Off-Season Thread: Free Agency & Trade Talk

[obey86]

did you actually think about your funny line before you typed it?

the suggestion was some DRW fans wanted KH to trade nyquist and mantha and larkin and two 1st for jaybo and phaneuf and myers which would suggest we would have those 3 dmen right now had KH done what some fans wanted

so i politely said thats false, had we traded for jaybo nobody would have asked for phaneuf or myers and thus we would still have matha and larkin and our firsts and i took it a step further and said had we traded for bogo we would still have nyquist as well

see, thats why its important to look back at things properly when we choose to do so

not just spew rhetoric

Trading Tatar and Nyquist (or whatever the alleged proposed deal was) for just Jay Bo would not have made the defense significantly better. More pieces would still be needed. Something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson
DDK - Jaybo
Smith - Marchenko

....is still complete garbage. And now the Wings are down two younger/cheaper players in Tatar and Nyquist and still are in the position of needing to acquire more defensemen to upgrade the unit.

So you saying "no one asked for all 3 of those trades" doesn't make sense to me because if the only move we made was Jaybo all that does is make our offense significantly worse and our defense slightly better (but still garbage).

 

[obey86]

ok flashyG I will agree with you

but the assumption had we landed jaybo we still would have been dealing mantha for phaneuf AND larkin for Myers is absurd, and thats my only point on the matter

You think Jay Boowmeester would have been the only addition needed to complete the rebuild of d-corps? You can't be serious.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Is this a joke? The guy gets like 50 points every year. He's like a better mike green. Who is arguably our best dman

Mike green being described "arguably" our best d man is a joke

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

You should include the other amazing signings as well. We certainly don't want people to forget all the other amazing moves and signings that Holland has made over the last six seasons.

Mike Modano
Brad Richards
Dan Cleary x654

The compliance buyout twins (Kinda like the Euro twins, but even better)

Jordin Tootoo
Carlo Coliacovo

and last but certainly not least...Ian White.

And lets not forget such shrewd trade deadline acquisitions like Erik Cole, Marek Zidlicky, David Legwand and Kyle Quincey.

And he traded Jakub Kindl too. Holland is so ruthless. Best GM in the NHL.

342 stop gaps later and the Wings are finally at death's door hanging on for dear life, hoping 16 miracles happen to prevent the long overdue rebuild from finally happening.

Great post. Yes!!!


But wait a sec let's not forget mikael samuelsson 2.0

 

[jkutswings]

You think Jay Boowmeester would have been the only addition needed to complete the rebuild of d-corps? You can't be serious.

NOW who's playing the hindsight game?

At the time Bouwmeester was in discussion, he was still thought of pretty highly. That doesn't mean he would've been a defensive panacea, but based on what many people thought back then, he would've been the one major move, possibly with a couple minor ones to supplement.

And it's also a what if game to suppose he would have crashed and burned (or done well, for that matter) on this roster.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Mike green being described "arguably" our best d man is a joke

Yep. A 2nd pair dman who would be alright as a number 2 with a good top pair partner like shattenkirk being our best dman is a joke

He should retire.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

NOW who's playing the hindsight game?

At the time Bouwmeester was in discussion, he was still thought of pretty highly. That doesn't mean he would've been a defensive panacea, but based on what many people thought back then, he would've been the one major move, possibly with a couple minor ones to supplement.

And it's also a what if game to suppose he would have crashed and burned (or done well, for that matter) on this roster.

Would Jaybo really have been worth two 25+ goal young players? Not playing the hindsight game.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...urce=direct&utm_medium=linker-blackhawkup.com

His years from the Calgary trade haven't been very exciting. And that's with being on an exceptional roster in St Louis where he is a middle pairing guy. He is an offensive defenseman that was scoring around 30 points a year.

If we made the trade for Jaybo, everyone would be saying "oh what the ****, we have a 4.75M bottom pairing D, a 4.25M bottom pairing D and a 6.6M bottom pairing D.

 

[jkutswings]

I wasn't necessarily implying that I thought Jaybo was worth Nyquist and Tatar at the time; just countering the notion that people should've seen his deterioration coming.

For all we know, had they pulled the trigger on the deal, those forwards might've busted out of the NHL on another team. Lots of what ifs.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Whether you like the contract extension or not, Abdelkader is probably the most valuable player on the roster.

This is an excerpt from Mike Rupp and Ryan Whitney's playoff preview in the players tribune. I think Rupp sums up perfectly the problem with the current team make-up and was bang on in his prediction of how the series vs Tampa would go.



The Wings either need to get more guys like Abdelkader or convince some of the bigger guys to play more like him

See, that's fantastic: you could probably get someone to give you a first round pick for Abdelkader because they actually think he's a scoring line power forward! That would go a long way towards building a competitive team. This team will never be competitive during the next 2 years when Abdelkader will be roughly the same player. And then the sharp decline takes place. You know, the ones we've seen with Z, Kronwall, Mule, Ericsson, etc. So you get the benefit of trading him at his absolute peak value, you get an asset in return, and then you have all that cap space to potentially sign a real scoring line forward like Steven Stamkos.

As far as replacing him, first crack goes to Sheahan once you move him from center. He'll never be a good NHL center. However he's fully capable of replacing the MVP level Abdelkader.

 

[obey86]

Bouwmeester has an entire 2 more points than Jonathan Ericsson does over the last 2 seasons combined, despite playing for one of the best teams in the NHL, getting some PP time, and getting 3-4 more minutes of ice time per game than Ericsson does.

I'm sure that he would have solved all of the Wings defensive problems.... no need to trade more assets (Larkin, Mantha, 1st rounders, etc) for the defense after acquiring Bouwmeester.

Man, that trade would have been a disaster. As would have a trade for Meyers or a trade for Phaneuf given the rumors of what the other team was asking for in return for those players.

 

[Run the Jewels]

NOW who's playing the hindsight game?

At the time Bouwmeester was in discussion, he was still thought of pretty highly. That doesn't mean he would've been a defensive panacea, but based on what many people thought back then, he would've been the one major move, possibly with a couple minor ones to supplement.

And it's also a what if game to suppose he would have crashed and burned (or done well, for that matter) on this roster.

The one thing to note about the defense is how completely underhwelming Holland's efforts have been to improve the roster.

Completely fanned on Bouwmeester, Edler, Burns, Myers, Hamilton, Byfuglein. We were rumored to have been in negotiations for four of these guys. Nothing obviously happened.

Drafting and development, our primary focus, has resulted in absolutely nothing. A total wasteland. Jonathan Ericsson is our best home grown d-man since Niklas Kronwall. If that doesn't say it all I don't know what can possibly do a better job painting this situation as being the total tire fire that it's been. And we have good prospects who were highly rated. Brendan Smith was a Hobey Baker finalist, Ryan Sproul was CHL d-man of the year, Nick Jensen was an acclaimed d-man in college. This has been a massive failure.

Free agency has been a mixed bag. Carlo Colaiacovo was a compliance buyout. Kyle Quincey stuck but has never lived up to what Holland hoped he was getting when he spent a first round pick on him. The Wings have missed out on Ryan Suter, Dan Boyle, Christian Ehrhoff - thankfully - and Anton Stralman. Holland was able to land Mike Green and he's our one defenseman who is capable of cracking 40 points in a season. Danny DeKeyser has worked out as well as we could have hoped. This is the only area of talent acquisition where the situation isn't entirely bleak and without hope. Unfortunately we don't have any cap space to try to upgrade our defense in the one way we've had some modest amount of success.

In short Holland's efforts to rebuild the defense have largely been a barren wasteland. Complain that Bouwmeester or Myers wasn't worth trading for; it doesn't change the fact this organization has been totally incapable of addressing the complete lack of talent on defense.

 

[obey86]

The one thing to note about the defense is how completely underhwelming Holland's efforts have been to improve the roster.

Completely fanned on Bouwmeester, Edler, Burns, Myers, Hamilton, Byfuglein. We were rumored to have been in negotiations for four of these guys. Nothing obviously happened.

Drafting and development, our primary focus, has resulted in absolutely nothing. A total wasteland. Jonathan Ericsson is our best home grown d-man since Niklas Kronwall. If that doesn't say it all I don't know what can possibly do a better job painting this situation as being the total tire fire that it's been. And we have good prospects who were highly rated. Brendan Smith was a Hobey Baker finalist, Ryan Sproul was CHL d-man of the year, Nick Jensen was an acclaimed d-man in college. This has been a massive failure.

Free agency has been a mixed bag. Carlo Colaiacovo was a compliance buyout. Kyle Quincey stuck but has never lived up to what Holland hoped he was getting when he spent a first round pick on him. The Wings have missed out on Ryan Suter, Dan Boyle, Christian Ehrhoff - thankfully - and Anton Stralman. Holland was able to land Mike Green and he's our one defenseman who is capable of cracking 40 points in a season. Danny DeKeyser has worked out as well as we could have hoped. This is the only area of talent acquisition where the situation isn't entirely bleak and without hope. Unfortunately we don't have any cap space to try to upgrade our defense in the one way we've had some modest amount of success.

In short Holland's efforts to rebuild the defense have largely been a barren wasteland. Complain that Bouwmeester or Myers wasn't worth trading for; it doesn't change the fact this organization has been totally incapable of addressing the complete lack of talent on defense.

I've said it many times, the Wings biggest problem with the defense is that they don't draft enough defensemen high in the draft (rounds 1-3).

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I think there is some truth to that. Abdelkader is overvalued because he brings something that nobody else on the team brings.

He's far from the best player they have, but what he brings is so important that without him they are in real trouble. It's also likely why he got such a good deal.

Ideally you'd like some guys that can play in the dirty area's like Abby but with more skill. Which is something I'd rather address than bringing in another perimeter guy like Stamkos.

Perhaps Sheahan can adjust to that kind of role, maybe Mantha and Jurco have it in them too, but just adding a Stamkos isn't going to solve the problems the offence had.

Svechnikov is that guy.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

You think Jay Boowmeester would have been the only addition needed to complete the rebuild of d-corps? You can't be serious.

I think he would have been the ONLY dman they would have needed to trade for yes

Had they landed jaybo perhaps other dominos fall, maybe we dont resign JE to an atrocious contract, perhaps that would have left us with enough cap room to be able to sign another free agent?

who knows

the only thing we know or should know for sure is had we traded for jaybo(or better yet bogo or edler before that) we would not have traded(or fans would not have been clamouring for) mantha for phaneuf or larkin for myers etc etc

 

[Mister Ed]

Svechnikov is that guy.

Look at that smile, he's a real hockey player I tell ya!

 

[hyduK]

So Calgary needs a goalie...

Sounds like they wanted Anderson, Leafs got him. Then they were looking at Fleury but Pitts is asking for 6th OA.

Has Kenny kicked the tires?

 

[Reddwit]

So Calgary needs a goalie...

Sounds like they wanted Anderson, Leafs got him. Then they were looking at Fleury but Pitts is asking for 6th OA.

Has Kenny kicked the tires?

Just can't fathom why Calgary would take Jimmy when they could get Reimer, Niemi, Bernier, etc at a cheaper price. But stranger things have happened.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Just can't fathom why Calgary would take Jimmy when they could get Reimer, Niemi, Bernier, etc at a cheaper price. But stranger things have happened.

how much cheaper is their than free?

we retain 2 million and ask for a conditional 7th rd pick, condition is we win the cup in 2017

 

[Reddwit]

how much cheaper is their than free?

we retain 2 million and ask for a conditional 7th rd pick, condition is we win the cup in 2017

True, but thats only a net saving of like $1-2M when you consider we'll want to add an experienced back-up. And thats considering the fact that Howard has been a very mediocre starter. I'm not sure teams will even have any interest in him, seeing as he could just end up being a $3M back-up quality guy, and they're back to square one again, looking for that quality starter.

 

[Yemack]

Just can't fathom why Calgary would take Jimmy when they could get Reimer, Niemi, Bernier, etc at a cheaper price. But stranger things have happened.

Howard is better than Reimer and Bernier. Howard has some consistency issues at times but he has a history of carrying the team for an entire season.

If only Wings wouldnt need alot of cap space, I'd be fine with Howard going into next season.

 

[Reddwit]

Howard is better than Reimer and Bernier. Howard has some consistency issues at times but he has a history of carrying the team for an entire season.

If only Wings wouldnt need alot of cap space, I'd be fine with Howard going into next season.

True, but why wouldn't Calgary try their hand at Reimer or Bernier on a cheap, 1 year deal rather than sort out a retention deal for 3 years of Howard who isn't much better than Reimer but perhaps only more proven? There is no bidding war for Calgary. The list is short. If I'm a GM, I'm going to run with Reimer or some other FA to start out my season and see how it goes before I opt in for 3 years of Jim Howard.

 

[Reddwit]

Cam Fowler might be available, according to Kevin Weekes who apparently has connections to Anaheim according to Ducks fans. He's a Michigan boy, so I'm sure those tires will be kicked.

People are suggesting Tatar + Jurco/Pulks + 16OA for Fowler. That seems like a lot for a guy who might just be a more offensively gifted Dekeyser. It would look especially bad if Jurco/Pulkkinen found their stride with Anaheim.

I would do Tatar + Jurco/Pulks + Detroit's choice of 2017/2018 pick. I'm not that high on Fowler.

 

[Mister Ed]

Bernier is still a Leaf (1 year left at 4.15M) and Niemi still has 2 years left at 4.5M. Reimer is the top UFA still available and I would argue the only starter-potential goalie left.

Howard, at 5.29M for 3 more years, is a little more expensive than the other two, but Calgary has no goalies signed, so that would not be a problem. Gillies or Poulin would be the backup I assume and Howard would be the veteran starting goalie. I mean, who wouldn't want the runner up for the 2010 Calder Trophy who is also a 176 NHL games-winning goalie?

I completely understand that Bishop (5.95M 1 year left) / Fleury (5.75M 3 years left) / Elliott (2.5M 1 year left) are rumoured to be available, but they will come at a higher price (Rutherford is asking for the Flames 1st rounder, for example).

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So Calgary needs a goalie...

Sounds like they wanted Anderson, Leafs got him. Then they were looking at Fleury but Pitts is asking for 6th OA.

Has Kenny kicked the tires?

Rumor now is that Calgary is heavily pursuing Ben Bishop, Wonder how that will work out if Bishop is willing to waive his NMC for Calgary.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

how much cheaper is their than free?

we retain 2 million and ask for a conditional 7th rd pick, condition is we win the cup in 2017

Please. Holland actually likes Howard. He won't trade him for a 7th