WHY would Oakland get a new NFL franchise that's not the Raiders..... which are now firmly in Vegas, ads, that's why the Raiders left to begin with
Oakland A's and Tampa Bay Rays Potential Relocation Thread
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Cal could really use a new football stadium though. By having it built to NFL specifications in Oakland, it paves the way for a potential return of the NFL to Oakland.
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
As always, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Yeah, Cal should leave their national landmark of a stadium to go play off campus in Oakland. C'mon now...
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
That they spent $321 million to retrofit and renovate in the last 10 years.
Which is at the crux of Cal’s problem discussed in passing in another thread.
KevFu
Registered User
But the A's wouldn't be "stuck" in Oakland in that scenario. They'd be free to build a stadium anywhere within the market: San Francisco, Santa Clara, San Jose, anywhere in the area. The Giants were TRYING to get a new stadium in 1989 and sold in 1992. (Candlestick was 36 years old and the Coliseum was 26 years old). The A's are only stuck in Oakland NOW because the Giants stayed put and the 1999 type meant the A's couldn't build in Santa Clara/San Jose.
The whole "none of the other sports leagues has a problem with it" isn't valid at all.
NHL - non-traditional market that had a massive deficit in terms of US markets in the 1990s. And the Seals thing didn't work exceptionally well. The Sharks HAVE been very successful as an expansion team and it's largely because they have the best of both worlds: The Sharks were THE only team in San Jose (before the 49ers moved to Santa Clara) and the only one with San Jose in the name... So it's like a Nashville or Columbus situation where you have a loyal fan base from "The only game in town." But the suburbs of San Jose (aka RSN TV territory) are SF/OAK/Sacramento, which are the #4 megalopolis in the country.
NFL - (A) they HAD two Bay Area teams for a long time and are only powerless to stop relocations to open markets unlike MLB can BECAUSE the Oakland owner won a lawsuit with the NFL. (B) Only national TV contracts, no local regional sports network revenues, rendering the topic moot.
NBA - Actually HAS two teams: The Warriors who played in Oakland, now San Francisco; and the Sacramento Kings, who despite SF/OAK and SJ and SAC being listed as three separate markets, are one big TV market for the purposes of regional sports networks, which is where the big sports money comes from.
The Dodgers were definitely against the Giants moving because had it happened, the NL West would have been: Los Angeles, San Diego, Houston (CTZ), Cincinnati (ETZ), Atlanta (ETZ), Tampa (ETZ). Not exactly "West." It would have done damage to their TV revenues to play only 9 road games at 7 pm and all the rest at 4 or 5.
KevFu
Registered User
The point that there's problems is when the price gets too high to have enough buyers, so there are far more sellers than there are buyers.
However, the difference between closed sports leagues and the housing market is that home sellers usually need to sell because they're moving, or can't afford to keep living in the house.
Sports team owners CAN make money owning their teams if they want to stop using them as tax shields and it's really not that hard to do it because sports are cyclical and have systems in place for competitive balance. (Draft, Luxury Tax, Revenue Sharing)
As we all know, California has the greatest concentration of teams in a single league of any of the big 4 leagues with 5 MLB teams. And I'm on the "keep the A's in Oakland" train.
One day I hope California's MLB count will be 6 teams with the addition of a team in Sacramento, which is a pretty large TV market - it's currently ranked #20, making it the largest US TV market in either the Mountain or Pacific Time Zones without an MLB team of its own. Portland isn't far behind at #21, but before awarding Sacramento a team, I want two more Western teams not in California to be awarded - which ideally would be Portland and Las Vegas. Salt Lake City can then join much later alongside Sacramento.
One day I hope California's MLB count will be 6 teams with the addition of a team in Sacramento, which is a pretty large TV market - it's currently ranked #20, making it the largest US TV market in either the Mountain or Pacific Time Zones without an MLB team of its own. Portland isn't far behind at #21, but before awarding Sacramento a team, I want two more Western teams not in California to be awarded - which ideally would be Portland and Las Vegas. Salt Lake City can then join much later alongside Sacramento.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
This is your occasional reminder that there is very little about California that could be considered “concentrated.” San Francisco kind of qualifies. I’ve driven it enough (add a couple years of residence) to know. That’s actually relevant if you WANT to see Sacramento get another big league team, because I will not be among the people who consider Sacramento to be a satellite of the Bay Area.
But the whole Sacramento-MLS saga, by my understanding, isn’t simply an ownership failure. I say that because that market for MLS should have been a no-brainer, and someone else should have stepped in. Nobody did, at least to this point. That happened for reasons. The primary question about the market is probably the amount of disposable income in it.
But the whole Sacramento-MLS saga, by my understanding, isn’t simply an ownership failure. I say that because that market for MLS should have been a no-brainer, and someone else should have stepped in. Nobody did, at least to this point. That happened for reasons. The primary question about the market is probably the amount of disposable income in it.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Southern CA is very very concentrated
20-25 million people live in this area and it also includes a giant marine base and the green is national forests. It's pretty damn concentrated
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PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Try to imagine the population at New York City’s density. I have high standards.
In reality, this megalopolis is a bit spread out. Not by Texas standards, but it is spread out. Besides, you cut off Santa Clarita, Lancaster, and points east of San Bernardino and Riverside that are included in your population total. it’s 123 miles between Crypto.com Arena and the Padres Ballpark, so just know that a similar picture of NYC that cuts off Connecticut includes Philadelphia and reaches into Delaware.
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Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Earthquakes are the key here. We can't build too high.
Those parts I left out are pretty low to super low areas of population. I grabbed the denser portion. Most of San Berdoo is desert. Most of Riverside and San Berdoo's population are closer to LA, OC and SD. The rest is coyotes and cactus. Remember our counties are like East Coast states.
There is also a pretty big area between there that is Camp Pendleton, which is prime real estate and would probably mean several million more living there
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PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Which reminds me to actually drive to Arrowhead and the San Gabriels next time. But the height restriction is part of my point. Could have been done more densely, though “should you” is a relevant concern. Then there’s water.
BTW, at least by the “official numbers,” the counties of Ventura, Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Riverside, Orange, and San Diego Counties total about 22 million. I wasn’t going to mention how San Berdoo could be considered a suburb of both Los Angeles and Las Vegas (yeah, I know, it takes a certain insanity to live in the eastern reaches of that county), and there I go again.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Vegas? Lol No. I think you might be underestimating how desolate it is out there
It's crazy for anyone to live anywhere in San Berdoo county, But almost no one lives out near vegas
The county is outliined in red. All of the population is at the bottom left. The rest is desert, Barstow, an occasional gas station and that stupid termometer in Baker
Unofficial, but I think it is safe to say that 90% of the county's population is here above the red line
Riverside County is not as extreme as San Berdoo with barren wastelands, but other than Palm Springs and some othersettlements near Josha Tree It is pretty desolate East of say Moreno Valley and Beaumont
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LadyStanley
Registered User
Las Vegas went from forbidden city to pro sports hotbed — and it's not done yet
Sin City has transformed from a barren wasteland into a sprawling metropolis in the world of sports. And it's not done growing just yet.
theathletic.com
Paywall. Evolution of Vegas as a sports town.
LadyStanley
Registered User
Rob Manfred expresses doubts on Athletics' Oakland stadium plan
While Rob Manfred expressed optimism in Rays ownership to construct a new stadium in the Tampa Bay area, he was doubtful of the current situation underway with the Athletics in Oakland.
Manfred does not think Howard Terminal stadium will happen.
MMC
Global Moderator
LadyStanley
Registered User
Vegas is not a slam dunk for MLB, especially in the AL.
81 openings is a tough nut to conquer - Milwaukee is a small market but they do very well at the gate.
www.espn.com
A Vegas TV footprint might include Salt Lake City but that's it.
The Rays do have a suitable TV footprint and decent ratings but the location of 'The Trop' hurts attendance. A move to the Tampa side would help but financing a stadium there will be difficult.
81 openings is a tough nut to conquer - Milwaukee is a small market but they do very well at the gate.
2024 MLB Attendance - Major League Baseball - ESPN
Check out this 2024 report of MLB attendance sortable by both baseball stadium and team.
A Vegas TV footprint might include Salt Lake City but that's it.
The Rays do have a suitable TV footprint and decent ratings but the location of 'The Trop' hurts attendance. A move to the Tampa side would help but financing a stadium there will be difficult.
MMC
Global Moderator
4 developers apply to redevelop St. Petersburg’s Tropicana Field
The city only released the names of developers. It says full proposals will be available next week.
MMC
Global Moderator
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
Gotta wonder if this factors into the A's decision process about Las Vegas at all. Yeah, baseball stadiums generally have less non baseball events but concerts more and more are going to baseball fields, especially domed ones.
Allegiant Stadium in 2022 had the most "non resident team" event ticket revenue in the world at $182.5 million (1.02 million tickets). Non resident team just means the Raiders games are not included in the figures.
EDIT: UNLV Football also excluded as a resident team
www.reviewjournal.com
Allegiant Stadium in 2022 had the most "non resident team" event ticket revenue in the world at $182.5 million (1.02 million tickets). Non resident team just means the Raiders games are not included in the figures.
EDIT: UNLV Football also excluded as a resident team
Allegiant Stadium’s 1 million fans tops international list of venues
Allegiant Stadium, Dolby Live, and Resorts World Theatre top Billboad’s annual list of international venues.
www.reviewjournal.com
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LadyStanley
Registered User
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
Should've noted that, they excluded UNLV as well as a resident team
I thought the location was the biggest issue... why are they proposing a new stadium in the same area?
MMC
Global Moderator
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