Post-Game Talk: October 5, 2013| Flyers 1 at Canadiens 4

[FlyerFire]

No, but Aaron Ekblad certainly would.

Aaron Ekblad, seriously? We need a solution THIS year- not years from now

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

Aaron Ekblad, seriously? We need a solution THIS year- not years from now

I guess it depends what you mean by a solution, but I think it is pretty clear that this team, as currently constructed, is not going to compete for a cup, and that no one or two in-season moves is going to change that.

That's not to say I've given up on the season. I thought they'd be in a fight for 4th / 5th in the division, and I still think that's likely, but it certainly hasn't been a great start.

 

[Harold Bingo]

It's not the passing, it's because there is no support for the puck. They are too spread out so the D have to hit a guy with a rocket pass the length or width of the rink every time. The other teams just wait and pick them off or the pass is so hard it goes off the receiver's stick and over the glass.

That is all just horrible coaching. We have the worst system in the league, and you cam tell the players don't believe in it - they never seem to know where they should be, who their man is or why.

So, the players deserve no blame? Holmgren fires Lavi, hires a new coach and everything will be peachy?

That sounded pretty snarky, but I didn't intend it that way. Truth be told, I'm ready for Lavi to be fired, as well.

 

[Prongo]

I wish Holmgren could ship out Coburn (retaining salary if he has to) for a young defenseman like Jake Gardiner.

If Homer were to ever trade Coburn, there is no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't need to retain salary. It really is two games into the season though, much more time is needed to evaluate the new players and how this team will gel. If it is still going bad around the 10 game mark, then it's time to start thinking about firing the coach if they still are struggling. No reason to trade any players until the deadline also if they are in that position, drive up there price.

 

[MsMeow]

It's easy to say trades should be made but when you're so close to the cap ceiling, it isn't easy, especially when other teams know you are in a fix. This is exactly why Upshall was traded for Carcillo and a 2nd and we all hoped Holmgren would have learned from it but he didn't. As long as he thinks he has to spend every penny we're going to have a problem.

 

[Prongo]

It's easy to say trades should be made but when you're so close to the cap ceiling, it isn't easy, especially when other teams know you are in a fix. This is exactly why Upshall was traded for Carcillo and a 2nd and we all hoped Holmgren would have learned from it but he didn't. As long as he thinks he has to spend every penny we're going to have a problem.

We are not in a cap crunch like we were at that time though. If the Flyers were trading any players(it really is extremely early for this talk) they most likely would be getting prospects and draft picks in return. We don't need to trade anyone away for salary cap reasons, so Homer would get fair value(should) on the players if he ever decided to move them.

 

[BernieParent]

So we are fireing Lavi and Homer, ripping the C from Giroux (who is overrated) and bringing in lots of fighters... am I doing this right?

No, no, no. We're firing Lavi and Homer, ripping the C from Giroux (who is overrated) and replacing everybody with everybody else. Get with the program! Sheesh!

 

[Harold Bingo]

No, no, no. We're firing Lavi and Homer, ripping the C from Giroux (who is overrated) and replacing everybody with everybody else. Get with the program! Sheesh!

Rosehill better not be getting replaced. Guy's irreplaceable, like Beyonce.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Rosehill better not be getting replaced. Guy's irreplaceable, like Beyonce.

Agreed. His 1:47 of ice time today will be glorious watching him skate around trying to figure out why Canes didn't dress a no talent goon ?

talbot on the 3rd line while Newbury is eating precious cap space, this is how a team is constructed to compete now, can't wait.

 

[dats81]

I don't care who takes over for Lavi but it's almost safe to say that any half decent coach would do better with this roster than Lavi at the moment....
Whatever he has been trying the last one and a half years is not getting them any points in the standings.

 

[FlyerFire]

Rosehill better not be getting replaced. Guy's irreplaceable, like Beyonce.

Thats Homer's "high energy guy". Don't be blasphemous

 

[Larry44]

I guess it depends what you mean by a solution, but I think it is pretty clear that this team, as currently constructed, is not going to compete for a cup, and that no one or two in-season moves is going to change that.

That's not to say I've given up on the season. I thought they'd be in a fight for 4th / 5th in the division, and I still think that's likely, but it certainly hasn't been a great start.

I've given up on this season, which I didn't expect to - and not this early. This team just flat out stinks. I think the players can play better, but they aren't being put in a situation to succeed, which is the coach's job. Their heads aren't in the game at all - and I think it's because the stretch pass/no puck support system is so patently stupid it goes against everything they've learned growing up. They don't look like they are buying in to whatever the coaches are saying and I don't blame them. You can't 'go long' on every play or the D figures it out quickly by covering deep and blitzing.... (see Devils vs. Flyers ad nauseum).

 

[StevensCakeBakerBacker]

It's easy to say trades should be made but when you're so close to the cap ceiling, it isn't easy, especially when other teams know you are in a fix. This is exactly why Upshall was traded for Carcillo and a 2nd and we all hoped Holmgren would have learned from it but he didn't. As long as he thinks he has to spend every penny we're going to have a problem.

The trade was to make room for Giroux to stay on the roster, not just Carcillo for Upshall in a vacuum.

You have a problem with a GM using every penny to put together a competitive team? What sacrifices were made due to cap reasons? What did this team not pull off because the cap restricted them?

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

If Homer were to ever trade Coburn, there is no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't need to retain salary. It really is two games into the season though, much more time is needed to evaluate the new players and how this team will gel. If it is still going bad around the 10 game mark, then it's time to start thinking about firing the coach if they still are struggling. No reason to trade any players until the deadline also if they are in that position, drive up there price.

The "new" players are veterans who have been around the league long enough that it should take them next to no time to get themselves acclimated to the team. Coburn has been here long enough now that he is what he is - an inconsistent defenseman who can be all world one minute and extremely mediocre the next.

I feel for Coburn though because I really think he doesn't know what Laviolette wants from him. I get the impression that Laviolette barks at him to play a defensive style and when Coburn does, Laviolette barks at him for not being more offensive. It's a no win situation and I can see why a guy like Coburn often looks out of the loop (I can't believe it, but I'm actually defending Coburn).

And it's not just Coburn. The rest of the players just look confused by what Laviolette is telling them. And that right there usually means he's lost the group and he needs to go. I could see a coach with a defensive acumen coming in here and getting through to Coburn and him being better for it. He'll never be a world beater, but there's no reason to believe he can't be an effective shut down defender with elite skating ability.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The "new" players are veterans who have been around the league long enough that it should take them next to no time to get themselves acclimated to the team. Coburn has been here long enough now that he is what he is - an inconsistent defenseman who can be all world one minute and extremely mediocre the next.

I feel for Coburn though because I really think he doesn't know what Laviolette wants from him. I get the impression that Laviolette barks at him to play a defensive style and when Coburn does, Laviolette barks at him for not being more offensive. It's a no win situation and I can see why a guy like Coburn often looks out of the loop (I can't believe it, but I'm actually defending Coburn).

And it's not just Coburn. The rest of the players just look confused by what Laviolette is telling them. And that right there usually means he's lost the group and he needs to go. I could see a coach with a defensive acumen coming in here and getting through to Coburn and him being better for it. He'll never be a world beater, but there's no reason to believe he can't be an effective shut down defender with elite skating ability.

Hartnell pretty much flat-out said that in the offseason, didn't he?

If Hartnell and other players told Homer in the post-season interviews "Hey, we have no idea what the hell the coach is doing or wants from us" and Homer decided "This is a man I should keep," I don't know what to say.

Well, I do know what to say, but most of it will be asterisked out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The trade was to make room for Giroux to stay on the roster, not just Carcillo for Upshall in a vacuum.

You have a problem with a GM using every penny to put together a competitive team? What sacrifices were made due to cap reasons? What did this team not pull off because the cap restricted them?

Getting a real goalie?

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

Getting a real goalie?

Who was available?

I mean we can talk about whether the Flyers should have given up assets for Bernier or Schnieder, but in terms of free agency, the pickings were pretty slim.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who was available?

I mean we can talk about whether the Flyers should have given up assets for Bernier or Schnieder, but in terms of free agency, the pickings were pretty slim.

And then when it was time to get a goalie they had to blow up the team.

 

[StevensCakeBakerBacker]

Hartnell pretty much flat-out said that in the offseason, didn't he?

If Hartnell and other players told Homer in the post-season interviews "Hey, we have no idea what the hell the coach is doing or wants from us" and Homer decided "This is a man I should keep," I don't know what to say.

Well, I do know what to say, but most of it will be asterisked out.

I have never been in the Flyers locker room, but I'd imagine Lavy wants Hartnell to not fall over like an idiot 10 times per game. I don't think Lavy is above criticism, and am fine if they got rid of him if a better option is available, but the players have been in plenty of positions to score goals and just flat out sucked.

IMO, the team seems to lack leadership on the ice. They deflate and get rattled rather easily. I think it's just a matter of all the new pieces falling into place. This team will compete, but need a piece to really be a threat.

 

[StevensCakeBakerBacker]

And then when it was time to get a goalie they had to blow up the team.

The team was "blown up" for other reasons, not solely to pay Bryz $5mill/per. You seriously think Carter and Richards were moved to make room for Bryz?

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Hartnell pretty much flat-out said that in the offseason, didn't he?

If Hartnell and other players told Homer in the post-season interviews "Hey, we have no idea what the hell the coach is doing or wants from us" and Homer decided "This is a man I should keep," I don't know what to say.

Well, I do know what to say, but most of it will be asterisked out.

Yep, but at the same time, Holmgren was the one who attached his horses to the Laviolette cart. When the Flyers moved Richards and Carter (and it can be debated about whether or not the team is better off for it), Holmgren sent a loud shot in the locker room that the coach is never at fault. Laviolette was given pretty much complete autonomy and it's coming back to bite them. If Holmgren fires Laviolette, he loses face and players know it. If Holmgren keeps Laviolette, the players end up revolting. I'd certainly be interested in knowing what's being said in the locker room right now and whether or not players are openly defiant of Laviolette and ignoring him.......

 

[Garbage Goal]

I have never been in the Flyers locker room, but I'd imagine Lavy wants Hartnell to not fall over like an idiot 10 times per game. I don't think Lavy is above criticism, and am fine if they got rid of him if a better option is available, but the players have been in plenty of positions to score goals and just flat out sucked.

IMO, the team seems to lack leadership on the ice. They deflate and get rattled rather easily. I think it's just a matter of all the new pieces falling into place. This team will compete, but need a piece to really be a threat.

This sounds exactly like the Richards/Carter talk from once upon a day. The guys that won a Cup not even a few seasons after leaving Philadelphia.

 

[Embiid]

Hartnell pretty much flat-out said that in the offseason, didn't he?

If Hartnell and other players told Homer in the post-season interviews "Hey, we have no idea what the hell the coach is doing or wants from us" and Homer decided "This is a man I should keep," I don't know what to say.

Well, I do know what to say, but most of it will be asterisked out.

Yes he did...I quoted it from an article....I wish I could find it but basically he said they were confused with what exactly Lavi wanted them to implement....

Again Holmgren is a fool for doubling down on Lavi but it really was a political decision and not a hockey decision b/c he knew that firing Lavi would be an indictment on him as well since he didn't help with his bad offseason. They all just circled the wagons....

 

[FlyingPhilly]

So, should we hope for a GM that comes in with a plan that involves getting Ekblad and McDavid while going through a couple bad seasons?

 

[Embiid]

Yep, but at the same time, Holmgren was the one who attached his horses to the Laviolette cart. When the Flyers moved Richards and Carter (and it can be debated about whether or not the team is better off for it), Holmgren sent a loud shot in the locker room that the coach is never at fault. Laviolette was given pretty much complete autonomy and it's coming back to bite them. If Holmgren fires Laviolette, he loses face and players know it. If Holmgren keeps Laviolette, the players end up revolting. I'd certainly be interested in knowing what's being said in the locker room right now and whether or not players are openly defiant of Laviolette and ignoring him.......

Again..I think Snider played a big part in it as well. He pretty much said we are not going to fire coaches like we have and now it will come down on the players. The Richards and Carter trades were a reset for Lavi but the Flyers again should have done their homework a little more and considered the flaws of he coach as well. I was ok with the trades and the returns but I did have my concerns that the coach also bore responsibility. The issue was that Lavi's General...Pronger was more old school in the Messier mold and he supported his coach and believed you had to do so and Pronger was the go between. Kind of like I noted when you have a hard ass coach you need an equally strong personality as captain. Richards was more of a players captain and hence the divide in the room between the younger guys and the vets. It was a cultural problem. Once Pronger went down after assuming the mantle from Richards.....then G took over and he is more of a players captain as well and I feel he doesn't fully endorse Lavi as well at least in the locker room and of late on the ice.