Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Pt II: It's the off-season in November!... Wait. That's normal for baseball.

[Beaumaris]

I think it's one or the other. I'd love to have another lefty bat like Brantley, but Springer simply brings more to the table. Springer would be a massive upgrade on defense and offense. Hes a great player. It's crazy how deep the lineup could get with just a few signings and with the kids a year better.

Kids !

 

[Discoverer]

Marte got 2 mid tier prospects last offseason.

1) Keep in mind that Lindor is a 1 year player (the ability to potentially re-sign him at full price is a negligible benefit)

2) Pearson is worth more by himself than any other offer they will receive.

3) Their deadline hints that they value quantity and Mlb ready so guys like Espinal and Tellez could have value.

Mookie Betts didn't get a prospect close to Pearson's level last year. Based on that trade, you can probably cross Martin off the list, too.

 

[SDig14]

Betts didn't net a Pearson, Martin or arguably even a Groshans. And with how thin we are at front of the rotation starter prospects, I wouldn't trade SWR either. If they want something centered around Orelvis, Kirk, Manoa, then fine.

Gurriel for me would need to come with a handshake deal that he's signed long term.

 

[EpochLink]

George Springer rumors to the Jays, I know there is baggage here but I wouldn’t mind it. Trash cans or not, he’s a good baseball player and him getting rid of the stench of Houston would be a welcoming embrace.

 

[BAM]

For a 5+WAR SS? They'll get pretty close to that, and more players on top. Historically, you'll get 3-4 prospects in return, with the focus being 1 blue chip prospect, like Pearson, and you'll be lucky if one of those prospects works out.

Have you not been paying attention in recent years? That doesn't happen anymore, teams are smarter. Betts is probably the 2nd best player in baseball and got moved for much less...even with Price attached.

 

[Haringoth]

Also, I anticipate any trade for Lindor will have a PTBNL as the main piece, as there is a non-zero chance the season is disrupted, and a non-zero chance we get a 162 gamer. Maybe an A headliner if its a full season, and a B prospect if its not.

 

[shortfuze]

Have you not been paying attention in recent years? That doesn't happen anymore, teams are smarter. Betts is probably the 2nd best player in baseball and got moved for much less...even with Price attached.

But with price added wouldn’t that lessen betts price?

 

[BAM]

But with price added wouldn’t that lessen betts price?

There is a big difference between Lindor and Betts...

Not to mention...Pearson was arguably the top pitching prospect in MLB last year. That doesn't get moved for Lindor.

 

[phillipmike]

I have a few posts where I support trading for Lindor. But I only make a move if the trade is so highly in our favour. Like Lindor for our non-top 8 prospects. Tellez, Kay, Espinal, Adams, Merryweather, Hatch types.

There are some very good free agents out there, fill those spots for free now.

No need to trade prospects for 1 year of a SS when you can sign him, Seager, Correra or Story next off-season for nothing but money.

 

[Discoverer]

But with price added wouldn’t that lessen betts price?

To me, Price was basically neutral in that trade since Boston retained half his salary.

 

[xtra]

“That impacts the market for another Blue Jays target in George Springer, with whom they’ve progressed beyond just talking. Same thing with Michael Brantley, but while his left-handed bat and offensive profile are perfect for the batting order, how he fits defensively is less seamless. Since he’s limited to left field and DH, that means pushing Lourdes Gurriel Jr. out of a spot in which he just started settling in.”

Bruh, we are going after both Springer and Brantley eh?


Ight Shapiro. Do your best

I think it's one or the other. I'd love to have another lefty bat like Brantley, but Springer simply brings more to the table. Springer would be a massive upgrade on defense and offense. Hes a great player. It's crazy how deep the lineup could get with just a few signings and with the kids a year better.

the quote he posted doesn’t sound like it’s one or the other but rather they are going after both which leaves gurriel as the odd man out which could mean a key piece in a Lindor trade.

I’m of the mind that an ace is far more important than doing the above but what do I know

 

[landy92mack29]

He wasn't technically a prospect but Verdugo is one of the best young upcoming talents in the game so they did get a decent return for Betts who for whatever reason didn't want to sign longterm there

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Betts didn't net a Pearson, Martin or arguably even a Groshans. And with how thin we are at front of the rotation starter prospects, I wouldn't trade SWR either. If they want something centered around Orelvis, Kirk, Manoa, then fine.

Gurriel for me would need to come with a handshake deal that he's signed long term.

I will fight you right now.

 

[Discoverer]

He wasn't technically a prospect but Verdugo is one of the best young upcoming talents in the game so they did get a decent return for Betts who for whatever reason didn't want to sign longterm there

Verdugo was a good piece at the time, but he was a borderline Top 100 type with serious makeup concerns. Still nowhere near Pearson's value.

 

[landy92mack29]

Verdugo was a good piece at the time, but he was a borderline Top 100 type with serious makeup concerns. Still nowhere near Pearson's value.

He was the 32nd ranked prospect by mlb at the time he graduated off the list and considered one of the best pure hitting prospects. Was coming off a 3.2 war year in only 106 games so while Pearson's upside is higher Verdugo was more proven. Not saying they should move Pearson or any of the top prospects but a lot of people discredit just how good of a player Verdugo is and will be. Looking like a 5+ war guy for years to come

 

[Discoverer]

He was the 32nd ranked prospect by mlb at the time he graduated off the list and considered one of the best pure hitting prospects. Was coming off a 3.2 war year in only 106 games so while Pearson's upside is higher Verdugo was more proven. Not saying they should move Pearson or any of the top prospects but a lot of people discredit just how good of a player Verdugo is and will be. Looking like a 5+ war guy for years to come

Verdugo was just shy of a 5 fWAR pace in the shortened 2020 season despite running a .371 BABIP. He's a good player, but suggesting he's a 5+ WAR player going forward is ridiculously optimistic. He doesn't project for anything close to that.

 

[Discoverer]

The closest value to Verdugo I can think of it Gurriel. He has one year less of control, but he's far more proven at the MLB level than Verdugo was and doesn't have the makeup questions. Of course, the Jays also have far less incentive to include him than the Dodgers did since the Dodgers were loaded with OF and the Jays are very much not.

 

[heatersthebest]

Where's zeke these days? Did we ever get to hear him explain how Ryu doesn't count as a major signing?

Is it really fair to say that after signing the top pitcher on the market, who is not from the same background as most of the players in MLB, that the organization is viewed in a different light, or that now the Blue Jays are all of the sudden being aggressive in acquiring FA talent?
I mean it is a step, but saying that the Jays are "in" on all of the "top" FAs is really just that, saying it. They have said it before, and now once we have actually gotten that guy (Ryu) with the current management. Obviously the team has been in a rebuild, but that is one FA to get excited about over the course of the last 4 or 5 years.
I definitely feel better about the organization and management, but just as we shouldn't degrade the org for some of their past decisions doesn't mean we should praise them for making one signing. Adding one of these top FAs to the club will go a long way in galvanizing that belief.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I dont think Gurriel will ever be the big piece in a trade for a signed Lindor. Gurriel is young, but not that young. I think we'd be looking more at trade chips like Pearson if we're getting a superstar SS in return(who's signed). If you're willing to trade someone like a Pearson, you may as well go after an ace IMO, not a position player. Not that I'm looking to trade Pearson, I'm just thinking realistically. The cost for a signed Lindor will be expensive.

Given that Cleveland needs and wants young MLB outfielders, I can see Gurriel being the main return. Like I can see Gurriel, a B/C level outfield prospect or pitching prospect, and either a pick or PTBNL (potentially both if an agreed upon condition is reached).

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

George Springer rumors to the Jays, I know there is baggage here but I wouldn’t mind it. Trash cans or not, he’s a good baseball player and him getting rid of the stench of Houston would be a welcoming embrace.

As long as he's ok getting his signals from a man in white rather than trashcans it's cool.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[BAM]

He was the 32nd ranked prospect by mlb at the time he graduated off the list and considered one of the best pure hitting prospects. Was coming off a 3.2 war year in only 106 games so while Pearson's upside is higher Verdugo was more proven. Not saying they should move Pearson or any of the top prospects but a lot of people discredit just how good of a player Verdugo is and will be. Looking like a 5+ war guy for years to come

And Pearson has been ranked the 6th best prospect coming into the year and arguably the top pitching prospect with the best stuff. As talented as Verdugo was as a prospect, he hasn't been in Pearson's tier of prospect status

Verdugo is a stud though and while he can't replace Betts, he should give the Red Sox a 5+ war guy like you said.

 

[Discoverer]

And Pearson has been ranked the 6th best prospect coming into the year and arguably the top pitching prospect with the best stuff. As talented as Verdugo was as a prospect, he hasn't been in Pearson's tier of prospect status

Verdugo is a stud though and while he can't replace Betts, he should give the Red Sox a 5+ war guy like you said.

I have a really hard time believing we should expect Verdugo to be a top 25 position player in the league going forward.

 

[Kurtz]

5 Fwar is a lot - that's superstar numbers. Lindor is projected to be a 5.1 fWar player next year.

 

[BAM]

I have a really hard time believing we should expect Verdugo to be a top 25 position player in the league going forward.

In 2019, Verdugo put up 3.2 war over 106 games with the Dodgers as a 23 year old (4.89 war/162 games)

Followed that up with 1.9 war over 53 games with the Red Sox last season (5.81 war/162 games) and finished 12th in MVP voting.

The guy is entering his age 25 season next year. If Verdugo continues his development I don't see any reason why he can't be a 4-5+ war player in his prime assuming full health.