr-old G (coming off cup wins in 2016 and 2017 -- he was drafted for the 2017-18 season), Price would never have won a Cup and be arriving in Seattle with a 10.5M Cap hit for 5 remaining years, all as a 34, 35, 36, 37 and 38 yr-old G!

Objectively, acquiring Price may not be as attractive to Seattle as it was for Las Vegas to acquire Fleury as the backbone to their franchise birth.

Not even close, really.

An expansion team is not even liable to spend to the cap in it's first 5 years, unless they quickly become succesful, and even then, Price's actual salary would be attractive, because it's a much better cost control than 10.5 mil per.

They'd pay 7.5mil per for 5 years.

Habs could also preemptively trade Price to Seattle in the weeks before the expansion draft with a gentlemen's agreement on who Seattle will pick from Montreal (genre Charles Hudon), and this way, be able to cut down 1-2 mil on his salary, if needed.

 

[Habs10025]

Based on all the rumors (and on Bergevin's own comments after offer sheeting Aho) - I 100% guarantee you that Habs are still considering more offer sheets. Maybe it doesn't happen - but they're definitely considering them now.

This poll isn't about what you think Bergevin *will* do - but rather, what would you like to see us do in terms of offer sheets this summer? Here are the options:

1. Max Offer sheet - only for a specific player (as in, only Marner, or only Point, or only Laine etc - only one of them you think is worth that)

2. Max Offer sheet - multiple players (as in - you'd be ok max-offering sheeting any/many of the top RFAs, not just one specific one)

3. Offer sheet 2 1sts ~10.5M - multiple players (as in - you'd be ok max offer-sheeting many/any of the top RFAs at this price, not just one specific one)

4. Offer sheet 2 1sts ~10.5M - only for a specific player (as in - only one specific player you'd be willing to target at that price, not the rest)

5. Offer sheet again but don't go past the 1 1st round pick price (like Aho)

To be clear - when I say offer sheet multiple players, i'm not suggesting we actually go and sign/land more than 1 top RFA. I'm just saying - if you're willing to go max-offer sheet, are you willing to pay so high for *either* of Laine and Marner for example? Or do you only value one specific player so high - and the rest lower.

Curious to see what everyone's thoughts are. I know some here will say "no offer sheets at all - trade, or tank, or UFA, etc". I didn't include an option for you here. This poll is more under the premise that we're likely going to do more offer sheets - and what price would you be willing to pay for top RFAs (it's also not about offer sheeting lower end talent at the much lower thresholds).


If you're voting for the "only a specific player" options - please say which one you mean

Montreal won't offer sheet anyone and they shouldn't.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Stop it.

Seattle would love a top 5 goalie and hockey's go to goalie on their team.

He will sell jerseys and put butts in seats.

That's all that matters.

Doubt the Habs do this but I do agree Seattle would be very much interested in Price. Especially seeing what Fleury did for the Knights.

 

[cphabs]

We are going to have to pull a “Weber” or offer sheet to get quality.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I KNOW it won’t happen so please spare me the “it’ll never happen” retorts but, wouldn’t it be fun to see Bergevin offer Svechnikov the same offer he gave Aho just to see Carolina’s reaction. Lol.

Worst case scenario is they let him go, we have a power winger for a decade and we trade Domi for a 1st to raise cap and add to the prospect pool.

If only...