Oakland A's and Tampa Bay Rays Potential Relocation Thread

[HisIceness]

The A's are still in Oakland? Damn, good (or maybe not?) for them.

 

[KevFu]

Vegas should get an expansion franchise and the As need to get Howard Terminal done. For the health of the league.

That's not happening. The Vegas "buy in" is too large compared to the other cities. Vegas needs a dome with AC. The other candidates don't need AC, or a full blown roof; which lowers the cost of a stadium significantly.

MLB is going to set the price of the teams at the highest amount the ownership groups can swing. So if each group can come up with $3.5 billion to build a stadium and buy a team, MLB can pick the cities spending $1 billlion stadium stadium and get $2.5b each for the expansion fee.


The way I read the tea leaves of the few items that have leaked regarding MLB expansion, it appears that Nashville is serious and ready to buy an expansion team. And MLB is looking for a second market to be as serious (and of course, TB/OAK situations to resolve).

For Montreal, there's the stadium issue. It's far more challenging for them, given that the American cities' culture of giving billions to owners to build stadiums isn't shared by Provinces.

Portland seems to have a stadium plan that the city will go along with, but the money from ownership could be the issue given how large the "ownership group" is. MLB might be looking for a bigger fish to be lead.

Vegas hasn't had anyone even talk about getting expansion if they can't get the A's, aside from government officials (who wouldn't be an owner).

 

[BJNT]

If Michael Jordan is interested in a team and puts together an ownership group with a stadium plan. Watch how fast Charlotte moves up the list.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

If Michael Jordan is interested in a team and puts together an ownership group with a stadium plan. Watch how fast Charlotte moves up the list.

Jordan already has the Hornets..... and he backed into that deal/arena and all when the original team transferred to New Orleans.... add to that MJ already is part owner in 23XI Racing, hence where the 23 comes from and has attended multiple Cup races as majority owner.... the only reason that was done is to fulfill his late father's dream, MJ Never made it past AA.... IT just happened that the White Sox and Bulls are co-owned by Reinsdorf....

remember it was BET and Robert Johnson who brought the then Bobcats to Charlotte.

 

[oknazevad]

But the point is Michael Jordan has the name to get attention to a Charlotte bid.

That said, there has been very little scuttlebutt out of Charlotte. I'd say they're a distant 5th of all potential candidates.

 

[Headshot77]

Yeah I don't really understand why MLB isn't in the Carolinas. Massive hole in their region map IMO.

 

[KevFu]

Eh, the map isn't important. (I mean, draw two lines on a map: SEA to PHX, and MIN to DAL... and almost HALF the land mass of the continental US is between those lines and only Denver and Kansas City are MLB markets in that space)

There's 10.7 million people in North Carolina, so them having teams makes sense. But the difference between them and other states is the city centers:

Georgia is 11 million, but 6m are in Atlanta.
Michigan is 10 million people, but 4.3m are in Detroit
Arizona is 7.3 million people, but 6m are in Phoenix
Virginia is 8.7 million, but 3.2 million of them live in the DC market (and DC has all the Maryland side for 6m). So those are Big Four cities.

In North Carolina, of the 10.7m people, only 2.7m are in Charlotte and 1.5 are in Raleigh.

So Charlotte is in the same boat as Portland or Nashville.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Eh, the map isn't important. (I mean, draw two lines on a map: SEA to PHX, and MIN to DAL... and almost HALF the land mass of the continental US is between those lines and only Denver and Kansas City are MLB markets in that space)

There's 10.7 million people in North Carolina, so them having teams makes sense. But the difference between them and other states is the city centers:

Georgia is 11 million, but 6m are in Atlanta.
Michigan is 10 million people, but 4.3m are in Detroit
Arizona is 7.3 million people, but 6m are in Phoenix
Virginia is 8.7 million, but 3.2 million of them live in the DC market (and DC has all the Maryland side for 6m). So those are Big Four cities.

In North Carolina, of the 10.7m people, only 2.7m are in Charlotte and 1.5 are in Raleigh.

So Charlotte is in the same boat as Portland or Nashville.

Sounds like the perfect state to have 12 minor league teams.

 

[MMC]

Can someone explain why MLB isn't trying to make more of a push to keep the A's in the Bay Area? They really don't seem like they'd mind at all if they packed their shit and headed to Las Vegas. Usually leagues seem to be a lot more protective of their existing markets, and the Bay is a big one.

 

[BB79]

Oakland A’s Win Appeal for Howard Terminal Development

MLB team and city to resume negotiations for $12B deal for ballpark and surrounding acreage.

therealdeal.com

I'm hoping they stay in Oakland. This is good news

 

[Mightygoose]

Can someone explain why MLB isn't trying to make more of a push to keep the A's in the Bay Area? They really don't seem like they'd mind at all if they packed their shit and headed to Las Vegas. Usually leagues seem to be a lot more protective of their existing markets, and the Bay is a big one.

I wonder if MLB has started to think of the Bay Area as a one team market. With the Raiders gone baseball is the only major league left with 2. Granted how it's divided (i e Giants have San Jose) the whole area is not a true 2 team market

Plus with Vegas being small yet every other league is either there or had ambitions to do so, it's a way to get in without dividing the pie with expansion but still keep their foot in the Bay Area

 

[KevFu]

Can someone explain why MLB isn't trying to make more of a push to keep the A's in the Bay Area? They really don't seem like they'd mind at all if they packed their shit and headed to Las Vegas. Usually leagues seem to be a lot more protective of their existing markets, and the Bay is a big one.

It's pretty simple. Every commissioner is going to say/do the thing that keeps the "free stadium gravy train" running the most. "Franchise Free Agency" with cities offering stadiums instead of contracts is "Good for the league."

Which is smart for all the commissioners to do. Just not with Oakland because (see below)

I wonder if MLB has started to think of the Bay Area as a one team market. With the Raiders gone baseball is the only major league left with 2. Granted how it's divided (i e Giants have San Jose) the whole area is not a true 2 team market

Plus with Vegas being small yet every other league is either there or had ambitions to do so, it's a way to get in without dividing the pie with expansion but still keep their foot in the Bay Area

MLB would be VERY STUPID to believe that the Bay Area is a one-team market. When you look at CSA's, the Bay Area is 5th with 9.5 million people, and that doesn't count Sacramento, which is right there, like 60 miles away; or Fresno, which is in the TV market.

The Bay Area is huge by population, and the Bay Area is also CONNECTED in a way other markets aren't. Unlike the Phoenix metro area -- where they talk about going to other areas like it's going to Disneyworld, the Bay Area people don't think twice about going to sporting events.

I had coworkers who had season tickets to the Giants, Warriors or Sacramento Kings, while living 1-2 hours from them. One of them didn't even have a driver's license! I don't know if it's BART that makes them like that, compared to the very limited PHX light rail. But BART is great and expanding to make a total loop around the bay from SF-OAK-SJ. And extends east to the I-5 corridor so going from Sacramento to San Jose is not hard at all.


But the big reason that you NEED to A's to stay... is because it's going to be impossible to put a second team back there. The rules are different now (and that's what led to the San Jose typo). The NATIONAL LEAGUE had to approve Oakland moving there from Kansas City. It took 9 of 12 votes, not a one-team veto like the NHL in Southern Ontario.

The area has plenty of people to support two teams, but the two teams need to be in two of the three cities that are among the biggest four, AND connected to the others (which eliminates Sacramento).

THIS is perfect for everyone:

SF - MLB/NBA
OAK - NFL/MLB
SJ - NFL/NHL/MLS
SAC - NBA/MLS

But the Raiders screwed it up and MLB might screw it up too.

 

[LadyStanley]

SJ just added NWSL team.

WNBA is noticeably absent from NorCal.

 

[KevFu]

SJ just added NWSL team.

WNBA is noticeably absent from NorCal.

That will probably change. WNBA is gonna expand soon and Bay Area is probably very high on their list.

 

[LadyStanley]

(Bay Area TV pundit)
Since 2018, the As have spent ~$100m to pursue Howard Terminal new stadium.

Might they be waiting to see what Nevada/Clark County offer on potential Las Vegas stadium?

 

[PCSPounder]

Portland seems to have a stadium plan that the city will go along with, but the money from ownership could be the issue given how large the "ownership group" is. MLB might be looking for a bigger fish to be lead.

The group involved has been telling people that they’re looking at suburban sites. Theoretically, they haven’t given up on the Terminal 1 site, but it sure sounds like there’s zero momentum… for ANY of it.

Maybe the most curious measure of what’s going on here… the owner of the Hillsboro Hops (High A Northwest League) had been talking about making renovations to Ron Tonkin Field to draw concerts and business events and improve player security. Last month, all of a sudden, they announce that they will be funding “most” of a new $120 million ballpark across the driveway from the current ballpark, with a modest expansion of capacity. Which, um, what? Somehow I don’t think this investment gets made if the Major League proposal had any traction.

 

[KevFu]

The Oakland Coliseum is so bad that for last night's game, the visiting TV booth couldn't be used because of the condition it was in.... thanks to a Possum (or family of) that has been living there for years.

 

[MMC]

 

[oknazevad]

So, of course, fans are now bringing stuffed rally possums with them to the game.

 

[HisIceness]

Yeah I don't really understand why MLB isn't in the Carolinas. Massive hole in their region map IMO.

Simple. Charlotte is tapped out in the sports dollar and is already pretty fickle anyway, and Raleigh really isn't big enough on its own for 82 home games in the dead heat of muggy summer nights.

Ironically the Minnesota Twins once flirted with Kernersville (in-between Winston-Salem and Greensboro) about 25 years ago but trust me when I say that would have been a major mistake.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Simple. Charlotte is tapped out in the sports dollar and is already pretty fickle anyway, and Raleigh really isn't big enough on its own for 82 home games in the dead heat of muggy summer nights.

Ironically the Minnesota Twins once flirted with Kernersville (in-between Winston-Salem and Greensboro) about 25 years ago but trust me when I say that would have been a major mistake.

On top of that any new team in the Southeast has a massive uphill battle against The Braves. Between historic success and the decades of coverage on TBS, The Braves flat out own the Southeast fan market and at this point it's generational.

 

[Cynicaps]

Simple. Charlotte is tapped out in the sports dollar and is already pretty fickle anyway, and Raleigh really isn't big enough on its own for 82 home games in the dead heat of muggy summer nights.

Raleigh-Durham is a larger metro than Milwaukee and isn't much smaller than Cincinnati and the Las Vegas everyone is obsessed with. And that is with a hobbled CSA that has lost counties to neighboring CSA's (Wilson to Rocky Mount, Harnett to Fayetteville). The Nielsen DMA ranks have them even higher.

That and it's out of market for the Braves and the Orioles/Nationals have done nothing to make their claim worthwhile. Raleigh would be a gamble but a good gamble.

 

[mundyc3]

Major-league deal: A’s to purchase land near Strip for new ballpark

A’s President Dave Kaval said a $1.5 billion, 30,000-seat, partially retractable roof stadium would be built on the site west of teh Las vegas Strip.

www.reviewjournal.com

A's to Vegas coming much closer to reality.

 

[HisIceness]

Raleigh-Durham is a larger metro than Milwaukee and isn't much smaller than Cincinnati and the Las Vegas everyone is obsessed with. And that is with a hobbled CSA that has lost counties to neighboring CSA's (Wilson to Rocky Mount, Harnett to Fayetteville). The Nielsen DMA ranks have them even higher.

That and it's out of market for the Braves and the Orioles/Nationals have done nothing to make their claim worthwhile. Raleigh would be a gamble but a good gamble.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I'd rather Raleigh get this hypothetical team though just so I don't have to help foot the bill for a stadium.

But if people think Tampa is a "bad" market, I'm not sure why they think the Carolinas would be any better. The only vacant market that I personally think makes sense is Montreal.

 

[KevFu]

I posted this in another thread (Salt Lake) about the whole "Fan dollar" market saturation thing...

Using gate-receipts numbers for the mid-sized markets in each sport, and taking the average for each sport in "mid-sized markets," and the actual for each local team... here's the "cost per person" in the market for tickets if each city gets an MLB expansion team.

40.78 Montreal (It's in USD)
48.09 Portland
62.63 Salt Lake City
75.75 Charlotte
111.97 Nashville
133.00 Las Vegas

Las Vegas is a bit unfair because their fans gave their teams $62 million dollars more than the average mid-sized market in their sports.

For comparison's sake... here's actual with no expansion teams:

35.00 San Diego (Who started throwing around $300m contracts when the Chargers left)
52.89 Seattle
56.31 Winnipeg
58.39 Tampa
58.91 Cleveland
67.94 St. Louis
70.52 Pittsburgh
71.85 Buffalo
83.15 Milwaukee

And of course, Austin would be $44 for an MLB team, $29 for an NHL team.